Mystic Theurge 20 level class.


Homebrew and House Rules


I've thought about creating this for a while, and this thread finally made me do it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's OP right now and I'd like to know if there's any way I can make it better. Also if you have the time you might want go check out that thread because s/he also wants help making a mystic theurge class. Anyway:

Mystic Theurge

[Insert Flavour Text here.]

[Insert Role here.]

Alignment: A mystic theurge's alignment must be within one step of his deity's, if any. They are usually neutral.

Starting Wealth:

Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device(?) (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: Mystic Theurge
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special (Spells per Day) 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcane Bond, magic domain, orisons, Scribe Scroll 3 1+1 - - - - - - - -
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 4 2+1 - - - - - - - -
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 4 2+1 1+1 - - - - - - -
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 - - - - - - -
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - - -
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 4 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - - -
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - -
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - -
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - -
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - -
11 +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - -
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - -
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - -
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - -
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 -
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 -
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Spell Synthesis 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1

Class Features
The following are the class features for the mystic theurge.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency
Mystic Theurge's are proficient with all simple weapons, but not with any type of armour or shield. Armour interferes with a mystic theurge's movements, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells
A mystic theurge casts both arcane and divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list and the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A mystic theurge must choose and prepare spells ahead of time. To learn(?), prepare, or cast a spell from the cleric spell list, a mystic theurge must have a wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. To learn(?), prepare, or cast a spell for the sorcerer/wizard spell list, a mystic theurge must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mystic theurge's spell is 10 + the spell level + the mystic theurge's intelligence or wisdom modifier (intelligence for spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and wisdom for spells from the cleric spell list).
Like other spellcasters, a mystic theurge can cast only a certain amount of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Mystic Theurge. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high intelligence or wisdom score, whichever is highest (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

A mystic theurge must spend 1 hour each day [studying his spell book in quiet contemplation or supplication] to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a mystic theurge can prepare spells. A mystic theurge may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list and sorcerer/wizard spell list [if he doesn't have a spellbook], provided that she can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation [and/or study].

[Not sure if they get a spellbook or do it like a cleric…]

Magic Domain
[Not sure if they actually get a domain.] At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains the Magic Domain and both the Arcane and Divine subdomain, but you lose both the hand of the acolyte and the dispelling touch abilities and gain both the arcane beacon and divine vessel abilities. If you have a deity, it must be one who has the Magic domain. The mystic theurge's effective cleric level is equal to his mystic theurge level. [Might instead do it as you get either the arcane beacon or the divine vessel ability, or you can jut choose to have the base domain or the base and one of the subdomains or something]

Arcane Bond
[Not sure if they actually get an arcane bond. Maybe something similar?] At 1st level, mystic theurge's form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This ability functions like the wizard's ability of the same name. A mystic theurge's effective wizard level is equal to [half or something?] his mystic theurge level [(minimum 1)].

Orisons/Cantrips
Mystic Theurge's can prepare a number of orisons/cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Mystic Theurge under "Spells per day." These spells are treated like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Scribe Scroll
At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

Bonus Langauges
A mystic theurge's bonus language options include Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal, and Draconic (the languages of good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil outsiders, and dragons, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

[Not sure if they should get bonus feats. Probably not.]

[Combined Spells will not get added as it is right now because it doesn't work with the class at this current point in time.]

Spell Synthesis
At 20th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from his cleric spell list and one from his sorcerer/wizard spell list, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. The mystic theurge can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a -2 penalty on saves made against each spell. The mystic theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells. A mystic theurge may use this ability once per day. [Maybe have it as just two spells at the same time? Other than that, it falls into the same hole as combined spells because of how spells work for this class.]

Things in square brackets [] are like editors notes or whatever. They're just things I might add in or get rid of, not the actual classes things.

I'd like to know what you guys think. Any improvements you might have would be much appreciated.


I kinda replied in THAT OTHER thead, but:

* slash the domain, it is pointless the extra spells seem to make it pointless to be a wizard if you can just be a cleric and wizard rolled into one.

* Why simple weapons, just keep wizard proficiencies.

* Decrease the number of spells by 1 each spell level.

* Give bonus spells for both wisdom and intelligence, bonus spells for wisdom are divine spells drawn from the cleric list, bonus spells for intelligence daw from the wizard spell list.

