5-10 Where Mammoths Dare Not Tread


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Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

First of all, this scenario looks really cool. It's much more interesting than the last scenario we went to the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. (Although characters who got the boon from Shades of Ice Part 3 could be helpful. I plan on giving a small circumstance bonus for having the boon to diplo checks.)

That being said, I'm looking at the Sakorian Dead encounter (D1), and it looks like there's a problem logistically. I like the idea that it's basically incorporeal creatures riding corporeal mammoths, however the mammoths are 15ft tall because they're huge creatures. This means that the riders are going to be in the 4th square from the ground, out of reach of anything not huge standing on the ground and therefore not able to attack most parties. Once they get off their mount, they regain their sunlight powerlessness weakness which staggers them, severely limiting their options. Am I interpreting this correctly, or are they supposed to stay mounted and still be able to attack?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Haven't read the scenario yet, but if rider and mount are assumed to take up the same space in a 2d world, I would say the same is true of the 3d world as well.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andrew Christian wrote:
Haven't read the scenario yet, but if rider and mount are assumed to take up the same space in a 2d world, I would say the same is true of the 3d world as well.

Hm. I thought the higher ground provision in the mounted combat rules specified that you were physically on top of your mount, but now that I go back and read them that appears to not be the case. Man, mounted combat is weird.

Thanks.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

You do get the higher ground bonus when mounted. Think that's in the ride skill?

But cinematically you see riders in movies hanging onto the side of the horse while getting almost full cover from the mount and shooting under the neck.

Leaning down and picking something up off the ground.

Now granted, doing this for a full 15' on a huge mount if you are not large stretches even the Hollywood/"its magic" a bit.

Agreed mounted combat takes all the rules, turns them on their head, and doesn't fully define how it works.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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Realm of the Mammoth Lords wrote:
Hrungara — the point beyond which the mammoths do not go willingly...

The first scenario I played with my barbarian from the northern realms was The Frostfur Captives. As we neared the end of our trek through the winter wonderland, we came upon a peculiar [redacted]. Being the only one to make his perception check, Rukk held up a hand to stop his party from advancing further. "Hrungara," he whispered. "Danger lies ahead."

As long as this scenario gives me another opportunity to use the one of the only Kellid phrases I know, I'll be happy.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Realm of the Mammoth Lords wrote:
Hrungara — the point beyond which the mammoths do not go willingly...

The first scenario I played with my barbarian from the northern realms was The Frostfur Captives. As we neared the end of our trek through the winter wonderland, we came upon a peculiar [redacted]. Being the only one to make his perception check, Rukk held up a hand to stop his party from advancing further. "Hrungara," he whispered. "Danger lies ahead."

As long as this scenario gives me another opportunity to use the one of the only Kellid phrases I know, I'll be happy.

So, uh, funny thing about that phrase...

Just finished running this - it was awesome. I'll report back when I'm done with chronicle sheets.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

First some observations on prepping -

Holy crap this is a lot of prepping. In order to be fully prepped to run this, you have to have 6 encounters ready to go since you won’t be sure which way your party is going to go, and a lot of them aren’t straightforward. NEVER LET ANYONE RUN THIS MOD COLD. This has been super-true in Season 5, but this scenario is the prime example of it. Thanock Sundered Bear is an amazing stat block now that I’ve researched everything, but I wouldn’t want to have run him cold. There’s way too many moving parts. That being said, I want someone to attack him now so I can run him. Grapple all the things!

Anyway, I threw my giant pdf/word document of prep up on the google drive, so help yourselves! And if anything’s wrong with it let me know.

Onto the game – we had:
Stegosaurus 10 (who happened to bring along a sorcerer/oracle)
Aldori Swordlord 9
Inquisitor/Rogue 7
Staff Magus 8
Cleric of Iomedae 9
Rounds to 9, so high tier with 4 player adjustment!

Game Details:
Party gets to the vrocks/t-rex. T-rex smells tasty tasty stegosaurus, so attacks when it gets too close. First bite scares the living bejeezus out of the party as it knocks the stegosaurus down to low health, but the stegosaurus manages to finish off the t-rex before the t-rex can eat the stegosaurus. Meanwhile the rest of the party is occupied by the vrocks, who are complaining via telepathy that the party interrupted all their fun. After a while the party has buffed their AC enough that the vrocks can’t get any meaningful attacks off, so I called it there since the end was going to be grindy.

After an interesting bit of roleplay of trying to understand broken common (made harder by the fact that this game was online), the party heads up to Tolguth. It’s noteworthy that a lot of the characters had played Shades of Ice Part 3 and had the boon from that, so I was giving anyone with that boon a +2 circumstance bonus to diplomacy. The players tried to figure out what kind of gift to give to the Tolguth elders. My thought on good gift was to give them something exotic like the wine or the chocolate, since they probably don’t get much of that up in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, but they went for the +2 cloak. They make this diplomacy check easily.

