Archetype pffff
Just grab dragon style.
You do have something against archetypes, don't you?Archetype pffff
Just grab dragon style.
Not particularly, but for the monk, no archetype increases your damage more than dragon style.
qinggong monk is a decent archetype.
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My latest creation.....
Alternately, Monkthulu as suggested by BadBird
Half elf, human, half orc, whatever... just something with a str bonus. Level 12 (20 pt)
Druid 4, Monk (Master of many styles) 3, Barbarian 5
(seems weird, but follow me here. Take Monk first.)
Str: 22 (+2 race, +2 levels, +2 belt)
Dex: 14 (+2 belt)
Con: 16 (+2 belt)
Int: 10
Wis: 19 (+1 levels, +4 headband)
Cha: 8
Feats:
Monk:
1: Dragon Style, Imp. Unarmed Strike
2: Dragon Ferocity
3: Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
Druid
5: Feral Combat Training
7: Shaping Focus
Barbarian:
9: Monastic Legacy
11: Power Attack or extra rage
Gear:
+1 impact amulet of mighty fists
+2 ring of protection
+1 Brawling leather armor
+2 belt of physical perfection
+3 cloak of resistance
+4 headband of wisdom
+3 bracers of armor
Monk's Robes
everything else is butter.
Features:
Fast Movement +20 (barb and monk stack)
Rage
Rage Powers: Superstition +3, Reckless Abandon +2 to hit, -2 AC
Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense +1
Improved Uncanny Dodge
AC Bonus +3/+4 wisdom
Unarmed Strike
Stunning Fist
Evasion
Maneuver Training
Still Mind
Spontaneous Casting
Nature Bond
Nature Sense
Wild Empathy
Woodland Stride
Trackless Step
Resist Nature's Lure
Wild Shape, as level 8 druid, 3/day
So here is the schtick... your form of choice is a Giant Lake Octopus... it still has a 20ft. land speed, so you can move around just fine.
With monastic legacy you count as a level 7 monk for unarmed strike damage, and with monks robes, you count as +5 more for total of level 12. So your unarmed strike damage is 2d6. When you shape, you are huge, so it becomes 4d6. With your impact amulet, it becomes 6d6.
You are also getting +3 ac from monk levels and +4 from wisdom, so that is bonus. The extra weirdness here is that brawling armor property still functions while you are shaped, but you are technically not wearing armor because it merges, so you get the best of both worlds.
So, the idea is this... the Octopus gets 8 tentacle attacks, but their damage is generally pretty low...since you are able to sub in monk damage, you can make it fairly high, and these are all at full bab.
DEFENSES:
HP: 104 (7d8+5d12+36 con, +5 FCB(barb))
Rage HP: 128
AC: 22 (10, +3 monk levels, +4 wisdom, +3 bracers, +6 natural armor, -2 size, -2 reckless, -2 rage, +2 ring)
Rage/Shape Saves: Fort: +20 Ref: +11 Will: +18
OFFENSES:
So wild shape bonuses: +6 str, -4 dex, +6 nat armor
Rage bonuses: +4 str, +4 con, -2 AC
Attack bonus is then: +21 (+9 BAB, +11 str, +1 amulet, +1 focus, +2 armor, +2 reckless abandon, -3 power attack, -2 size)
Damage for each tentacle is: 6d6+20 (+11 str, +2 armor, +1 amulet, +6 power attack)
Your bite is still only +19 since it doesn't benefit from FCT, and hits for 3d6+16
Your full attack looks like this:
Tentacles: +21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21, 6d6+19
Bite: +19, 3d6+15
If everything hits, you can slap a target for a total of 51d6+176, That is 354.5 average damage if they all hit, with a maximum of 482. you can rage for 15 rounds, which should get you through a lot. Take extra rage at 13th and you will be up to 23 per day which should be more than enough.
Tentacles have 20 ft reach... so just sit back and Kung-fu octopus your way to victory
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My latest creation.....