* Add powers and bonus feats similar to the universalist wizard, as a decent starting point.


I'd add in combined spells somehow but that is fairly pointless and spell synthesis would at this point not be needed since it can compare really well to the wizard already. So rewriting combined spells to fit this class:

Combined Spells:

You can combine lower level spells to prepare a higher level spell.

You sacrifice a number of spell levels equal to the new spell's lvl +1, you can only use this ability when preparing spells following the normal limitations for preparing divine or arcane spells. You can use either arcane or divine spell slots (which you might get through high ability scores) but can only use this ability 1/day starting at 5th lvl, at 13th lvl you can use this ability 2/day.

* Bonus spells would increase the lower level spells faster than higher level spells at some point which fits with the original MT. Combined spells helps make sure you can actually prepare 8th or 9th lvl spells when you reach 15th or 17th lvl without bonus spells of those levels. At first glance it is a little bit more powerful/versatile than a universalist wizard, but frankly I never see those in my games.

I'd also add the aura ability, possibly replace the bonus feats with abilities:

1st hand of the apprentice, using either wisdom or intelligence.

5th combined spells as above

8th spontaneous metamagic, as universalist wizard

10th bonus feat / discovery as wizard

15th spell synthesis, as mystic theurge up to 6th lvl spells, increasing to 7th lvl spells at lvl 17 and 8th lvl spells at lvl 19.

20th Combined spells do not cost an extra spell level and bonus spells from wisdom and intelligence can be either divine or arcane. You can use intelligence or wisdom for arcane or divine spells whichever is higher for the purpose of concentration checks, spell DCs and other variables to determine the effect of a cast spell.


AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* slash the domain, it is pointless the extra spells seem to make it pointless to be a wizard if you can just be a cleric and wizard rolled into one.

I'll slash it, for now. If it becomes weaker down the line (unlikely), I might add it or something very similar back in. But for now, I agree we probably don't need it.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Why simple weapons, just keep wizard proficiencies.

That.. is a good point. Will do.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Decrease the number of spells by 1 each spell level.

Like I said before, the diminished spellcasting thing (or something like it). This will probably be for the best.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Give bonus spells for both wisdom and intelligence, bonus spells for wisdom are divine spells drawn from the cleric list, bonus spells for intelligence daw from the wizard spell list.

That sounds better.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Add powers and bonus feats similar to the universalist wizard, as a decent starting point.

That sounds good. Maybe you can choose between having the universalist arcane school or the magic domain without its bonus spells (and/or it's subdomains as well)? Possibly both? Maybe/maybe not. Probably not both...

I don't know what you mean by "bonus feats" though. Do you mean like Wizard bonus feats?


Yes, I meant wizard bonus feats. I thought it was easiest and most fitting to modle it after the universalist wizard with some adjustments. Since it comes closest to what you want to accomplish.

EDIT: I gave a few more suggestions above your post. Just kinda tossing ideas out there but it seems to look pretty decent at first glance, possibly have a few more options and/or shift some options around.


Umm, wow. Thanks. Those are really damn good ideas. I mean really good ideas. Bloody hell they are going straight into the class. But, I'm going to bed now. I'll add in the stuff tomorrow and post it here when I hop on my computer. See you then!


I'm not sure why two threads are needed, but I'll be sure to be checking both.

Liberty's Edge

Not sure why we have two threads either, but since this was mentioned in the other thread, I figured it was worth mentioning here as well ...

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Where's Marc Radle with a link to the New Paths Compendium???.

The New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press has indeed officially been announced :)

The New Paths Compendium collects all the New Paths classes into a brand new print/pdf book with a completely new layout and organization - the classes themselves are all together in a Classes chapter, all the archetypes and spells get their own chapters, as do all the feats (close to 100 of 'em!)

In addition, there are a number of cool, brand-new things inside - 2 of which are exclusive to this book, including the theurge, a base class that combines arcane and divine in new and interesting ways!

New Paths Compendium includes:

  • All the New Path classes, including the theurge, savant and skin-changer
  • 28 new archetypes for monks, ninjas, gunslingers, barbarians, fighters, clerics, and 7 Compendium classes
  • 7 tracking sheets for animal companions, favored enemies, prepared spells, summoned monsters and more
  • 20 new spells for druids, rangers, shaman, and more
  • Almost 100 new feats for new and existing classes

Please be sure to check out the book and the new Theurgeclass in particar! :)


Now that you bring it up, I don't know either... Well if we have two threads that means twice the thinking, r-right? Right?