Before even checking out the three sites they pretty much agree that the spring doesn’t sound great, so they go to check out the town first. I tried to play up the eerie ghost town, and used the map from Village Square and let them explore a bit. After a bit of time in the town they decided to explore the caves. For this cave I used the Darklands folded, but if I were to do it again in real life I would just use Dragon’s Lair. They noticed the red winter tribe and got ready for their arrival, but quickly defused the situation and was brought to their leaders.

At the Red Winter Tribe camp, they missed the Diplo DC by 1, even with me giving them the +4 for giving a useful gift and with the diplomacer rolling twice and picking the highest. That’s the way the dice fall sometimes. They hear Thanock’s description of the demons, and the magus just barely makes his knowledge check to identify each, so I show the picture of each. Man are those some disgusting pictures. I got wonderful reactions from the players when I made them visible over roll20. They decide that the Kithangian would be easier, so they go there. Time is running low, so I skip the optional encounter. (which is a shame, it looks so cool. Hopefully when I run this again I will run it)

Onto the Kithangians! The aurochs charge over the blisters, causing them to explode for minor damage. (Evasion helps) One Kithangian grabs the sorceress riding her dinosaur, and the other tries summoning a buddy and fails. I throw out all 6 quickened unnatural lusts, both baleful polymorphs and 3 rounds of grappling Will saves, and the players manage to make all of them. The only failed save was on one poison attempt, and the player made both of their saves versus the poison on recovery. The players had a lot of trouble hitting it, but the sorceress went around with a wand of bless weapon, and everyone else spent a round or two buffing which seemed to help. The stegosaurus was flying in the air attacking air walking Kithangians. I would not want to be underneath them while that was going on.

The players finish up the fight, but then forget to loot the place. Hurt them on gold a bit. Probably not the best chronicle sheet they’ve ever received with two items, partial gold and 1 xp, but a success.


Some notes:

The idea behind this scenario is really cool, and I like the fact that we’re choosing what site the Pathfinders build their outpost on. However, I felt like each site could’ve used a little more information. That being said, here’s hoping that we choose the abandoned town – I want to know what caused the disappearance!

The gifts are a really cool idea. There should be more things like this in scenarios. However, it would be nice if they specified anywhere in the scenario what gifts gave better bonuses. My inclination right now is to go with luxuries for Tolguth and useful items for Red Winter, but I would like to know if that’s an actual thing.

Dear god unnatural lust is a creepy spell. I realized afterwards that I could’ve used it on the stegosaurus if I wanted. Even with the +4 bonus it might have been more likely to stick that some of the PCs. And that’s just a creepy mental picture. Even without using it against animal companions it still gives me the shivers.

We could’ve used a map as to where all the encounter sites are in relationship to each other. I ended up drawing a quick abstract map for my players, but an actual map would be much appreciated.

We seem to really be pushing Survival in season 5. I like it – otherwise there was no real use for survival in an organization that really feels like it should be a priority.

Overall, this was a good scenario – would run again. It’s not the best thing in Season 5, but it’s still a strong and challenging scenario. It just may be harder to GM than it is to play.

Dark Archive 2/5

I am trying to fix up a map for this for when I gm it, where do you think Tolgoth might be in the realm? My hunch is that it would be between The Thundersteps, Ginji Mesa and Hillcross.

The Exchange 5/5

Tolguth is on the Inner Sea map. Do you own the Inner Sea World Guide? Foothills of the Tusk Mountains, northeast corner of the border.

I ran this on Saturday for a between tier group of five players, mostly casters with an eidolon frontline. They played the high tier with the 4-player adjustment and stomped it hard. Nothing has more than 10 points of fire resistance and this was a fireball-happy group. The worst-planned encounter was the kithangian. They were warned by the Red Winter tribesmen about the beast demon. It was in the white aurochs form, attempting to lure the Pathfinders deeper into the Worldwound. A player asked how far away it was, and I gave them the bit about how it allows them to get as close as 500 feet before somehow increasing the distance. They hatched a plan to use a combo of fireballs and dimension door with the grappling eidolon crushing its CMD. The advanced kithangian lasted one round. The PCs never even faced The Sarkorian Dead or The Proving encounters as a result. Why would they know those encounters even existed? They had their trophy. On to the gibrileth. That one gave them the most trouble, mostly due to the casters' low Fort bonus versus stinking cloud. The fight lasted four rounds. There was some housekeeping due to two cases of Demonfever (nasty disease, that) but it felt like a 3.5 hour cakewalk.

I won't write a review until I run this for another group. There were some circumstances that made the scenario very weak against distance/mobile offenders.

I agree with James that it would have been helpful had the three sites been fleshed out more. It seems like we are not meant to know more about the sites because one will be featured in a later scenario. What if a druid had cast commune with nature? There's going to be table variation. For what it's worth my group chose the town.

Dark Archive 2/5

Thank you Doug! I need to dig out that PDF then. I just assumed the map that was in THe People of the North would have it on there if it existed. I guess I was wrong.