Alternately, Monkthulu as suggested by BadBirdHalf elf, human, half orc, whatever... just something with a str bonus. Level 12 (20 pt)
Druid 4, Monk (Master of many styles) 3, Barbarian 5
(seems weird, but follow me here. Take Monk first.)Str: 22 (+2 race, +2 levels, +2 belt)
Dex: 14 (+2 belt)
Con: 16 (+2 belt)
Int: 10
Wis: 19 (+1 levels, +4 headband)
Cha: 8Feats:
Monk:
1: Dragon Style, Imp. Unarmed Strike
2: Dragon Ferocity
3: Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
Druid
5: Feral Combat Training
7: Shaping Focus
Barbarian:
9: Monastic Legacy
11: Power Attack or extra rageGear:
+1 impact amulet of mighty fists
+2 ring of protection
+1 Brawling leather armor
+2 belt of physical perfection
+3 cloak of resistance
+4 headband of wisdom
+3 bracers of armor
Monk's Robes
everything else is butter.Features:
Fast Movement +20 (barb and monk stack)
Rage
Rage Powers: Superstition +3, Reckless Abandon +2 to hit, -2 AC
Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense +1
Improved Uncanny Dodge
AC Bonus +3/+4 wisdom
Unarmed Strike
Stunning Fist
Evasion
Maneuver Training
Still Mind
Spontaneous Casting
Nature Bond
Nature Sense
Wild Empathy
Woodland Stride
Trackless Step
Resist Nature's Lure
Wild Shape, as level 8 druid, 3/daySo here is the schtick... your form of choice is a Giant Lake Octopus... it still has a 20ft. land speed, so you can move around just fine.
With monastic legacy you count as a level 7 monk for unarmed strike damage, and with monks robes, you count as +5 more for total of level 12. So your unarmed strike damage is 2d6. When you shape, you are huge, so it becomes 4d6. With your impact amulet, it becomes 6d6.
You are also getting +3 ac from monk levels and +4 from wisdom, so that is bonus. The extra weirdness here is that brawling armor property still functions while you are shaped, but you are technically not wearing armor because it merges, so you get...
Umm... what alignment does this monstrosity have?
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Umm... what alignment does this monstrosity have?
Chaotic Neutral... as befits a lunatic's nightmare.
really, though, that is the only alignment you can have. You start as lawful neutral and then just descend into the madness of monktopus.Either way, you do not lose any monk abilities... you just can't take more monk levels. By level 17, the Monktopus should have Pounce as well via beast totem powers, and probably planar wild shape.... so you can be a Fiendish Giant Lake Octopus, which grants DR 10/Good, Resist 15 to fire, acid and something else...... electricity? and SR 22.
If you go mythic and can start getting followers as though you were a deity... then you are really just playing Cthulu in "the early years".
What, in your opinion, is the most powerful monk archtype?
Or build for that matter? (For the purposes of keeping it as monk like as possible, lets say any build has to have the majority of levels as a monk)
I'm partial to the Master of Many Styles flavour but I don't think it's particularly strong. I've heard the Maneuver Master is pretty strong but I haven't seen the maths for it.
What do you think?
MOMS is weak, without flurry he's never going to hit much. Maneuver master struggles as well, as noted. Tettori can be good because he is able to grapple practically everything.
The strongest archetypes are Zen Archer and Sohei. Zen Archer because archery is strong; sohei because he gets what every other monk doesn't get: decent weapons, and a static boost to hit and damage.
Basically, the best way to be a monk...is to not be a typical monk. The typical monk uses unarmed strike, and that ability is vastly over-rated by the developers. The monk, unlike other combat classes, gets no boost to his attack bonus. Instead, he gets MADness, a penalty to hit (or else 3/4 BAB), and poor enhancement (costs twice as much and is capped at +5 total, not +10). Now you can get some dinky boosts to unarmed strike by using buffs that make you bigger, but this generally means relying on the party spell-casters to buff you, something no-one else has to do on a regular basis unless they can buff themselves. I've only ever seen one person pull it off by using some crazy equipment choices, so without a PhD in system mastery, forget it.
The atypical monk uses weapons, sometimes armour, and has boosts to his attacks and damage.
Now I'm not saying monks cannot be fun, or that some players don't get them to shine in some circumstances...but it's just not guaranteed. Most of the players I have played with who picked up a monk usually gave up on it as simply too weak. So to make a great monk is like winning the gold medal for the sprint in the paralympics: well done, that took a massive amount of work and dedication, feel proud of yourself...but now you have to share a party with Ussain Bolt, and he's going to leave you in the dust every time.
The Monktopus is brilliant, but I'll still vote for my human Zen-Archer.
Oddly enough the Zen Archer is what I would pick too.... to actually play. Monktopus is just some theorycrafting fun. Like a mad scientist asking "what happens if I do this...?"
I really like the Zen Archer all around... its a very potent archetype.
I am also very fond of the Tetori Monk, because grappling the biggest thing in the room into submission is just downright cool.
Can you breath when not in water? I guess you can, but is it stated in the rules?Umm... what alignment does this monstrosity have?Chaotic Neutral... as befits a lunatic's nightmare.
really, though, that is the only alignment you can have. You start as lawful neutral and then just descend into the madness of monktopus.Either way, you do not lose any monk abilities... you just can't take more monk levels. By level 17, the Monktopus should have Pounce as well via beast totem powers, and probably planar wild shape.... so you can be a Fiendish Giant Lake Octopus, which grants DR 10/Good, Resist 15 to fire, acid and something else...... electricity? and SR 22.