Now this time I will hopefully get to sleep :/


Marc Radle wrote:

Not sure why we have two threads either, but since this was mentioned in the other thread, I figured it was worth mentioning here as well ...

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Where's Marc Radle with a link to the New Paths Compendium???.

The New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press has indeed officially been announced :)

The New Paths Compendium collects all the New Paths classes into a brand new print/pdf book with a completely new layout and organization - the classes themselves are all together in a Classes chapter, all the archetypes and spells get their own chapters, as do all the feats (close to 100 of 'em!)

In addition, there are a number of cool, brand-new things inside - 2 of which are exclusive to this book, including the theurge, a base class that combines arcane and divine in new and interesting ways!

New Paths Compendium includes:

  • All the New Path classes, including the theurge, savant and skin-changer
  • 28 new archetypes for monks, ninjas, gunslingers, barbarians, fighters, clerics, and 7 Compendium classes
  • 7 tracking sheets for animal companions, favored enemies, prepared spells, summoned monsters and more
  • 20 new spells for druids, rangers, shaman, and more
  • Almost 100 new feats for new and existing classes

Please be sure to check out the book and the new Theurgeclass in particar! :)

Unfortunately I am not able to buy by creditcard, having a creditcard is just not very practical in the netherlands. Guess I'll have to pass this one up, I was curious about some of the classes though.

Liberty's Edge

The New Paths Compendium as also available directly through the Kobold Press store:
http://www.koboldquarterly.com/kqstore/index.phpmain_page=product_info& cPath=6&products_id=224

and I think you can use PayPal there if that helps ...


Marc Radle wrote:

The New Paths Compendium as also available directly through the Kobold Press store:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/kqstore/index.phpmain_page=product_info& cPath=6&products_id=224

and I think you can use PayPal there if that helps ...

I have used paypal once or twice in the past not the most user friendly for me but it works !


Totally and completely overpowered at the moment. Getting 9th level spells from both wizard and cleric lists is disgustingly strong, and with its spell list, this class is too good even if you strip from it all other class features.

Keep in mind, since this class combines two spells lists into one, it also prestiges incredibly well, especially with a lack of class features.

I'd personally suggest greatly increasing spells per day, since that's a common result of being a mystic theurge, up to 8 or so for each level, but restrict the class to 6th level spells. You could be a lot more generous with class features, and even consolidate both casting stats into one if you went this route.

If you absolutely must give the class dual 9ths, I'd say reduce the number of spells per day by one, use sorcerer progression for gaining new spells levels, and strip all class features except the magic domain. (With two first level powers), scribe scroll, and the capstone. At minimum.


Stark_ wrote:

Totally and completely overpowered at the moment. Getting 9th level spells from both wizard and cleric lists is disgustingly strong, and with its spell list, this class is too good even if you strip from it all other class features.

Keep in mind, since this class combines two spells lists into one, it also prestiges incredibly well, especially with a lack of class features.

I'd personally suggest greatly increasing spells per day, since that's a common result of being a mystic theurge, up to 8 or so for each level, but restrict the class to 6th level spells. You could be a lot more generous with class features, and even consolidate both casting stats into one if you went this route.

If you absolutely must give the class dual 9ths, I'd say reduce the number of spells per day by one, use sorcerer progression for gaining new spells levels, and strip all class features except the magic domain. (With two first level powers), scribe scroll, and the capstone. At minimum.

Combining spell lists might seem very impressive but I think in practice it is hardly that shocking, especially with all the weaknesses of the wizard. The wizards spells are generally superior to the clerics and really adds a bit only in some fields.

