Chicago Sandwich Shop Emails Employees On Dec. 23rd To Say Merry Christmas And You're All Fired


Off-Topic Discussions

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Liberty's Edge

Dollars to donuts admitting it was illegal will bite you guys next contact.


"But the union also maintained that its Feb. 26 action was legal under its contract with UPS.

"'Under the agreement reached yesterday with UPS, Local 804 acknowledges that the union’s internal procedures for authorizing a strike were not properly followed on Feb. 26 and we have agreed to communicate the proper procedure to all union members,' Local 804 said in a statement. 'The work stoppage ... was legal under the union contract with UPS.'"

Am I not reading close enough?


A quick scan of other articles keeps showing UPS management saying the union agreed it was illegal and the union keeps saying it wasn't illegal.

Or, I should say, non-contractual.


Ballot Initiative Filed! The Fight for Fifteen Starts Playing Hardball in Seattle


More commie commentary:

UPS backs down over firings


Former comrades critical of 15 Now--which, btw, has recently been transformed into Vote 15! Can you see how thrilled I am? [Shakes head]

“15 Now”: A Socialist Program and Strategy

One day, hopefully, I'll be able to post about how we were betrayed by the SEIU tops (surprise, surprise!) but I think that is still no-no talk to be hidden behind the screen of democratic centralism. [Sigh]

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

More commie commentary:

UPS backs down over firings

Did I miss it? Why was the International mediating instead of being on the side of the members?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Northwestern ruling could 'rattle the universe of universities'

For an informative and entertaining take on this, clip from the daily show


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

More commie commentary:

UPS backs down over firings

Did I miss it? Why was the International mediating instead of being on the side of the members?

Well, I'm not absolutely certain that him mediating wasn't being on the side of the workers, but, quick recap:

Last year (the year before?) there was a three-way race for the top spot in the Teamsters--the incumbent, James Hoffa, Jr.; a breakaway from the Hoffa machine, Fred Gregaire; and the candidate of the Teamsters for a Democratic Union (TDU--rank-and-file reform caucus), Sandy Pope.

Hoffa won hands down, and promptly began negotiating a new contract with UPS. The latter started with the scare tactic that they were going to ask for substantial concessions in paying for health care (up to $90/week), but this was understood by almost all observers as nothing more than a scare tactic. The union stepped forward and proposed to take UPS Teamster bargaining-unit members who were currently in a company-run insurance plan and bring them into a union-run insurance-plan.

This didn't affect employees in the New England region and the Southern region because we were already enrolled in a union plan, but, apparently, there were increases in co-pays and deductibles in other plans that, rightfully imho, the members didn't want to pay while UPS is raking in $4 billion+ in profits every year.

So, when the national contract was put up to vote, back in August, it narrowly passed because it was solidly backed by the two non-affected regions; but something like a dozen regional supplements were voted down. This means that the national contract was passed, but it hasn't gone into effect, meaning that I've been waiting 7 months for my raise!!! But more importantly than that, there's been 7 months of the company and the union renegotiating the regional supplements and then, usually, the membership voting them down. The Hoffa machine (which includes my local leadership, I'm afraid) have spent a lot of time bad-mouthing the TDU-inspired "Vote No!" campaign, but I have to say, each time they vote "no," the company makes further concessions, so I can't say I blame them. Also, if it keeps up long enough, I'll get two raises at the same time and a retroactive check for all the hours that I worked this past contractual year. (Huzzah!)

Anyway, point being, the rank-and-file at UPS, even those unaffected by the health insurance changes (I don't know whether Queens is or not) are pissed off and even though Hoffa probably isn't pleased with locals wildcatting, he probably was pressured from below to send VP and head of the Package Division (which is UPS), Ken Hall, to NY.

I don't know if that helps any. I'm not a huge fan of TDU, but they've got a decent website that has both a UPS and a Hoffawatch section. Hope that helps.