If you go mythic and can start getting followers as though you were a deity... then you are really just playing Cthulu in "the early years".
It is one of those wonderful things that you do not lose, since you never actually gain the aquatic subtype.... you are still a humanoid. But either way, you only gain the ability to breath in water... you never lose the ability to breath air.
Additionally, when you polymorph you gain the ability to breath when using any of your listed move speeds (swim, burrow etc.) and the octopus has a land speed of 20ft. so you are covered on both ends.
Lord Malkov wrote: "The Monktopus!!! "
This is freaking insane...I love it. BTW, sweet avatar. Lord Soth rules!
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Umm... what alignment does this monstrosity have?Chaotic Neutral... as befits a lunatic's nightmare.
really, though, that is the only alignment you can have. You start as lawful neutral and then just descend into the madness of monktopus.Either way, you do not lose any monk abilities... you just can't take more monk levels. By level 17, the Monktopus should have Pounce as well via beast totem powers, and probably planar wild shape.... so you can be a Fiendish Giant Lake Octopus, which grants DR 10/Good, Resist 15 to fire, acid and something else...... electricity? and SR 22.
If you go mythic and can start getting followers as though you were a deity... then you are really just playing Cthulu in "the early years".
The 'descent into madness' seems very apropos... Lovecraftian, to be sure.
One of the big issues with the monk is that they do rogue and bard damage while being expected to fill a martial role.
some rough math lvl 20 monk with dragon style and weapon focus does
+28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+18/+13 for 2d10+38 while power attacking or
+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24/+19 for 2d10+20
Compared to a fighter without weapon focus
+33/+28/+23/+18 for 2d6+42 with a higher chance to crit
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Well it's not the most powerful I am partial to the Weapon Adept archetype. If you dip Cleric and select a deity/patron with the Quarterstaff as a favoured weapon you can make the most of the Perfect Strike bonus feat (which has proved awesome on my Zen Archer).
It would also open up access to Guided Handed so you can basically make a melee version of a Zen Archer (worth noting that ZAM can hang in melee as well).
You can flurry with one end of your Quarterstaff, there by cutting enhancement costs in half and get 3:1 on power attack with every attack.
Combine with Qinggong as well.
If considering this for PFS the deities I know of that use the Quarterstaff are Nethys and Apsu. There could be more.
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Well it's not the most powerful I am partial to the Weapon Adept archetype. If you dip Cleric and select a deity/patron with the Quarterstaff as a favoured weapon you can make the most of the Perfect Strike bonus feat (which has proved awesome on my Zen Archer).
It would also open up access to Guided Handed so you can basically make a melee version of a Zen Archer (worth noting that ZAM can hang in melee as well).
You can flurry with one end of your Quarterstaff, there by cutting enhancement costs in half and get 3:1 on power attack with every attack.
Combine with Qinggong as well.
If considering this for PFS the deities I know of that use the Quarterstaff are Nethys and Apsu. There could be more.
Apsu would be VERY cool...very flavorful.
One of the big issues with the monk is that they do rogue and bard damage while being expected to fill a martial role.
some rough math lvl 20 monk with dragon style and weapon focus does
+28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+18/+13 for 2d10+38 while power attacking or
+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24/+19 for 2d10+20Compared to a fighter without weapon focus
+33/+28/+23/+18 for 2d6+42 with a higher chance to crit
Well.. it is a bit of a systemic issue with TWF compared to Two-Handers. The benefit to TWF is really very slight, and without access to Two-Weapon Rend or a high crit weapon, it is even more-so.
I think a dragon styled monk who power attacks can do okay... but accuracy becomes a serious issue. At level 4 you are taking -4 to your attacks... basically giving you a starting point of +0/+0 for flurries.
In the long run, its not the damage that a fighter can deal that separates them as much as the accuracy boosts. The Monk's AC bonuses are nice, but they really just make up for the lack of armor and nothing else.... IE a monk with bracers of armor +5 and 22 wisdom at level 20, has +16 AC from those things. A fighter with an amulet of natural armor +5 (which is a slot stolen from the Monk by AoMF) and +5 full plate at level 20 gets +19 AC from those things. So the Monk doesn't really have any palpable advantage there. They do have easier access to crane style, but again, even just that -1 compounds their accuracy problems.
At level 12, a 2h fighter with str 22, power attack, focus feats, a +3 weapon and gloves of dueling will have +23/+18/+13 for attacks.
