BPorter |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
(This isn’t a full review, just a first-impression after a preliminary read-through.)
Magic shop discounts, full-on Victorian outfits, pith helmets, & clockwork “bugs”?!?
I’m all for supporting many varied playstyles with a campaign setting. I love the diverse cultural influences. I like kitchen sink settings. However, a setting that never says no isn’t inclusive, it’s a flavorless mess. It’s like Paizo flushed editorial oversight down the drain.
So why is a former colony more advanced than its parent nation (Sargava vs. Cheliax)? Sure a pith hat is an article of clothing but the only reason for including it is b/c pulp-era movies had British soldiers wearing Pith helmets. Are we that lazy as gamers that we can’t imagine adventuring in an African analogue without having to see items & imagery more consistent with a Tarzan movie? Who knew that a relatively isolated colony is at the avant-garde of fashion while its founding nation is so backward? Hey, maybe during that Reign of Winter jaunt to Earth, we should swing by Saragava and pick up attire that will help us blend in...
Hey fantasy espionage just got revolutionized by an 1100 gp magic item! I’m sure that will constitute a huge financial burden to spy networks and adventuring parties alike.
How about morphing blades that can attack targets simultaneously!? Yeah, that doesn’t seem overpowered or contrived…
Say, it’s not the quality of your armor or the skill of the smith that counts, it’s all in how you work your anvil, baby…
I'm pretty freaking happy with what’s been coming out of the RPG line. (You even got me to like “epic” stuff with Mythic Adventures.) Paizo’s done a pretty good job of keeping a lid on power-creep. Unfortunately, there appears to be a content-equivalent of power/scope-creep going on outside of the Pathfinder RPG line.
I’ve been a Golarion fan since Rise of the Runelords #1. I certainly don’t think a setting needs a narrow focus or shtick to work like a Ravenloft, Midnight, or Iron Kingdoms. But it needs to have some attempt to adhere to an internal consistency. The kind of stuff introduced in this book helps push Golarion towards being a jumbled mess, not an expansive, imaginative, or consistent setting.
Despite being a Companion fan from its earliest days, I dropped my subscription to the Companion line a few months ago as it seemed to be morphing into a power-creep line. I re-upped it b/c some of the books coming down the line were on topics that were of interest. I’m rapidly reaching the “why even bother?” point.
Sadly, between questionable anachronistic elements and mechanics like I’ve cited above, this book is not a good addition to a Golarion library or an incentive to maintain a Companion subscription.
Sarcasmancer |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A song for OP, by Sarcasmancer
Just because the option exists, doesn't mean you have to use it
If one of your players wants to buy the equipment, refuse it
If you don't like robots, don't set your game in Numeria
If you don't like summoners, you don't have to let em near ya
If you don't like what's in a book, don't buy it
Don't disparage others for having different tastes - just try it!
BPorter |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A song for OP, by Sarcasmancer
Just because the option exists, doesn't mean you have to use it
If one of your players wants to buy the equipment, refuse it
If you don't like robots, don't set your game in Numeria
If you don't like summoners, you don't have to let em near ya
If you don't like what's in a book, don't buy it
Don't disparage others for having different tastes - just try it!
A) I already bought it
B) I'm actually ok with androids/robots & numeria b/c it's tied to the setting canon in a particular area.C) Summoners, what about 'em?
D) Equipment, well duh, but that doesn't mean I have to like the creative turn that's leading to stuff like clockwork listening devices or morphing swords that multi-attack
E) Who exactly did I disparage?
I get the point you're making. I'm about as pro-Paizo, pro-Pathfinder, and pro-Golarion as they come. That doesn't mean that I have to blindly agree with every creative turn that they take.
Sarcasmancer |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |
My song was intended more as general advice, I know you didn't mention Numeria or summoners. This:
The kind of stuff introduced in this book helps push Golarion towards being a jumbled mess, not an expansive, imaginative, or consistent setting.
I took as being disparaging. The stuff that you don't like, maybe somebody else thinks is cool.