Biggest Strike In China’s History Enters 6th Day: Police Arrested Organizers, Workers Battle SWAT Troops


Alabama Prisoners Plan Work Strike, Accuse State of Running ‘Slave Empire' (Video)


Sherpas, Unite!


Canada: Victory to Locked-Out Ikea Workers! Retail Workers Need a Fighting Labor Movement!


Capitalists Gut the Motor City--Detroit: The Rise and Fall of a Labor/Black Stronghold (Part One)

Transcription of (the first half of) a pretty good speech about the history of Detroit.

I'll break it down into an outline since I doubt many of you will bother to read it:

I--Intro/Present Day
II--1941 strike to organize Ford
III--Anti-Black riots of 1943
IV--McCarthyism in the Motor City
V--Esoteric Trotskyist arguments from days gone by
VI--League of Revolutionary Black Workers

Interesting thing I learned: Social-democratic Cold Warrior and pal with JFK and MLK, Walter Reuther, worked hand-in-hand with HUAC to put UAW Local 600 (largely black and red Ford employees) under receivership and tried to purge Communist Party member and future Democratic stooge of the plutocracy Coleman Young from the CIO.


Might as well:

As Union Tops Accept Penalties: Fired Queens UPS Drivers Reinstated

"We should have walked out--the whole district."

F@$#in' a.


Brazil: Workers from IMBEL of Itabujá-MG on indefinite strike


Exclusive: JetBlue flight attendants seek to hold unionization vote

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Might as well:

As Union Tops Accept Penalties: Fired Queens UPS Drivers Reinstated

"We should have walked out--the whole district."

Why does the employer get to comment on whether the union followed the union's procedures correctly in a work-stoppage?

That seems... Odd.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Might as well:

As Union Tops Accept Penalties: Fired Queens UPS Drivers Reinstated

"We should have walked out--the whole district."

F!!@in' a.

So, just to be clear...

When I say you guys got bent over the barrel by management, I'm a stooge.

When a commie rag says you got bent over the barrel by management, they're speaking truth to power.

How's that work again?

;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Because the commie rag didn't repeat the UPS lie that the union admitted it was an illegal strike?

(Edited)


Boston rally seeks funding for jobs, post-incarceration programs

There were more than 100 people there. I mean, for Marx's sake, we sold 30 newspapers!

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Because the commie rag didn't repeat the UPS lie that the union admitted it was an illegal strike?

(Edited)

Technically I was repeating the comment in the news story you linked to and missed the Union's response because it was after a break. I thought I had admitted that, mia culpa.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Boston rally seeks funding for jobs, post-incarceration programs

There were more than 100 people there. I mean, for Marx's sake, we sold 30 newspapers!

Side note, I didn't know what Goodwill really did as a charity until a few years ago. It's the stores themselves that are the charity program, they run them as a training program for people who lack job experience, or face employment challenges. I worked for a while overseeing "two" warehouses (it was one warehouse, split in two that operated differently) dealing with online sales. Probably about half the people working for me were there because they had difficulty finding work due to their incarceration records. The other half was split between people with various disabilities and immigrants.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Because the commie rag didn't repeat the UPS lie that the union admitted it was an illegal strike?

(Edited)

Hmm, so was it the commie newspaper that said UPS was claiming that the union had not followed their own rules on calling the strike? As opposed to 'calling an illegal strike'?

If so, ick! Commie cooties! Curse you, Anklebiter!


Krensky wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Because the commie rag didn't repeat the UPS lie that the union admitted it was an illegal strike?

(Edited)

Technically I was repeating the comment in the news story you linked to and missed the Union's response because it was after a break. I thought I had admitted that, mia culpa.

Well, technically, I never called you a stooge. At least, not in this thread. At least, not on this page.

Also, technically, I doubt comrades over at the editorial board Workers Vanguard see themselves as "speaking truth to power" unless, of course, you mean the multiracial American proletariat which has the power to overthrow this rotten racist system once and for all.


