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I've re-started my long-running (2008-?) 3.5/PF hybrid Eberron game, and been catching up on the last couple of year's worth of books, optimization threads, etc.
I'm familiar with several ways in 3.5 for non-spellcasters to deal with invisible foes (either in combat or while standing guard against infiltrators) but I'm not up to speed on the most efficient ways to do so in Pathfinder, and I haven't really seen a consolidated guide or specific discussion thread about this.
Assuming that we're talking about people who know to expect invisibility (that is, PCs, or reasonably competent NPCs with PC class levels) and have access to level-appropriate mundane and magical gear, what are the best ways to mitigate Invisibility and/or Greater Invisibility without being a spellcaster? (assuming magic items, alchemy, and UMD-ing items is ok)
As far as mundane ways, I just finished reading Ashiel's thread of clever macguyver tricks, so chalk dust or flour is definitely on the table. NPCs guarding high-security locations in my world know well enough to cover the floor with sand or flour, make all of the doors noisy, and carry a pouch of flour or chalk dust to throw at enemies or on the ground in order to determine what square they are in.
Dogs or other animals with Scent works too, though the Negate Aroma spell, or a potion/oil of the same, defeats that method. Ditto for the Barbarian rage power that grants Scent during combat, or being a Half-Orc and taking the feat that gives Scent.
Carrying a scroll or wand of See Invisibility or Invisibility Purge would do the trick, but that would require being a spellcaster or having a reliable UMD, so it's an option, but not for everyone.
So I'm throwing this question into the ring for those who know more than I about Pathfinder-specific tactics, magic items, long-duration buffs that could be cast on non-spellcasters, etc
Thanks everyone!
A mundane way could be traps, a simple trip wire attached to bells, or maybe a bear trap if you're going a little more hardcore.
There's also magical wards for UMD users like alarm, they have the advantage of having higher perception DC and requiring the trapfinding ability to spot. I guess some could say Detect Magic could find magic wards/traps, but I find that silly (hopefully not a derail).
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Spectral Shroud is the permanent solution; but is pricey (26K). Still, if you absolutely, positiviley want to be the invisible dector for the party, it's there for you.
Otherwise the standard potions.
Sadly invisibility, in a sense, IS silence; in the sense that it gives a +20 to hiding (+40 if you remain still). So good luck perceptioning it out.
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Smoke pellet, smog
Source Dungeoneer's Handbook
The smoke from a smog pellet is oily, and creatures that are hit by a smog pellet or pass through the smoke are covered in thick residue. This residue makes invisible creatures visible for 1d4 rounds.
Price 40 gp; Weight —
Awesome. That's the perfect item for a non-spellcasting mid or high-level adventurer's kit.
There's also magical wards for UMD users like alarm, they have the advantage of having higher perception DC and requiring the trapfinding ability to spot. I guess some could say Detect Magic could find magic wards/traps, but I find that silly (hopefully not a derail).
Actually that brings up a good question - does Trapfinding allow you to find an Alarm spell by RAW or RAI?
It sounds like you've covered the majority of it. Also blind fighting feat works as well as long as you can pin point the square said invisble thing is in.
Yeah, Blind-Fight is very important. The main issue being the "narrowing it down to a square" part, which is more difficult. The bag of flour/chalk dust works if it is spread out on the floor or you take an action to do so (I'm assuming that would be a standard action to throw a bag of flour or chalk dust onto a few squares around you, but that's my interpretation) I've also considered carrying a few extra bottles of ink and splashing them on the floor so that an invisible character would leave inky footprints unless they took off their shoes/boots/greaves/etc. The Smoke Pellet also works.
UMD users do have a lot of options. Glitterdust and See Invisibility are 2nd level spells, good for scrolls and wands, and it seems like a UMD user would have a decent shot at having a reliable UMD mod and the extra cash on hand to afford 2nd level scrolls or wands by the time invisible combatants became a regular problem (which I assume is right about the time Greater Invisibility is available as a spell, since before that, a single attack renders a combatant visible, meaning mid-combat fixes are less important than stopping enemies from sneaking up on you).
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Spectral Shroud is the permanent solution; but is pricey (26K). Still, if you absolutely, positiviley want to be the invisible dector for the party, it's there for you.
Still awesome for high-level Martial characters.