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

The rider effectively occupies any particular square that its mount does, but it doesn't gain any additional reach as a result. Therefore, the mammoth mounts have considerable reach, but the incorporeal riders still only have 5-ft. reach. They can attack anything that is adjacent to the mammoth mount, and each should not be at risk of sunlight powerlessness unless its mammoth mount is destroyed.

Hrungara? Nope, can't imagine that ever coming up in this scenario.

*Innocent whistling*

I too am excited to see which campsite the PCs choose.

4/5 RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Thanks, everybody, for taking the time to share some feedback.

In an earlier draft of the scenario, I chewed up a lot of my available word count on the Tolguth negotiation. I had to trim back a bit of it and it seems that the gift-giving preferences got a little lost in the self-edit. My earlier notes on the matter are behind the spoiler.

Gifts:
The Kellids (both Tolguth and the Red Winter) appreciate once-off gifts, but also put value on securing long-term trade agreements. So, "there's more where that came from" styled negotiations definitely have a place. That said:


  • Vanna prefers items that offer clear benefits when fighting demons (cold iron weapons)
  • Traros prefers items that help defend or protect against the secondary damage left by demons and their long-term effects (alchemical remedies and potions)
  • Olovon prefers items that speak of the greater world (regional specialties)
  • Thanock has no time for luxuries and his preferences closely resemble a combinations of Traros and Vanna's preferences

As for powerful PC magic:
This is an interesting one, as the use of powerful magic has some impact on social encounters early during the scenario. Using magic to defeat that which no living Kellid has defeated before, for example, should make for interesting role playing opportunities, such as a debrief with the Red Winter tribe.

Dark Archive 2/5

@ Doug : The location on that map makes much more sense than where I had it. Thank you for the directions!

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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I prepped and ran this last night! Table played at the 7-8 subtier and had a great time. Four new players, and they all gobbled it up. Here were some quotes from the new guys.

"I carve out the dinosaur's head, and put it over my horses head, as a sign of my power to these savages." Hayato, referring to a pair of back to back critical hits that dropped the allosaurus on the first round, after it had pounced him.

"Like Hell I'm fighting those! I only have 5 CON left!" Reiko's response to another player, after withdrawing out of combat against the wraiths

"Wait, I get to play what now? Awesome!" 1d4 rounds after the player who was controlling Amiri was slain by a wraith

"That game was super legit. Hey [other new player], we should start up a Pathfinder group at home!" Reiko to Lirianne, after the game.

Something to note -- the formatting on page 23 is a little weird. While it looks like the "Scaling Encounter" sidebar is for encounter D3, it is actually for D2, as noted in it's title. The encounter adjustment for D3 is on page 26.

4/5

For the Spectral Mammoth Lords, should they be Advanced Spectres? A normal Spectre has 52 hp, vs the 68 hp specified in the stat block.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm looking forward to running this tomorrow for my VL's exiled barbarian. :)

4/5

Another nitpicky question:
The Red Winter Hunters (pg 16) say to use the Trapper from the GMG. The Trapper has a Badger animal companion. Should we include 2 of those in the encounter?

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

redward wrote:

Another nitpicky question:

The Red Winter Hunters (pg 16) say to use the Trapper from the GMG. The Trapper has a Badger animal companion. Should we include 2 of those in the encounter?

That must be text that didn't quite make it from my head to the keyboard. Please just give the GMG hunter the companion nature bond option instead. It doesn't make much sense to have a couple of trained badgers in that encounter.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

So, here is attempt #2 at posting this message (first one got swallowed by my iPad last night... too much flipping).

First of all, I'd like to thank the Jerall and the campaign staff for what looks to be another great scenario! This is one which even has some decent replay potential (given the multiple paths through it - though it would require GM credits for that).

I am going to be running this scenario next Monday for my V-C, both V-Ls, one of the most active local organizers, and two other GMs as a "slot 0" for Con of the North. Because of this, I really want to "get it right". So, I have a few (maybe more than a few?) questions to ask. Some of these are clarifications, some are a bit more. Note: I am running at sub-tier 10-11, which makes things even more complicated (not that I mind!)

So, what are people using for Mammoth minis?

I am going to use spoilers just to make it look shorter, even though this is a GM's thread.

A1. The Dinosaur and the Demon:

Since there are 3 Vrocks, who are tormenting the T-Rex for the first minute, I was wondering if it would be kosher for them to do their "Dance of Ruin". I could see the three of them spreading out around the dino, starting their dance... the dino would then respond to the lighting explosion by attacking that way (and then the next Vrock would finish). Seemed like a neat way to get the Vrocks to be able to do one of their signature moves!

C. The Red Winter Tribe:

The text states that this event happens after the PCs survey their second site. Since there is a strong possibility for combat, I was wondering what the location for the encounter would be. Is it in the site of the second survey, or on the road to the third site? Which map should we be using for this encounter? I do like James McTeague's ideas for the extra maps (though I don't have most of the ones he describes), but that does increase the number of maps needed substantially for this scenario. Also, just wanted to make sure I was placing the encounters on the proper location.