We made it into Vice News which, I think, officially makes up hip:

Is Seattle's Socialist City Council Member Going to Show Us How to Ditch the Two-Party System?


On the Road Again: Truck Drivers Strike for Recognition by DAVID MACARAY


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Because the commie rag didn't repeat the UPS lie that the union admitted it was an illegal strike?

(Edited)

Hmm, so was it the commie newspaper that said UPS was claiming that the union had not followed their own rules on calling the strike? As opposed to 'calling an illegal strike'?

If so, ick! Commie cooties! Curse you, Anklebiter!

No, it came from an interview with one Andy McGowan, UPS Media Director (which I think means "shill") as quoted in the NY Daily News piece linked under the title "Keep trying, f&#+ers!" above.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


No, it came from an interview with one Andy McGowan, UPS Media Director (which I think means "shill") as quoted in the NY Daily News piece linked under the title "Keep trying, f$*!ers!" above.

I wasn't clear- (but it's your fault, commie!)

So UPS is claiming that the walkout did not follow the union's rules for strikes and they are butthurt over this even though (IMHO) it isn't any of their (UPS's) business?

And what is the deal with having the walkout show up as a disciplinary strike in their employment records? Was the union negotiator on crack?


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


No, it came from an interview with one Andy McGowan, UPS Media Director (which I think means "shill") as quoted in the NY Daily News piece linked under the title "Keep trying, f$*!ers!" above.

I wasn't clear- (but it's your fault, commie!)

So UPS is claiming that the walkout did not follow the union's rules for strikes and they are butthurt over this even though (IMHO) it isn't any of their (UPS's) business?

And what is the deal with having the walkout show up as a disciplinary strike in their employment records? Was the union negotiator on crack?

The gist is that a business is a cooperation between employers and employees. The union represents the interests of the employees in this cooperation. Also, as this is a cooperation, both the union and the employers make agreements with each other.

This creates a framework for the business (an organization consisting of both employers and employees) to operate in and, among other things, gives rules for settling disputes up to and including work stoppage.

IOW, the union, as the legal representative of the employees, had an agreement in place with the employer (I'm putting money on it being written) that they would follow a step by step process for dispute resolution. Their rules for work stoppage are an agreement made with the employers, therefore it is the "business" of the employers whether or not the employees followed the agreement their legal representative made for them regarding this matter.

The reason for this is pretty straight forward. It puts in place a process for dispute resolution that minimizes the occurrance (sp?) of work stoppage because frequent work stoppage can cause the folding of a business due to lost revenue and that affects both employers who will no longer have a company and employees who will no longer have jobs.

Liberty's Edge

The Thing from Beyond the Edge wrote:


This creates a framework for the business (an organization consisting of both employers and employees) to operate in and, among other things, gives rules for settling disputes up to and including work stoppage.

Ah, then UPS is claiming that they violated the agreement between the union and UPS, not the agreement between the union and the workers?

True or not, that at least makes more sense.

Thanks


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yes, the company claims that the union violated the grievance resolution mechanisms agreed upon by the company and the union. Of course, the union's position was that firing the original driver without a proper hearing was a violation of the grievance resolution mechanism agreed upon by the company and the union and retaliation for signing a grievance, to boot.

You can find, if you're so inclined, the National Master Agreement between the Teamsters and UPS, but, in the minute or so that I looked, I couldn't find the regional supplement that governs New York.

More to the point, I wasn't there, so I can't say, but I get the feeling that the conversation between management and the union went a lot like many, many other conversations I've had in the past with management: I say my piece and they don't listen; they say their piece and I don't listen; repeat indefinitely. It would certainly explain the company saying the union admitted the strike was illegal while the union maintains they admitted no such thing.

Ah, the exciting and fun-filled field of labor relations!