Found in Ultimate Equipment:
Tremor Boots. 10k GP, gives you always-on Tremorsense out to 20 feet in every direction.
The expensive, high-level upgrade for the Smog Pellet would be Dust of Appearance, which has a 10 foot radius AoE and lasts for five minutes, but by the time it's affordable, maxing out UMD to use scrolls/wands of See Invisibility or Glitterdust ends up looking like a more attractive option.
It is a lesser known rule, but you can notice an invisible creature with a fairly simple DC 20 perception check.
From CRB:
"A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack."
Now, if the invisible creature is using stealth, then the DC jumps up to Stealth Check +20, but this is still a makeable check, particularly against a slower, heavily armored character who has not invested in stealth.
Now, the ways around invis are pretty well spelled out:
"If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).
Invisible creatures leave tracks. They can be tracked normally. Footprints in sand, mud, or other soft surfaces can give enemies clues to an invisible creature's location.
An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment."
So, a Zen Garden setup in the opening rooms of a guarded area seem reasonable. Water and mud also work.
Paint traps, similar to dye packs on retail goods and stolen money in the real world, work very well here... but can be disabled.
Curtains, oddly enough, are pretty helpful. Beaded curtains make noise... attach a number of bells to them and they make lots of noise and show an invisible character's displacement.
In any case, once you have noticed an invisible creature, you can attempt to Pinpoint them with a Perception check. This is a rough check, but it can actually be made easier than it looks depending on the situation.
For example... even when invisible, you can't make a full-attack and stealth in the same round. So the pinpoint check starts at DC 40. But if the creature moves up to half speed, then check DC goes down by -5. If they move more than half speed it goes down by -10. If they are fighting or casting spells with verbal components, the check DC is -20.
If they charge or run it goes down by -10.
Now the DC also rises by +1 per 10 ft of distance, so that is a factor, but say an invisible character charges a guard with another guard 20ft away. The check to notice that character is DC 20 -10 -20.... so automatic. The check for the second guard to pinpoint their location is DC 40-20-10 = DC 10. So also pretty easy.
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From CRB:
"A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack."
Hmm, I missed that part. Thanks for pointing that out.
Invisible creatures leave tracks. They can be tracked normally. Footprints in sand, mud, or other soft surfaces can give enemies clues to an invisible creature's location.
An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment."
So, a Zen Garden setup in the opening rooms of a guarded area seem reasonable. Water and mud also work.
Paint traps, similar to dye packs on retail goods and stolen money in the real world, work very well here... but can be disabled.
I wonder how this interacts with Pass Without Trace? I would expect that the invisible creature still displaces sand/flour/water while standing in it, but leaves no tracks once it has moved from that spot, but that's my own interpretation, now RAW.
As far as the paint traps go, I imagine that a truly security-minded facility would still set them up, since they would provide more opportunities to punish unlucky, careless, or insufficiently skilled infiltrators.
Curtains, oddly enough, are pretty helpful. Beaded curtains make noise... attach a number of bells to them and they make lots of noise and show an invisible character's displacement.
Very yes. I thought about the beaded curtains, but the bells had not occurred to me.
Intentionally squeaky hinges on normal doors can do similar things.
In any case, once you have noticed an invisible creature, you can attempt to Pinpoint them with a Perception check. This is a rough check, but it can actually be made easier than it looks depending on the situation.
For example... even when invisible, you can't make a full-attack and stealth in the same round. So the pinpoint check starts at DC 40. But if the creature moves up to half speed, then check DC goes down by -5. If they move more than half speed it goes down by -10. If they are fighting or casting spells with verbal components, the check DC is -20.
If they charge or run it goes down by -10.
Again thank you for pointing out some things I had missed. This certainly makes Greater Invisibility somewhat less dangerous. Though a sneak-attacking Rogue could still get scary, certainly not an auto-lose, even by RAW.
Caltrops
Might not be able to see him but if you limit where he can go it makes pinning down his location easier
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Found a hidden treasure while going over Ultimate Equipment.
A Divination-flavored Cloak of the Hedge Wizard will allow the wearer to cast Detect Magic at will. It usually won't work during combat, but a wary adventurer or elite bodyguard could continue to cast and concentrate, allowing them to detect any humanoid-shaped auras that don't appear to exist to normal vision. With a little spellcraft, it would even be possible to determine what school it's from.