A monk with 22 str, power attack, dragon style, weapon focus, and a +2 AoMF will have +15/+15/+10/+10/+5
Against, the CR 12 avg AC of 28, the monk will average 1.15 hits per round. The fighter, OTOH, will average 1.65 hits per round.... and the fighter's hits will deal more damage and crit more often.
The fighter also gets more benefit from Haste effects. So the extra attacks that a monk gets are a bit deceptive, and like many TWF builds, the monk is generally better off avoiding power attack altogether. This also doesn't bring up the fact that the Monk only has a 3/4 BAB if it has to move, where the fighter can easily grab two vital strike feats and furious focus with bonus feats to be attacking at +27 for 6d6+32 at level 12.
Ultimately, the monk looks a lot better than it really is... because a lot of what it gets are features that simply cover up built in deficits. Luckily, the Zen Archer, Tetori and Sohei end up doing fairly well, but the Core monk class certainly does lag behind.
The monk loses a fair bit in DPR for their monk abilities, skill points, skill list, and saves.
Monk is a mobile stealth acrobatics character than can consistently contribute in combat. Unlike certain classes (*cough* rogue *cough*) at least the monk is functional.
Finally Qinggong monk should always be considered. Some qinggong powers are excellent. Ki leech comes to mind.
Part of me would rather go with the Hungry Ghost Monk since it also has ki leech, but it is a constant feature and not the SLA provided by Qinggong, which means it doesn't need the standard action to activate.
At the same time, since it costs 0 ki, you could just say "I cast Ki Leech every 20 minutes". It seems overly troublesome, but at the same time it gives off a nice mechanical feature to simulate an addict jonesing for a hit (although...that might be a bit literal in this case). But hungry ghost monk does get the ability to steal ki 5 levels earlier, which is just after you get Ki, which can be really useful for a Qinggong's playstyle.
Sohei. Because a Sohei using unarmed strikes will do more damage then almost any other monk archetype, except maybe martial artist, due to brawling armor+weapon training. Yeah, only a d6 damage, but still. Also because they are Armoured Monks.
1d8, since it stops right after the first damage increase. Still, the general point is made that its static damage is more appealing than damage dice increases.
Thinking about it, I have an actual question, can anyone tell me: since mithral generally makes medium armor act like light armor, does it quality for the brawler armor property? If so, I would highly advice take the armor expert trait since it is basically "mithralled medium armor proficiency".
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Tell me more about this temple sword hungry ghost monk and how one would build say a level 13 20 point buy one...
Well, it's good because of the expanded threat range of the Temple Sword. But again, a single level dip into Cleric (seranrae) gets you an even better threat range with a scimitar.
It would take a multitude of feats but I've kicked around the idea of a Dervish Dancing Crusader of Seranrae 1/Hungry Ghost Monk X... The idea of using Dervish Dance with a monk is appealing as you don't lose out on the 1.5 STR to damage, since you never had it... It also makes you a little less mad as you can just pump DEX and WIS.
Tell me more about this temple sword hungry ghost monk and how one would build say a level 13 20 point buy one...Well, it's good because of the expanded threat range of the Temple Sword. But again, a single level dip into Cleric (seranrae) gets you an even better threat range with a scimitar.
It would take a multitude of feats but I've kicked around the idea of a Dervish Dancing Crusader of Seranrae 1/Hungry Ghost Monk X... The idea of using Dervish Dance with a monk is appealing as you don't lose out on the 1.5 STR to damage, since you never had it... It also makes you a little less mad as you can just pump DEX and WIS.
A cleric of Saranrae who leeches life energy and seeks to emulate the undead. That's some interesting flavor ...
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Tell me more about this temple sword hungry ghost monk and how one would build say a level 13 20 point buy one...Well, it's good because of the expanded threat range of the Temple Sword. But again, a single level dip into Cleric (seranrae) gets you an even better threat range with a scimitar.
It would take a multitude of feats but I've kicked around the idea of a Dervish Dancing Crusader of Seranrae 1/Hungry Ghost Monk X... The idea of using Dervish Dance with a monk is appealing as you don't lose out on the 1.5 STR to damage, since you never had it... It also makes you a little less mad as you can just pump DEX and WIS.
It is a very feat intensive build though. You need Weapon finesse, dervish dance and crusaders flurry in order to fully function. I find it much easier to use a temple sword and make it keen or take improved critical at 10th lvl. 17-20 is good enough for the purposes of regaining ki. You also want to reach 9th lvl asap so that you can steal temporary hp.
Now if you start the campaign at higher lvls, the cleric dip does have merits. You need to be at least 6 lvl in order to have the 3 vital feats.