$15 NOW National Conference, Seattle - evening talks


ILWU joins picketing truck drivers and Long Beach, LA ports


China: 60,000 Workers Continue Historic Strike, Defying Repression by the State and Pressures from Western Corporations


Irontruth wrote:
Side note, I didn't know what Goodwill really did as a charity until a few years ago.

Plus, last time I visited the store here in southern New Hampshire, I picked up a DVD of Mumia Abu-Jamal: A Case for Reasonable Doubt? for $2! Also, a P.G. Wodehouse book.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


You can find, if you're so inclined, the National Master Agreement between the Teamsters and UPS, but, in the minute or so that I looked, I couldn't find the regional supplement that governs New York.

More to the point, I wasn't there, so I can't say, but I get the feeling that the conversation between management and the union went a lot like many, many other conversations I've had in the past with management: I say my piece and they don't listen; they say their piece and I don't listen; repeat indefinitely. It would certainly explain the company saying the union admitted the strike was illegal while the union maintains they admitted no such thing.

Ah, the exciting and fun-filled field of labor relations!

re: finding the Master Agreement- I've read a lot of the links you post here, but, no, just no.

re: repeating positions- sounds like descriptions I've read on international negotiations.


May Day in America:
The Haymarket Martyrs and coming revolt of American workers

Britishiznoid Trot gets some details wrong, but whatevs.

Drunk History--Haymarket

And, finally, a song.

[Ahem]

Arise, ye prisoners of starvation,
Arise, ye wretched of the earth,
For justice thunders condemnation,
A better world's in birth!

No more tradition's chains shall bind us
Arise, ye slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations,
We have been naught, we shall be all!

'Tis the final conflict, let each stand where he may
The international soviet shall be the human race!

[Raises left fist]

So comrades, come rally, for this is the time and place
The international soviet shall be the human race!

Happy May Day!
Vive le Galt!!!!

Liberty's Edge

Aren't you supposed to be wearing ribbons and drunkenly morris dancing around a pole?


That's scheduled for later today, after the immigrant rally and the general strike.


Tens of thousands march in Beirut for wage hikes


Seattle:

Mayor Murray's minimum wage proposal: Pretending to be left.

15 Now: Left.

Ultralefts not happy with 15 Now charter amendment.

[Maintains democratic centralist silence]


May Day Celebrated in Chelsea with Calls for Immigration Reform, Higher Minimum Wage


What To Make of Seattle’s $15 Minimum Wage Plan


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Drunk History--Haymarket

Woops, f+@~ed up the link. Fixed now.


Exclusive: Fast food strikes in 150 cities and protests in 30 countries planned for May 15


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Capitalists Gut the Motor City--Detroit: The Rise and Fall of a Labor/Black Stronghold (Part One)

Transcription of (the first half of) a pretty good speech about the history of Detroit.

I'll break it down into an outline since I doubt many of you will bother to read it:

I--Intro/Present Day
II--1941 strike to organize Ford
III--Anti-Black riots of 1943
IV--McCarthyism in the Motor City
V--Esoteric Trotskyist arguments from days gone by
VI--League of Revolutionary Black Workers

Interesting thing I learned: Social-democratic Cold Warrior and pal with JFK and MLK, Walter Reuther, worked hand-in-hand with HUAC to put UAW Local 600 (largely black and red Ford employees) under receivership and tried to purge Communist Party member and future Democratic stooge of the plutocracy Coleman Young from the CIO.

Part II

Comments from the floor

And since once of the things they're so proud of is an anti-Klan demo that drove the nightriders out of Detroit in the aftermath of Greensboro:

Greensboro 1979, Kansas City 2014: Fascist Murder


Medford Teachers Strike Shows Power of Community Support


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Side note, I didn't know what Goodwill really did as a charity until a few years ago.
Plus, last time I visited the store here in southern New Hampshire, I picked up a DVD of Mumia Abu-Jamal: A Case for Reasonable Doubt? for $2! Also, a P.G. Wodehouse book.

My high school history teacher had a Free Mumia poster in the classroom.


Free Mumia!

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