By the description, I was guessing that this was on the road. This would lead me to think I'd be using a more "wilderness" encounter site. It sort of matters, because the terrain can modify the encounter a lot!

Also on this encounter. When Dorok Bear's Claw is attacking, he gets 2 Claws at +21. Does this mean that he is using the prosthetic to attack with? Just checking for color purposes.

D1. The Sarkorian Dead:

From the discussions above, I assume that the the specters can attack anyone that is adjacent to the mammoth that they are riding. As Andy said above, seems a little "off" (cinematic vs realistic), but this is a game, so that's fine.

D2. The Proving Ground.:

This is mostly a reaction to Doug Miles... Since the Kithangian is watching the party, wouldn't it just use its at will Greater Teleport to get the heck out of Dodge if the party members try to pull a stunt like that? It makes a lot of sense that it would be fine with taunting the party into wasting spells, and then it would be gone! Also, couldn't you give the party a Kn: Religion check to give them a hint that it might be a Kellid Spirit Guide (as it is trying to mimic)? They already get the Sense Motive check to see that it wants them to follow it, so this would follow. Maybe prepare a small bit of boilerplate talking about how the tribes believe in spirit guides, etc...

One final note:
It appears that there is an error on the Chronicle... it lists the additional stuff for the higher sub-tier as "subtier 6-7" instead of 10-11. Should I just hand-edit this as needed?

Thanks for putting up with the rather long post.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

My table seemed to enjoy themselves Saturday, although I think I made a few choices that made things easier on them.

The tyrannosaurus took AoOs on the vrocks as they failed to acrobatics safely away. I should perhaps have had them be a bit more tactical, or at least end their movements out of the trees outside of the beasts reach. Since it doesn't have combat reflexes, the demons unwittingly opened up the threatened area for the PCs to move in. Over all, it seemed more cinematic with the 'rex swallowing one vrock whole only to have it claw its way out. Since we were playing with the 4-player adjustment, dance of ruin wasn't an option. Hitting the table with a gargantuan mini was great fun however. :)

4/5 RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Silbeg, I'll answer your questions based on my final submission. John might add a bit, based on decisions made during the scenario's development.

A1. The Dinosaur and the Demon::
Yes, the dance provides a great way to prompt an indecisive, yet knowledgeable party into action (fight or flight). And, just as TOZ wrote, in my latest run, the Rex swallowed one of the vrocks. The players enjoyed seeing it claw its way out of the beast's belly.

C. The Red Winter Tribe::
If you need a map, I found the Deep Forest (Back) flip-mat ideal for the encounter, with the indicated stumps serving as tundra shrubbery.

As for Dorok, yes, he attacks with his prosthetic (it functions as the second claw granted by his totem rage power).

D2. The Proving Ground::
I allowed my players a Kn. (local) check about Kellids and their reverence of spirit animals. Kn (religion) or similar should suffice too. You can build on the Red Winter's bear theme, earlier in the session, to further highlight it.

Have fun running the slot 0. Let us know how it goes.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Preparing this for real life, i just realized that Encounter D1 requires two copies of the Hellscapes map pack to properly represent. For this particular encounter it doesn't matter too much since it's pretty much open space, but please never require two copies of a map pack again. Map Packs are not dungeon tiles - I don't every want to have to buy a 2nd copy of a map pack in order to represent an encounter.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

I am confused by the following instructions for reporting:

5-10, p26 wrote:

If the PCs completed the scenario by defeating the Red Winter tribe in combat or through diplomacy, also check box D.

Ok, I get the combat part, but by diplomacy? I thought this'd were the two possibilities... You could fight (bad idea) or talk (good idea). But either solution seems to call for the same report?

Am I missing something?

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Silbeg, when I played, our group tried to reason with them but failed the Diplomacy DC by one. No fight broke out, we just went on with the adventure from there. Does the scenario imply that a fight should break out if the party fails the Diplomacy check?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

No, but failing the diplomacy check means the tribe will contest the Society's establishment of a base camp, failing the primary mission unless the party drives the tribe out. Slaying a demon would probably help, but just surveying the sites would not accomplish the mission.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

TOZ, I was thinking that this report was more about whether or not the tribe survived their encounter with the Pathfinders. There is a big difference for the eventual story line if the Red Winter clan survives and ally with the pathfinders, survive and don't ally, and are killed.

Failing the diplomacy check only does the following

5-10 p15 wrote:
If the PCs fail the Diplomacy check, Thanock and Velka remain unimpressed by the prospect of allying with the Society, but accept that an enemy of their enemy is at least a neighbor worth having. Building a lasting alliance with the Red Winter tribe would help the Pathfinders significantly in their upcoming expedition, but simply earning the tribe’s grudging permission to set up a camp by slaying a demon is sufficient to fulfill the Pathfinders’ mission.