For sure it's mainly just theory crafting and spitballing... Heck, you could take a level of Dawnflower Dervish Bard to get Dervish Dance without Weapon Finesse (I think), but that would mean you wait until ECL 4 to get BAB +1. That just hurts too much.
Double the buffs for self only would help offset the list BAB, but man, can you imagine having to play that up from level 1? It may (stress may) be an interesting idea if you can jump in a 6th level or something...
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I have a seventh level drunken master/master of many styles/monk of the sacred mountain who uses archon and crane style in pfs and he makes DM laugh at the absurdity.
I run Into combat with 87 HP, 30 ac, four aoo's A round that each give +4 ac to adjacent allies, can boost my ac by 4 each round but never need it, cannot be moved and redirect attacks that get through to my allies toward me, negate them and give the ally who was attacked an aoo for the trouble of being missed. Since I have the brawler archetype added in for damage and flavor on the fighter end, and boosted saves via my drunken brawler feat, I have extreme difficulty dying to anything.....eventually, whatever I am fighting dies. It's fun and very powerful.
Don't underestimate drunken master. It is deceptively powerful. And master of many styles is just beautiful if you know what you are doing. Monk of the sacred mountain has some very useful abilities that are often completely ignored but will keep you alive in far more situations than you think...particularly grapples against huge monsters trying to eat you, or being bull rushed off a bridge into a river of lava, etc.
Whoops, I thought it said it didn't go above 4th level.
Well if you want pure damage from your fists then I like Monk/Ranger/Fighter (Brawler). Three levels of monk for monastic legacy. Six levels of ranger for two-weapon fighting without Dex requirement. Everything else, fighter for static damage. I like Brawler for Close Combat (even better if your DM allows you to use Gloves of Dueling). I like MoMS for monk but any archetype that gives up flurry works. Get your extra attacks back with TWF. Of course, how much of a monk you are is up to debate!
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Belts: Belt of Physical Perfection +6 (144,000gold)
Body: Robe of Eyes (120,000gold)
Chest: None
Eyes: None
Feet: Winged Boots (16,000gold)
Hands: None
Head: None
Headband: Headband of Inspiring Wisdom +6 (36,000gold)
Neck: Amulet of Mighty Fist +5 (100,000gold)
Ring (up to two): Ring of Protection +5 (50,000gold),Ring of Regeneration (90,000gold)
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance +5 (25,000gold)
Wrist: Bracers of Armor +8 (64,000gold)
Items: 2 Immovable Rods (10,000gold),Bag of Holding Type II(5,000gold), (+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis; Manuals 220,000gold)
Total Wealth: 880,000 gold
Str: 30 = 17 + 5lvl + 6enh + 2inh
Dex: 22 = 14 + 6enh + 2 inh
Con: 22 = 14 + 6enh + 2 inh
Int: 10 = 10
Wis: 22 = 14 + 6enh + 2inh
Cha: 8 = 8
Feats: Defensive Combat Training, Combat Reflexes, Toughness, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Blind-Fight, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Great Fortitude
Monk Feats: Deflect Arrows, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Medusa’s Wrath, Snatch Arrows
HP: 263 = 3 + 5*lvl + Con*lvl + Favorite class bonus + Toughness = 3 + 13*lvl
AC: 41(45 vs AOOs) = 10 + 6dex + 6wis + 1dodge (+ 4 mobility) + 5def + 8arm + 5monk
Touch AC: 33
Flat footed AC: 40
BAB: 15
CMB: 35(37 for grapple and trip, 33 for disarm) = 20lvl + 10str + 5enh
CMD: 62 = 10 + 20lvl + 10str+6dex + 6wis + 5monk + 5def
Fort: 25 = 12 + 6con + 5res +2feat
Refl: 25 = 12 + 6dex + 5res +2feat
Will: 25(27 vs mind affecting) = 12 + 6wis + 5res +2feat
Base Speed: 30ft (90ft land)
Skills:
Acrobatics: 20ranks + 3class + 6dex (+20 high jump) = +29 (49 for jumping)
Climb: 20ranks + 3class + 10str = +33
Perception: 20ranks + 3class + 6wis + 10comp = +39
Sense Motive: 20ranks +3class + 6wis = +29
Stealth: 20ranks + 3class + 6dex = +29
Defenses:
Improved Evasion, Still Mind, Unlimited Slow Fall, Immune to mundane and magical Disease, Immune to Poison, SR 30, Immune to Aging, 10 DR/Chaotic
Attacks:
Normal Attack: +30 to hit/26 damage
Normal Power Attack: +26 to hit/34 damage
Flurry: +33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18 || 26 damage
Power Attack Flurry: +27/+27/+22/+22/+17/+17/+12 || 38 damage
Stunning fist (20/day) and Quivering palm(1/day) DC = 26
Stunning fist effect: Stun for 1round, or fatigued, or sickened for 1min, or staggered for 1d6+1 rounds, or permanently blind or deaf, or paralyzed for 1d6+1 rounds
Quivering palm effect: death
Ki pool = 16 = 10(lvl/2) + 6wis
With at least 1 ki point treat fist as magic, cold iron, silver, lawful, and adamantine for overcoming DR and hardness (doesn’t matter much since +5 amulet cuts through most DR)
Ki powers:
1 additional attack per round; 1 point and a swift action
Increase Speed by 20 for 1 round: 1 point and a swift action
+4 dodge bonus for 1 round; 1 point and a swift action
+20 to jump check for 1 round; 1 point and a swift action
Heal Monk level HP; 2 points and a standard action
Teleport 1200ft; 2 points and a move action
Ethereal for 1min; 3 points and a move action
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Some monks from Lormyr
Additionally, most of the common spells used for such things (enlarge person, righteous might, ect.) have this text in their description:
"Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."