I redid the spell progression, it now has slower spell access like the sorcerer, where it has 0 spells of a level it does not get any spells unless it has bonus spells of that level:

1 0 — — — — — — — —
2 1 — — — — — — — —
3 2 — — — — — — — —
4 3 0 — — — — — — —
5 3 1 — — — — — — —
6 3 2 0 — — — — — —
7 3 3 1 — — — — — —
8 3 3 2 0 — — — — —
9 3 3 3 1 — — — — —
10 3 3 3 2 0 — — — —
11 3 3 3 3 1 — — — —
12 3 3 3 3 2 0 — — —
13 3 3 3 3 3 1 — — —
14 3 3 3 3 3 2 0 — —
15 3 3 3 3 3 3 1 — —
16 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 0 —
17 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 1 —
18 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 0
19 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 1
20 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3

Basically less spells than a wizard or cleric without specialization or domains, but it gets bonus spells from wisdom (divine) and intelligence
(arcane) both.

lvl 1 aura, hand of the apprentice, cantrip, orison
lvl 2 scribe scroll
lvl 3 +1 UMD, spellcraft
lvl 4 spont healing (sacrifice divine spell 1 lvl higher, cast cure)
lvl 5 bonus feat (as wizard)
lvl 6 -
lvl 7 +2 UMD, spellcraft
lvl 8 combined magic 1/day
lvl 9 spell synthesis (lvl 1)
lvl 10 meta magic mastery (1,+1 per 2 levels over 10th)
lvl 11 spell synthesis (lvl 2)
lvl 12 +3 UMD, spellcraft
lvl 13 spell synthesis (lvl 3)
lvl 14 -
lvl 15 spell synthesis (lvl 5)
lvl 16 combined magic 2/day
lvl 17 spell synthesis (lvl 6)
lvl 18 +4 UMD, spellcraft
lvl 19 spell synthesis (lvl 7)
lvl 20 Dual Magic Mastery


Ok I'm awake now, will change soon. I'll take advice from both of, and I'll make it less OP. I was just combining wizard and cleric (basically), I hadn't really balanced it in any way yet and I will post what I come up with (which will most likely contain both your advices). Thanks!


lvl 1 aura, domain (granted powers only), cantrip, orison, Scribe scroll
lvl 2 Item lore(1/2 lvl to UMD checks and checks to identify items)
lvl 3 Spontaneous Healing 1/day (as cleric)
lvl 4
lvl 5 Bonus feat (as wizard)
lvl 6 Combined Magic 1/day
lvl 7
lvl 8 Spontaneous Healing 2/day
lvl 9
lvl 10 Bonus feat
lvl 11 Lesser spell synthesis (up to 2nd lvl)
lvl 12 Combined Magic 2/day
lvl 13 Spontaneous Healing 3/day
lvl 14 Spell synthesis (up to 4th lvl, -1 saves, +1 CL checks)
lvl 15 Bonus feat
lvl 16
lvl 17 Greater spell synthesis (up to 6th lvl, -2 saves, +2 CL checks)
lvl 18 Spontaneous Healing 4/day
lvl 19
lvl 20 Bonus feat, Dual Magic Mastery

Cleaned it up a bit and lowered power a bit, along with sorcerer progression on spells (basically sorcerer sells per day -3) and bonus spells for both wisdom and intelligence, I think it is actually quite decent.

I would like to restrict access to divine magic though, perhaps have the MT keep a prayerbook with similar mechanics as a spellbook ?

Liberty's Edge

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
I would like to restrict access to divine magic though, perhaps have the MT keep a prayerbook with similar mechanics as a spellbook ?

Something tells me you will REALLY like the Theurge in the The New Paths Compendium then ... :)


Ok, I've updated it a bit and I hope you like this one more:

Mystic Theurge
Alignment: A mystic theurge's alignment must be within one step of his deity's, if any. They are usually neutral, and they usually worship Nethys.
Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: Mystic Theurge (Slow progression (1/2 BAB), good will, bad fort and ref. Spells per day are basically Sorcerer spells per day -3, with 2 0th level spells at 1st and 3 every other level.)

1st Aura, orisons/cantrips, Theurgy, theurgy domain
2nd Scribe Scroll
3rd Hand of the Theurge
4th Combined Spells 1/day
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
10th Magical Mastery
11th Spell Synthesis 1/day
12th
13th Combined Spells 2/day
14th
15th Spell Synthesis 2/day
16th
17th
18th
19th Spell Synthesis 3/day
20th True Theurge