So, there primary success does not rely on the successful diplomacy check.

5-10 p26 wrote:

Primary Success Condition

If the PCs successfully surveyed all three campsites, signaled Aram Zey to indicate the preferred site, and ensured through negotiation or violence that the Red Winter tribe would not contest the Pathfinder Society’s use of the land, award each PC 1 Prestige Point.

Secondary success is contingent on the diplomacy, and killing the gibrileth.

It just seems we are reporting two disparate ends on the same letter.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Huh, I was misremembering things then.

Silver Crusade 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, South Carolina—Greenville

James McTeague wrote:
Preparing this for real life, i just realized that Encounter D1 requires two copies of the Hellscapes map pack to properly represent. For this particular encounter it doesn't matter too much since it's pretty much open space, but please never require two copies of a map pack again. Map Packs are not dungeon tiles - I don't every want to have to buy a 2nd copy of a map pack in order to represent an encounter.

Are you sure? I think I was able to make it with four tiles from the pack. It was tough figuring out how they fit together with the samey-ness of each tile.

Re: the touch-attack goons on top of the mammoths. My idea was to describe them with incorporeal longspears. Mechanically they would function just like their touch attacks, and not really add any reach, just enough to attack targets adjacent to their mounts. I'm glad John chimed in that it indeed works that way.

As a miniatures-maven this scenario is a bit tricky. I know the gibrileth is coming out for the PFB WotR set, maybe the kithangian as well, so they won't be as much of an issue once it's out. Wraiths on skeletal mammoths would make for a very cool mini but not one you can just run out and buy. In the end I found some images using Google and made paper minis. Plus... lotsa maps! I shouldn't complain though.

(Sometimes I envy those GMs who just throw out a pawn base and say "that's a skeletal mammoth." :-) )

I'm running this scenario in a few days at a con and looking forward to it. It's the highest-level scenario I've run. Hopefully the party will take the diplomatic route and get to fight the demons.

I'll report back the results.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

The old D&D tundra scout miniature features a huge mammoth with a rider.

I also described the spectral riders as having spears, to explain their reach. (Not reach in the Pathfinder mechanical sense, reach as in the realistic distance they are from the ground--and the PCs they attack) Kind of like Karador from Magic, minus the centaur bit.

The Exchange 5/5

I glued these elephant figurines to 3x3 bases and they work nice. I've gotten fair use out of them for other scenarios involving elephants/mammoths etc.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Nice find Doug!

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
XPathfinder wrote:
James McTeague wrote:
Preparing this for real life, i just realized that Encounter D1 requires two copies of the Hellscapes map pack to properly represent. For this particular encounter it doesn't matter too much since it's pretty much open space, but please never require two copies of a map pack again. Map Packs are not dungeon tiles - I don't every want to have to buy a 2nd copy of a map pack in order to represent an encounter.
Are you sure? I think I was able to make it with four tiles from the pack. It was tough figuring out how they fit together with the samey-ness of each tile.

There's a graveyard in the middle of the map, then there's a 2x2 tile area on each side of the graveyard area that is exactly the same. (Unless Hellscapes is supposed to come with 2 copies of the same area and I just got a defective copy...)

Silver Crusade 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, South Carolina—Greenville

James McTeague wrote:
XPathfinder wrote:
James McTeague wrote:
Preparing this for real life, i just realized that Encounter D1 requires two copies of the Hellscapes map pack to properly represent. For this particular encounter it doesn't matter too much since it's pretty much open space, but please never require two copies of a map pack again. Map Packs are not dungeon tiles - I don't every want to have to buy a 2nd copy of a map pack in order to represent an encounter.
Are you sure? I think I was able to make it with four tiles from the pack. It was tough figuring out how they fit together with the samey-ness of each tile.
There's a graveyard in the middle of the map, then there's a 2x2 tile area on each side of the graveyard area that is exactly the same. (Unless Hellscapes is supposed to come with 2 copies of the same area and I just got a defective copy...)

You are correct. I must have gotten some type of tunnel vision while making this map.

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As a constructive criticism, the number of purchasable maps (5) in this scenario seems high. One can save money printing them out, but it still costs printer ink and larger maps often lose detail when scaled up.

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RE: miniatures. I was going to buy mammoth and dinosaur toys, but decided the expense was going over-budget for what I wanted to put into a convention run. (The toys are from safariltd.com, also sold at Michael's.)

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Still I look forward to running this and hope it goes well.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

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So, a quick report on how the game I ran went...

Starting with the characters:
Shadow Wizard 7 (run by a V-C)
Hellknight 10 (run by a V-L)
Grippli Ninja 9 (run by the other V-L)
Tengu Bard 9
Barbarian 11
Dwarf Fighter 11 (run by the organizer of the largest local game day).