The reason that strong jaw works with any size increase is because of it's wording, notably it does not actually increase your size:
"Laying a hand upon an allied creature's jaw, claws, tentacles, or other natural weapons, you enhance the power of that creature's natural attacks. Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is. If the creature is already Gargantuan or Colossal-sized, double the amount of damage dealt by each of its natural attacks instead. This spell does not actually change the creature's size; all of its statistics except the amount of damage dealt by its natural attacks remain unchanged."
A strongly damage max monk [ki mystic/weapon adept/qinggong] would have a Strength of 49:
18 base
2 race
5 level up
6 inherent (orc eldritch heritage)
6 belt
2 weapon adept level 20
10 size from turning into a gargantuan earth elemental
And would run Arcane Strike, Power Attack, Celestial Obedience to shape change into said elemental, boots of speed, an +5 amulet of mighty fists, and easily self-employed scrolls of strong jaw for an attack routine of:
18 BAB
19 Str
1 weapon focus
5 amulet
1 competence
1 morale
1 haste
-3 size
-6 Power Attack
to hit, and...
28 Str
5 amulet
1 quain martial artist
5 Arcane Strike
12 Power Attack
damage, for...
+37/+37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+27/+22 (16d8+51/19-20). He would also be rolling 2d20 for each attack roll and keeping the best result.
Medium Outsider (native)
Init +17, Senses Perception +35
DEFENSE
AC 52 (+12 Dex, +8 Wis, +5 monk, +8 armor, +5 deflection, +1 dodge, +1 insight, +2 luck), touch 44, flat-footed 39; +4 sacred bonus against attacks of opportunity made with natural attacks
hp 263 (20d8+160)
Fort +28, Ref +33, Will +29
OFFENSE
Speed 90 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +34/+29/+24 (2d10+17/19-20 x2) or
Melee unarmed strike +37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+27/+22 (2d10+17/19-20 x2) with Flurry of Blows
STATISTICS
Str 11, Dex 34, Con 24, Int 13, Wis 26, Cha 7
Base Atk +15; CMB +41 (+43 disarm and trip); CMD 61 (63 vs. disarm, grapple, and reposition; 65 vs. trip)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Blind-Fight, Celestial Obedience, Combat Expertise, Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Critical (unarmed strike), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Medusa's Wrath, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Traits Fate's Favored, Quain Martial Artist
Skills Acrobatics +25, Escape Artist +39, Perception +35, Sense Motive +37, Stealth +39, Use Magic Device +16
Features Abundant step (2 ki), barkskin (1 ki), blood crow strike (2 ki), cold ice strike (DC 28; 3 ki), courageous roar, darkvision, dauntless, deathless spirit, diamond body, diamond soul, empty body (3 ki), evasion, fast movement, flurry of blows, improved evasion, ki pool (adamantine, cold iron, lawful, magic, silver) 18, maneuver training, native outsider, obedience, perfect self, purity of body, quivering palm (DC 28) 1/day, scorching ray (2 ki), spell-like abilities (3/day- stilled greater heroism (as 7th-level spell); 1/day- heroism, see invisibility. CL 20th.), still mind, stunning fist (blind or deafened, fatigued, sickened, staggered; DC 28) 20/day, truespeaker, unarmed strike, wholeness of body (2 ki)
Combat Gear none Other Gear +4 agile amulet of mighty fists, bane baldric (attuned to unarmed strike), belt of physical might (Constitution and Dexterity) +6, boots of speed, bracers of armor +8, cloak of resistance +5, headband of inspired wisdom +6, dusty rose prism ioun stone, flawed pale green prism ioun stone, pale green prism ioun stone, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, ring of ki mastery (storing 2 ki), ring of protection +5, rod of balance, staff of minor arcana, stone of good luck, wayfinder
Ioun Stones Note The dusty rose prism ioun stone is slotted into Monk's wayfinder. All other ioun stones are implanted into his body.