Class Features
The following are the class features for the mystic theurge.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency
Mystic Theurges are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armour or shield. Armour interferes with a mystic theurge's movements, which can cause his arcane spells with somatic components to fail.
Spells
A mystic theurge casts both arcane and divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list and the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A mystic theurge must choose and prepare spells ahead of time. To prepare or cast a spell from the cleric spell list, a mystic theurge must have a wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. To prepare or cast a spell for the sorcerer/wizard spell list, a mystic theurge must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mystic theurge's spell is 10 + the spell level + the mystic theurge's intelligence or wisdom modifier (intelligence for spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and wisdom for spells from the cleric spell list).
Like other spellcasters, a mystic theurge can cast only a certain amount of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Mystic Theurge. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day from the sorcerer/wizard spell list if he has a Intelligence score, and bonus spells per day from the cleric spell list if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A mystic theurge must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a mystic theurge can prepare spells. A mystic theurge may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list and sorcerer/wizard spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.
Aura
A mystic theurge of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see detect evil for details).
Theurgy
At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains Theurgy as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet its prerequisites.
Theurgy Domain
At 1st level, the mystic theurge gains the Arcane Beacon and Divine Vessel powers from the arcane and divine subdomains, respectively. They share the same daily usage (3 + Wisdom modifier per day).
Orisons/Cantrips
Mystic Theurge's can prepare a number of orisons/cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Mystic Theurge under "Spells per day." These spells are treated like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.
Scribe Scroll
At 2nd level, a mystic theurge gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.
Bonus Langauges
A mystic theurge's bonus language options include Draconic, Abyssal, Celestial, and Infernal (the languages of dragons and good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil outsiders, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.
Hand of the Theurge
At 3rd level, you can cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier, whichever one is higher (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier, whichever one is higher.
Combined Spells
At 4th level, when preparing your daily spell allotment, you may sacrifice lower level spell to prepare a higher level spell. When doing so, a mystic theurge sacrifices a number of spell levels equal to the new spell's level +1. You can sacrifice either arcane or divine spell slots (including bonus spell slots) when using this ability. You may use this ability once per day at 4th, and an additional time per day at 13th.
Magical Mastery
At 10th level, you can apply any one metamagic feat that you know to a spell you are about to cast. This does not alter the level of the spell or the casting time. You can use this ability once per day at 10th level and one additional time per day for every two mystic theurge levels you possess beyond 10th. Any time you use this ability to apply a metamagic feat that increases the spell level by more than 1, you must use an additional daily usage for each level above 1 that the feat adds to the spell. Even though this ability does not modify the spell's actual level, you cannot use this ability to cast a spell whose modified spell level would be above the level of the highest-level spell that you are capable of casting. You may instead expend two daily uses of this ability to use a targeted dispel magic effect as a melee touch attack.
Spell Synthesis
At 11th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from the cleric spell list and one from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. The mystic theurge can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a –2 penalty on saves made against each spell. The mystic theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells. A mystic theurge may use this ability once per day at 11th, and an additional time per day every 4 levels, to a maximum of 3 times per day at 19th.
True Theurge
At 20th level, you become a true master of both arcane and divine magic. You may use you Intelligence or Wisdom score to determine how both your arcane and divine spells work, whichever one is higher. This includes spell DC, concentration checks, and other variables that determine the effect of a cast spell. This also means that you may use your Intelligence score in place of your Wisdom score when determining what bonus spells you receive from the cleric spell list, and vice verse (Wisdom instead of your Intelligence to determine bonus spells from sorcerer/wizard spell list). In addition, when using your combined spells ability, it does not cost an extra spell level.

THINGS THAT I MIGHT CHANGE:
I want to keep Spell Synthesis the way it is, but I might change around Combined spells so that its 2/day at 12th and 3/day at 20th. Maybe/maybe not. The class seems strong enough already.
I changed Scribe Scroll so that you get it at 2nd level, so that you don't get 2 bonus feats at first, and Theurge is staying there for the foreseeable future. Might get Scribe Scroll at a later level even, or maybe not at all.
I've decided to give the Arcane Beacon and Divine Vessel powers a shared daily usage. I don't see a problem here, but if other do I might change it to separate daily uses. Might even get rid of it altogether if the class needs nerfing.
I don't know if it should get bonus feats at 5th, 10th and 15th and 20th (like a wizard). The class seems strong enough already.
I'm tossing around the idea of a Spellbook/Prayerbook, but I'm leaning away from giving the class one. Might weaken the class so that it's more balanced, though I probably won't give them one unless I really have to.
I don't know if I should give it a UMD bonus because I don't really see the class as being that kind of class. If I ever do give it a skill bonus it'll be knowledge arcana and/or religion, and/or spellcraft. I might even get rid of UMD as a class skill, because I don't really see the class being heavy magic device users, but that could just be me.
I don't know if I should give it spontaneous casting like a cleric (cure and inflict). The class seems strong enough already.