So, we are running in 10-11, without adjustment (the only encounter that they struggled with was the optional... more on this later). Healing was going to be a struggle, with only two characters capable of casting any healing (the wizard could do Infernal Healing wands, while the Bard could do the CLW, etc).

So, they start off, and receive the briefing. They did ask a bunch of questions, and eventually got most of the predefined answers. Of course, at least one of the players asked... "What is it that you know that you are not telling me?"

I had written each of the trade goods on a separate post-it note, so that the players could manipulate them (showing who was carrying them, what they were giving to whom... and I could collect them when they were used). I would recommend doing this strongly to anyone running this scenario... the feedback was that this really helped a lot!

Aram Zey t-ports them to the area outside of Tolguth, and they start walking towards the town. As expected, they encountered the Vrocks and the T-Rex. As I described the opening of the encounter, the Vrocks ran in, and started their dance. The T-Rex then crashed in (giving the Vrocks a round into their dance). There was no hesitation on their part as they instantly charged into battle with the two opponents. The nearest demon was engaged, as was the dino (engaged by the Hellknight via a Telekinetic Charge cast on him by the wizard...). If it wasn't for the Hellknight's newly purchased Minor Cloak of Displacement, he would have been bitten with the AOP, grabbed, and swallowed. As it was, the dwarf was grabbed on the 'Rex's next attack went after the Dwarf (who had just critted him with a Waraxe). Too bad for the 'Rex that a Waraxe is a one-handed weapon in the hands of a dwarf!

Two of the Vrocks were able to get their dance off, dealing 10d6 electrical damage to everything in sight. The third one (who was engaged in melee), went down pretty quickly. After the dance was done (and the path to the two that were not engaged opened), one shrieked, and the other released spores. At least three players asked "Do I get a save against that?" The shriek ended up stunning the wizard and the ninja. Then, on the next round, the Vrocks switched, stunning the same to PCs... and now 5 of the 6 PCs have the abyssal vines growing out of them.

The remaining Vrocks went down quickly, even though the PCs didn't have any Good aligned weapons. It was noted afterwards I perhaps should have had them flying?

---
While healing up, they met Denur, and the Bard (only one who could speak Hallit) impressed them (nat 20 on the diplo role). They made their way to Tolguth, and sweet talked there way into the good graces of the elders, choosing their gifts very wisely (swords to Vanna, alchemical remedies to Traros, and chocolate to Olovon) (Thank you, Jerall, for pointing out what your intentions were on these). So, after a feast of dinosaur meat, and a good night's sleep, they headed out.

First stop was the natural spring. They liked the vista, but not the lack of natural defenses. Second was the town. They were very concerned about the mystery of the missing people, so much so that this was not their selection. They left, and a short while later, encountered Dorok Bear's Claw. I did use the back side of the Deep Forest map for this... seemed very fitting. Had Dorok perched upon the tall boulders on the one side, the PCs coming from the other.

This encounter was resolved without combat, in part to the Tengu Bard's silver tongue striking again (nat 20! diplomacy roll... this meant a diplomacy check in the high 30s!). He was immediately impressed with the tales of how the PCs defeated a T-Rex and three "bird demons".

So, they moved on to the Red Winter clan's camp, and spoke with the elders there. Appropriate gifts were given (Healing potions to Thanok, and the +2 Cloak to Velka), and another very high diplomacy check made friends of the Red Winter clan. They were told of the two demons, and chose to go after the harder one, the "filth demon".

---

Optional encounter:
I did not have the map pack, so just used my Crystal Caste battle mat (since it was more color than anything else). When I placed the "mammoth minis" (created by a friend from some wooden figurines found she at Micheal's and mounted on 3" canvas squares), the players were impressed, and scared when I described the Specters. I will admit I sort of messed this encounter up, in how I split the bad guys up on initiative. Had the mounts on one, the specters on the other. However, I will say, this probably helped the PCs for the most part. Didn't quite grasp the mounted combat rules. Doing it again, I would have had each of the mammoth/specter pairs on their own initiative.

That being said, this is a VERY deadly encounter. Without going into details, the specters ended up draining the Hellknight for 6 levels, the fighter for 6 levels, and the barbarian for 2 levels. In the fight, the Hellknight went down, eventually, from mammoth attacks (after having taken out one of the specters), and was saved by the grippli ninja at the last second (invisibly using UMD to trigger a CLW wand), while the bard died on the same round after being mauled by a mammoth.

At a convention, I would probably skip this encounter, due to its high lethality, and the fact that doing it would remove the chance for players to go after both demons.

--

So, the now party of 5 progressed to the filth demon. This battle was sort of anti-climactic. The Hellknight, having used an oil of bless weapon on his sword, and a potion of fly, went up, smiting chaos. Even with Waves of Fatigue hitting him, and the Wizard catching him in a hellscape spell (sorry, can't recall the name), giving him a total of -4 on attacks, he was hitting with impunity. The diseased mammoths got their tramples on (one time over the Emergency Force Shield of the wizard), but they were made short work of.