I think most of the mini-settings are internally and thematically consistent. Some people like Tarzan-esque pulpy adventure or steampunk influence in their gaming, and I'm glad there's room for that on Golarion without it being intrusive into, say, the lands of the Linnorm Kings.
Cpt_kirstov |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Magic shop discounts, full-on Victorian outfits, pith helmets, & clockwork “bugs”?!?
...So why is a former colony more advanced than its parent nation (Sargava vs. Cheliax)? Sure a pith hat is an article of clothing but the only reason for including it is b/c pulp-era movies had British soldiers wearing Pith helmets. Are we that lazy as gamers that we can’t imagine adventuring in an African analogue without having to see items & imagery more consistent with a Tarzan movie?
Well the Pith helmets have been in the settign since the first Campaign setting hardcover (see this blog post with the art) in 2008, so its not a repetitively new phenomenon that this is in the setting. I have not read my Magical Marketplaces book yet, preferring to read hard copies to PDFs, but glancing at the item, its one magical item in a shop.. If you didn't have the Pith helmets there before this book, even though it was in the art of the area for years, there's nothing forcing you to use it now.
It was mentioned by James that the picture I linked to made Pith helmets look too commonplace, I guess a way to not have it be so common is to make it magic only, and more expensive than many in world people get in their lifetimes...
BPorter |
Well the Pith helmets have been in the settign since the first Campaign setting hardcover (see this blog post with the art) in 2008, so its not a repetitively new phenomenon that this is in the setting. I have not read my Magical Marketplaces book yet, preferring to read hard copies to PDFs, but glancing at the item, its one magical item in a shop.. If you didn't have the Pith helmets there before this book, even though it was in the art of the area for years, there's nothing forcing you to use it now.
It was mentioned by James that the picture I linked to made Pith helmets look too commonplace, I guess a way to not have it be so common is to make it magic only, and more expensive than many in world people get in their lifetimes...
No, they haven't been. That picture was cut from the original Inner Sea Campaign setting. Per James Jacobs, they felt that upon further reflection it didn't "feel Golarion".
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
I will say that having picked up the book, the prosthetic are *extremely* useful to one of the campaigns I'm in. We have a forgemaster cleric as a cohort who has been trying to figure out how to build construct prosthetic limbs; our campaign is a Kingdom Building game set in a jungle, and with the number of civilian disfigurements we deal with on a weekly basis, prosthetic limbs came up in conversation as a solution. These items was absolutely perfect for our needs.
GM Lamplighter |
And of course, the option to use it or not only exists in home games. The flavor of the Pathfinder Society campaign has been changing steadily as new "options" become available. Of course, your Organized Play campaign has to allow all (most) of the options, or it doesn't do it's job of promoting the game... but there are those who may not want to go along with the steampunk/western/gaslight themes that are becoming more prominent simply because they're the "new" thing.
Jeven |
There seems to be a rise in victorian era and steampunk stuff, slowly, though and that makes a setting different over time.
I think its more natural to view Golarion as a C19th-like setting minus the gunpowder.
So basically Napoleonic- to Victorian-era but with swords, bows and armor.Ruike |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I respect your opinion, and in some respects I agree with you. It doesn't look like Arthurian fantasy to have a bunch of Victorian stuff in it but on the other hand, things are allowed to change in a game to an extent. It isn't a cut and dry snapshot of a real time period, it is a fantasy realm complete with working magic and we're lucky enough for them to make a living world with society play. Each area of Golarion has its own style with its own resources so it would make sense that some things may come about differently than in real life. I like steampunk but I haven't been looking for it in Pathfinder because like I mentioned earlier, its compartmentalized. I'm not going to admonish them for the option, I'm just not going to use it.
Luthorne |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Eh.
Pith helmets aren't exactly high tech. They're just hats...made out of plant tissue. I believe the kind used in pith helmets is regional to Asiatic regions, which doesn't quite jive with Garund, but there's plenty of conceptual cross-pollination going on in Golarion anyways, so them making a hat out of a convenient plant in the area that isn't up in Avistan doesn't really seem that odd. Not sure I'd say it's more advanced than some of the crazy hats we've had, pretty simplistic, really. You can say you don't like it from an aesthetic standpoint, though, not much helping your personal tastes.