Manuals and Tomes Monk has read a manual of bodily health +4, a manual of quickness of action +5, and a tome of understanding +5.
Notes: This statline does not include any of the following: barkskin, greater heroism, see invisibility, shield, Combat Expertise, or fighting defensively. With these things active, his combat statline appears as follows:
AC 71 (+12 Dex, +8 Wis, +5 monk, +8 armor, +5 deflection, +11 dodge, +1 insight, +2 luck, +5 natural, +4 shield), touch 54, flat-footed 48; +4 sacred bonus against attacks of opportunity made with natural attacks
hp 263 (20d8+160)
Fort +31, Ref +36, Will +32
OFFENSE
Speed 90 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +32/+27/+22 (2d10+17/19-20 x2) or
Melee unarmed strike +35/+35/+30/+30/+25/+25/+20 (2d10+17/19-20 x2) with Flurry of Blows
STATISTICS
Str 11, Dex 34, Con 24, Int 13, Wis 26, Cha 7
Base Atk +15; CMB +39 (+41 disarm and trip); CMD 71 (73 vs. disarm, grapple, and reposition; 75 vs. trip)
In addition to the above, he can spend ki for ki dodge (+4 dodge bonus to AC and CMD), and active his bane baldric and boots of haste. These things are of very limited duration however, so are not reflected in the stat blocks above.
Str build monk. non-core, 20 point buy, 880k gold with no custom items.
Human Monk (Qinggong Monk) 20; AL LN
Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +4, Senses Perception +31
DEFENSE
AC 48 (+4 Dex, +7 Wis, +5 monk, +8 armor, +5 deflection, +1 dodge, +1 insight, +2 luck, +5 natural), touch 35, flat-footed 43
hp 203 (20d8+100)
Fort +22, Ref +22, Will +25
OFFENSE
Speed 90 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +36/+31/+26 (4d8+27/19-20 x2) or
Melee unarmed strike +39/+39/+34/+34/+29/+29/+24 (4d8+27/19-20 x2) with Flurry of Blows
Melee unarmed strike +35/+35/+30/+30/+25/+25/+20 (4d8+40/19-20 x2) with Flurry of Blows, Arcane Strike, and Power Attack
Ranged n/a
STATISTICS
Str 38, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 24, Cha 7
Base Atk +15; CMB +44 (+48 disarm, grapple, trip); CMD 70 (72 disarm, grapple, and trip)
Feats Arcane Strike, Blind-Fight, Dodge, Dragon Ferocity, Dragon's Roar, Dragon Style, Greater Disarm, Greater Grapple, Greater Trip, Improved Critical (unarmed strike), Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Medusa's Wrath, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Traits Fate's Favored, Quain Martial Artist
Skills Acrobatics +28, Escape Artist +28, Perception +31, Sense Motive +31
Features Abundant step (2 ki), barkskin (1 ki), blood crow strike (2 ki), cold ice strike (DC 27; 3 ki), diamond body, diamond soul, dual talent, empty body (3 ki), evasion, fast movement, flurry of blows, improved evasion, ki pool (adamantine, cold iron, lawful, magic, silver) 17, maneuver training, purity of body, quivering palm (DC 27) 1/day, scorching ray (2 ki), still mind, stunning fist (blind or deafened, fatigued, sickened, staggered; DC 27) 20/day, unarmed strike, wholeness of body (2 ki)
Combat Gear none; Other Gear +5 amulet of mighty fists, belt of physical perfection +6, boots of speed, bracers of armor +8, headband of inspired wisdom +6, 2 cracked pale green prism ioun stones (attack rolls and saving throws), dusty rose prism ioun stone, flawed pale green prism ioun stone, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, juggernaut's pauldrons, otherwordly's kimono, ring of protection +5, wayfinder, manual of gainful exercise +5, manual of quickness in action +2, tome of understanding +4
Ioun Stones Note The dusty rose prism ioun stone is slotted into Monk's wayfinder. All other ioun stones are implanted into his body.
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What, in your opinion, is the most powerful monk archtype?
What do you think?
Magus with a level of Cleric.
off th very top of my head, and having not read the thread (yet), i'd say a zen archer, since they're at least focused in what they do, and run into very few of the general "monk issues".
The monk loses a fair bit in DPR for their monk abilities, skill points, skill list, and saves.