I hope you liked it. As a heads up, I won't have internet for a couple hours, so don't think I'm ignoring you or something if you comment on it within that time.


* Theurgy feat is a nice addition.

* The MT is quite useless the first 2 levels without school powers, few spells, no channeling or domain powers. For that reason I'd rather see Hand of the theurge at 1st level.

* Cantrips and orisons, I would keep cantrips and orisons usable higher since they do not benefit from the bonus spells they just lose there. Advance them as a wizard being able to pick either orisons or cantrips.

* spell synthesis by the MT was only possible at lvl 16 and by then it could only cast lvl 7 spells. I think the ability is a bit strong as it is. Also I would like the MT to use it's lower lvl spell slots more efficiently rather than go nova.

Other:

* I'd not change to combined spells 3/day, it is not meant to have access to more high level spells than a wizard or cleric. honestly I was hesitant to increase it to 2/day for that reason, but I tink that is fine.

* I'd give Hand of the Theurge at 1st, Theurge bonus feat at 2nd, Scribe scroll 3rd. (Theurge at 2nd lvl is fine, other classes can only use it at 3rd at earliest and with few spell slots I do not think anyone wants to use it at 1st lvl)

* I am unsure of the prayerbook/spellbook idea, but it is a possible way to nerve it a bit in some ways without shutting down potential.

* Bonus feats might not be needed, I would like the mystic theurge to have access to Arcane Discoveries as a wizard though.

* You are probably right about UMD, the original MT PrC doesnt have it either.

* I agree spontaneous cure is not needed, I was looking to add a little party support there.


AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* The MT is quite useless the first 2 levels without school powers, few spells, no channeling or domain powers. For that reason I'd rather see Hand of the theurge at 1st level.

I does have both the arcane and divine subdomain powers at 1st. I made hand of the theurge a 3rd level things because I made Magical Mastery a 10th level thing, but that decision is not set in stone and I might change it.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* Cantrips and orisons, I would keep cantrips and orisons usable higher since they do not benefit from the bonus spells they just lose there. Advance them as a wizard being able to pick either orisons or cantrips.

Cantrips/Orisons is you can prepare that many spells and not expend them, from either spell list. Do you mean just let them have 3 at 1st and 4 every other level? The reason I named it cantrips/orisons is because it's both at the same time (that and I haven't come up with a better, singular word name yet).

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* spell synthesis by the MT was only possible at lvl 16 and by then it could only cast lvl 7 spells. I think the ability is a bit strong as it is. Also I would like the MT to use it's lower lvl spell slots more efficiently rather than go nova.

Looking back, 11th is pretty powerful. I do want to keep it, but I will probably move it to a later level. Maybe move it to 15th and 2/day at 19th?

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* I'd not change to combined spells 3/day, it is not meant to have access to more high level spells than a wizard or cleric. honestly I was hesitant to increase it to 2/day for that reason, but I tink that is fine.

Do you mean spell synthesis? because combined spells only goes up to 2/day...

If you do mean spell synthesis, then like I said before I might move it to a later level.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* I'd give Hand of the Theurge at 1st, Theurge bonus feat at 2nd, Scribe scroll 3rd. (Theurge at 2nd lvl is fine, other classes can only use it at 3rd at earliest and with few spell slots I do not think anyone wants to use it at 1st lvl)

This does seem like the better option.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* I am unsure of the prayerbook/spellbook idea, but it is a possible way to nerve it a bit in some ways without shutting down potential.

If I do this, then I'm thinking they would either get 3 bonus spells each level, or 2 bonus spells from each spell list.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* Bonus feats might not be needed, I would like the mystic theurge to have access to Arcane Discoveries as a wizard though.

Maybe they can get an arcane discovery instead of a feat, using your mystic theurge levels as your wizard levels for determining if you can get them? That might be alright, but I would like some sort of divine magic alternative.

Liberty's Edge

Hope no one minds the quick update - the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press is now off of preorder, in stock and ready to start shipping (there are PDF, Print and PDF/Print bundle options)! Please check out the Theurge class and let me know what you think :)

Thanks!!!

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