Personally, I always thought there was going to be some sort of magical method to spy on people, so clockwork bugs don't really bother me. My reaction was more of, "Finally, that niche was filled!" It's also got a number of limitations as to how it can be used, such as needing to be placed in the area at least twenty-four hours before the conversation you want to listen to and needing to know exactly when the conversation is going to start if so, requiring a finicky Disable Device check to replace the gemstone while keeping the information on it intact, etc. Still useful, mind, and it's nice that it's affordable at a relatively low level for people who want to play spy games.
I really don't understand how you can find the lacerating rapier to be overpowered, though. Yes, it does allow you to attack two people at once...three times a day...only if you have sneak attack...when both of them are right next to each other...and only one of them takes sneak attack damage...for over 10k gold. Considering that most characters with sneak attack damage aren't doing a huge amount of damage without the added sneak attack damage...and if they were, they would probably want a weapon they could wield with both hands to do so...I really don't see it as a problem.
And the anvil equipment trick is certainly a bit silly, but I don't think it really makes that much of a difference, since improving the armor is temporary, and you can't snag it until you have five ranks in Craft (armor)...which means that it is the armor (since that's still the base armor AC bonus) and the skill of the smith (since the feat doesn't let you do it unless you have the ranks). If anything, it's a gimmicky little trick a smith can learn to do (by taking the feat) that's more a con than anything, considering how easily this 'improvement' vanishes.
In general, I don't think I agree with you when it comes to mechanics (with perhaps the exception of saline purge). Really, I found plenty to be ho-hum, overpriced for the effect they provide, though there were certainly some options I thought were fairly reasonably priced, making me consider being actually willing to spend money on some of them, and even some that I thought were quite cool. The anachronistic elements, on the other hand, are more about personal taste, I suppose...it certainly didn't bother me, at any rate, but I've never been terribly bothered by varying levels of technology in a fantasy setting with a fair bit of magic in the right places. Azlant tried to terraform the moon thousands of years ago, a wizard got tired of politics and moved to take up residence in the sun, Absalom has the Clockwork Cathedral...eh. I just don't have your perspective there. I'll just chalk it up to your tastes not matching mine and leave it at that?
Adam Teles |
The lacerating rapier is a sad joke, like most rogue related stuff.
The anvil trick is interesting, considering that an anvil weight was 200lbs so far. Looks like a dwarven mainly option.
Muleback cords are a hell of a drug, as is the Ant Haul spell. I had a Master Chemyst whose primary attack form was throwing anvils at people.
Ron Lundeen Contributor |
jjclackey |
I'm all for the idea of magical and technological development happening in the world. It gives the setting a sense of life. General understanding of magic and science shouldn't stagnate. Not to mention the fact that it's stated in the Gamemastery Guide that anachronisms shouldn't be that big a deal. Cultures advance at different rates in different areas, and besides, Golarion isn't Earth - particularly in that Earth doesn't have magic. It makes sense that a world with magic would advance more quickly.
StarMartyr365 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I love the mix of genres. It's part of what makes the Inner Sea what it is and not Middle Earth/Forgotten Realms redux.
THIS!
So many time this! I love the mix that Golarion offers. I can't wait to play Iron Gods. That is the campaign that I've been wanting to lay since I started gaming.
I've been gaming since the original DnD Red Box and I'm bored to tears with vanilla fantasy. While I still love my Forgotten Realms* and will adventure there until I die I like having the option to explore other genres and other times within the same game system. I was really excited about Eberron when it came out but I never got a chance to adventure there.
SM
*I use my own timeline and the atrocity that is 4E Forgotten Realms never happened.
LazarX |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So why is a former colony more advanced than its parent nation (Sargava vs. Cheliax)?
It's not without precedent. The American colonies underwent a period of technological advancement that overtook the British. And Thera, while a colony of the Minoan empire is known for having had housing amenities such as indoor plumbing that Crete did not.