The players then mopped up the loot, really liking the Mammoth Shield! They then went back, surveyed the cave, and decided to choose the spring as their choice for the base (no Frost Giants in the area, and no "mysterious disappeance"!)

--
Everyone had fun, though the loss of a character was unfortunate (especially since it was the person who was hosting us at his house). I was given some feedback that they'd rather have faced both demons, instead of the mammoth riders, if only to have opened up all of the loot. I was glad that they dealt with the barbarians diplomatically, as I am not sure that I could have played Thanock to his full potential (plus, it is a better story if they don't just play murder hobos).

They received all prestige, and did quite well!

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Awesome Silbeg. I assume the hellscape spell was Vision of Hell.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Awesome Silbeg. I assume the hellscape spell was Vision of Hell.

That sounds about right.

4/5 RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Thanks for the feedback, Silbeg.

Silbeg wrote:
I had written each of the trade goods on a separate post-it note, so that the players could manipulate them (showing who was carrying them, what they were giving to whom... and I could collect them when they were used). I would recommend doing this strongly to anyone running this scenario... the feedback was that this really helped a lot!

This is a fantastic idea. I'll be poaching it for my next run.

Silver Crusade 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, South Carolina—Greenville

Well in my earlier posts I griped a bit... probably convention-preparation fatigue.

The day of reckoning finally arrived and I was excited to run my first scenario of the con.

I'm doing my best to remember the party mix:
Wizard 9 with focus on summoning and battlefield control (friend of mine)
Summoner 8
Holy Tactician Paladin 8? (run by a 4-star VL... no pressure on my part heh)
Spellcaster (class?) 8? who *wanted* to be hurt by demons because of some Chronicle boon
Oracle 11(!) (deaf)
A 6th PC? What is wrong with my memory?

So subtier 7-8 with 5+ PCs. Sigh, lately I keep ending up with a higher-level spellcaster in my games and they tend to bring encounters to a rapid finish. Trying not to "compete" with players but of course it's nice to present them a decent challenge.

So... allosaurus vs. vrock. The PCs waited until the vrock stopped toying with the allosaurus--it killed the dinosaur in two rounds, aided by a crit I believe. The PCs went after the vrock. It may have been permanently blinded by the oracle. It did manage to summon a buddy though, and they started to dance. But the PCs disrupted the dance and finished them off without too much trouble.

The encounter took a while it seemed... I felt at that point that I would need to skip the optional encounter, and did.

Despite using copious amounts of magic they convinced Denur to take them to Tolguth.

They uncovered what gifts to offer and had no trouble gaining the elders' support.

They visited the town first. I had made a little map for them but decided not to use it due to the running time. They seemed somewhat positive about it but were a little concerned about the disappearance.

Next, the springs. Not much time spent on that, they were informed it seemed harder to defend.

Now Doruk and co. arrive. They are easily able to spot them following. They start buffing, so the tribesmen approach, sternly but not aggressively. The players got a bit silly here. I mostly had Doruk ignore it. I suppose a tougher GM would have applied a penalty to Diplomacy. In any case they are taken to the caravan.

I played Thanock as stern but not hostile. They offered him their remaining gifts. So Diplomacy was easily achieved, and it was off to the Worldwound.

Time to confront the beast demon. They are a bit confused by the kithangian's white auroch form. The aurochs charge, causing most of the PCs to be caught in a cold damage burst, but I roll woefully for damage. Summoned cheetahs go after the demon in melee but he kills one outright and poisons the other two. A fireball from the oracle wipes out the aurochs.

The kith finds himself blinded though, and at the bottom of a pit. He teleports out into the midst of the PCs. His spell-likes are useless since he's blind. I don't recall exactly how he perished but it didn't take long.

I didn't attempt to summon due to the time. It was now 10 min. till the end of the slot. However the next slot didn't start for an hour, so they voted to keep going. I think we were all a bit weary.

The gith didn't last too long. He did a few things, like unholy blight--once again I rolled poorly for damage, although it cleared out 6 lantern archons, so that was fun. He had taken a fair amount of damage though and when the oracle got off an 81-point fireball, he exploded in a burst of diseased goop.

So we went 45-minutes overlong. In the end they chose the springs which surprised me a bit.

Well I kind of wish the boss battles had been more challenging but overall it was good. Con fatigue was also a factor.

This is a pretty solid scenario, and its multiple paths give some distinctiveness to it.


John Compton wrote:
The rider effectively occupies any particular square that its mount does, but it doesn't gain any additional reach as a result. Therefore, the mammoth mounts have considerable reach, but the incorporeal riders still only have 5-ft. reach.

Pardon the "stupid" question, but in what section of what book do I find that ruling? I did not see it under the ride skill, and I would like to know the reference for any/all instances involving mounted combat.