Monk is a mobile stealth acrobatics character than can consistently contribute in combat. Unlike certain classes (*cough* rogue *cough*) at least the monk is functional.
A commoner can consistently "contribute" in combat...just not very much. The rogue has a role and can fulfil it - his weakness comes from being unable to do much outside that role, and the fact that other classes (bard, ranger, inquisitor) can perform that role and more besides. The monk can't really fulfil his role as stated. He's a combat class not intrinsically good at combat.
Then again, we've had this debate before...I'll agree both classes are weak and need improvement, and leave it at that.
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Manuever Masters don't suffer at all. Level 4 my natural-attacking Tengu Manuever master was getting +15 trips with 4 attacks/round, and doing solid damage.
The key to manuever master is to exploit every point you can get; and honestly, realize it's better as a 6-level splash than a 20-level class. Once you get the Wisdom to manuevers and the 6th level feat you don't have any gain.
At the very least, it's probably the best 1-level splash in the game. What class gives a feat, +2 to all saves, and a free extra attack that doesn't interfere with your "regular" attacks?
My Fighter/Manuever Master is regularly referred to as "overpowered" by the two-weapon gunfighters and wizards of the party :).
At high levels (I'm currently 10), I'm still fine Dirty tricking people blind and punching them in the stomach to nauseate them, even given the free action/flying enemies. Only incoporeals really bother me. As to hitting high DCs, I'm +35 with trip, +31 with Grapple and Dirty Trick (assuming I use my swift action for that manuever, -4 if I used it for another manuever). I get 8 attacks per round and deal solid enough damage (d8+11 per hit for unarmed strikes, d3+7 for natural attacks, and 2 AOOs if I do get to trip someone, which is admittingly becoming rare with all of the flying/incoporeals around me).
As to the monktopus, it is TERRIBLE at low levels; but quite powerful once you pull off all of your combos. It is quite funny though, quite good too. Manuever masters are quite good at ALL levels of play if built correctly; you just have to make sure to focus on all 3 parts of the "good manuever" trifecto (Trip, Grapple, and Dirty Trick).
The monk loses a fair bit in DPR for their monk abilities, skill points, skill list, and saves.
Monk is a mobile stealth acrobatics character than can consistently contribute in combat. Unlike certain classes (*cough* rogue *cough*) at least the monk is functional.
A commoner can consistently "contribute" in combat...just not very much. The rogue has a role and can fulfil it - his weakness comes from being unable to do much outside that role, and the fact that other classes (bard, ranger, inquisitor) can perform that role and more besides. The monk can't really fulfil his role as stated. He's a combat class not intrinsically good at combat.
Then again, we've had this debate before...I'll agree both classes are weak and need improvement, and leave it at that.
I don't consider base weapon damage contributing. In that sense the monk is at least a functional class that works as advertised unlike the rogue.
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I would like to have also added quing gong monk to the build but there really isn't anything left to trade out. So yes, it's basically an entirely new version of the monk. :)
The class is versatile. Most powerful monk is really relative. Most people default to the monks that attempt to do vanilla things like just hit hard and hit often and avoid getting hit reasonably well and making saves reasonably often. The benchmark most people measure by is how much like a raw DPs class can you make a monk. I hate this scale of measurement. Most optimized DPs builds wouldn't be able to touch my monk and would eventually (very slowly) die to it. Mostly from his bad breath. But anyway, most powerful monk direct tank? Probably my build or something similar or a flowing monk variant (which I heavily considered). Most powerful indirect tanks (ie. Using manievers or reach and DPs etc) up for debate. Most powerful DPs build tend to be four winds, zen archer, sohei and things with dragon style. Many people do forget that drunken master, when done right, can contribute substantially to DPs via drunken strike or whatever it is called, and\or abusing qi gong and drunken ki with the proper abilities, depending on your level and needs.
Monk of the lotus is totally cool for charming things to assist you. Remember, in real games and society play, if all you are good at is just killing stuff with super dps and high hit chance and ac, your not really going to be that useful in enough situations. Being able to charm a monster into helping you navigate a dungeon or taking you to secret room you would otherwise have missed, or being able to use the monster as an ally down the road because he wasn't split in two by the super DPs god can come in handy. And I just love the touch of serenity feat. Sensei is neat as well. Support ftw.
Tetori and maneuver master are powerful in their own rights insofar as battlefield control or the finer points of neutralization. But the end all be all of all monks and power of all types is simply and easily this one: monk if the healing hand.
Look dragon style plus arcane strike will give OP the damage he wants
Not power attacking will give him the to-hit he needs.
Make sure to take Qinggong for the SLA needed for arcane strike and you are good.