Also, where are people placing kithangian's 2 and 3 in subtier 10-11? It's not marked on the map, and I always seem to have a knack for selecting the most favorable [to the players] locations whenever I have such liberty. Where are some more appropriate locations for the additional two?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I placed them among the aurochs since they were disguising themselves as such.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I placed them among the aurochs since they were disguising themselves as such.

Oh duh - I'm just on the first read-through; they're disguised as little aurochs, if I'm not mistaken.

I shouldn't read tactics when I first wake up, brain's not making connections yet.

5/5

downerbeautiful wrote:
Pardon the "stupid" question, but in what section of what book do I find that ruling? I did not see it under the ride skill, and I would like to know the reference for any/all instances involving mounted combat.

If you mean the "occupying squares" part, it's in the Mounted Combat section of the Combat chapter (lower right of the right page where the Mounted Combat header is, I think.

5/5

Doug Miles wrote:
I glued these elephant figurines to 3x3 bases and they work nice. I've gotten fair use out of them for other scenarios involving elephants/mammoths etc.

Did you mean this one? The calf is 1.8x3.6, but the female you linked is 6 inches long.


Majuba wrote:
If you mean the "occupying squares" part, it's in the Mounted Combat section of the Combat chapter (lower right of the right page where the Mounted Combat header is, I think.

I may be mis-understanding Mr. Compton's statement but either the "doesn't gain any additional reach as a result" counters how I understand mounted combat and reach (i.e. lances) or it's redundant (i.e. there's no reason why reach would be extended). I'm guessing it's the latter, and some of my dreams are dashed.

The Exchange 5/5

Majuba wrote:
Doug Miles wrote:
I glued these elephant figurines to 3x3 bases and they work nice. I've gotten fair use out of them for other scenarios involving elephants/mammoths etc.
Did you mean this one? The calf is 1.8x3.6, but the female you linked is 6 inches long.

No, the adults work. I admit they are on the gargantuan side but their feet fit nicely onto a 3" x 3" base. The manufacturer is measuring from tail to trunk.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
John Compton wrote:
redward wrote:

Another nitpicky question:

The Red Winter Hunters (pg 16) say to use the Trapper from the GMG. The Trapper has a Badger animal companion. Should we include 2 of those in the encounter?
That must be text that didn't quite make it from my head to the keyboard. Please just give the GMG hunter the companion nature bond option instead. It doesn't make much sense to have a couple of trained badgers in that encounter.

So, we don't need no Steenkin badgers?

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

I'm having a bit of a problem with the monetary rewards. Specifically that the values don't seem to add up properly. I think I've figured out most of the "if-then" statements, but here's what I have (using Tier 7-8, but the issue is at all Tiers):

Spoiler:
There are three possible "pools" of money
Part A) The PCs must defeat the Vrock/Dinosaur combo and get a trophy from the fight. The elders then give them a fancy spear. Otherwise, -1,566 gold.
Part C) If the PCs fight but fail to defeat the Red Winter Tribe, -1,669.
(However, if they earlier fought and defeated Dorok Bear's Claw, it's only -461.)
Part D) If the PCs do not enter the Worldwound or fail to defeat at least ONE of the demons (they don't have to defeat both), -2,794.

So that's 1,566 + 1,669 + 2,794 = 6029.

However the total reward is only 4,360. Or to put it another way if they succeed in Part A but horribly bungle everything from then on, they get nothing.


Am I missing something?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Why would the party enter the Worldwound after failing against the Red Winter tribe? The Red Winter tribe gives them that task.

C and D are exclusionary.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Why would the party enter the Worldwound after failing against the Red Winter tribe? The Red Winter tribe gives them that task.

C and D are exclusionary.

I see that it's highly unlikely that PCs would even attempt both C and D (but never underestimate the power of players to do unforeseen things).

But I'm having a problem with the logic behind the way the rewards are given in this scenario. I guess the big thing is that all the "rewards" sections in this scenario are reduce gold earned instead of the more traditional give each PC an amount of gold. (Which is probably what confused me in the first place.)

Spoiler:

Lets assume the PCs get the trophies and spear from Part A. If I'm reading the rewards sections right, here's a couple of ways parts C and D could go:

Option 1) The PCs make it to the Red Winter Tribe and fight them, but fail to defeat them and slink back to Absalom with their tail between their legs. (Part C "rewards")
Option 2) The PCs make peaceful contact with the Red Winters and move on to the Worldwound. They cannot overcome either demon. (Part D "rewards")

Option 1 nets Tier 7-8 2691 gp (4360-1669)
Option 2 nets Tier 7-8 1566 gp (4360-2794)

So apparently fighting and failing finds you more gold than making peaceful contact.


Now I could understand if the Rewards section on page 18 said "If the PCs fight AND defeat the Red Winter Tribe, reduce each..." because that would represent the loss of treasure found in the Worldwound (partially recovered by looting what the Red Winter Tribe has).


The Gibrileth's waves of fatigue ahas a save. Normally the spell does not. Do I allow for a saving throw?

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