Party without casters, need to stay alive


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I'm in an 11th lvl party without a full caster. What's a good way for me to be able to overcome things like invisible creatures, flying creatures, Deeper Darkness, etc.?


Do you have at least a bard or inquisitor in the party for spell support? Without as much as that, I would suggest to reroll right away into an actual caster, unless the whole purpose of the campaign is to play low magic.


The Use Magic Device skill will likely be very helpful here. What class are you playing? What classes do your allies have?


potions of see invisibility, someone with UMD can cast glitterdust, or see invisibility


Leadership?


Jurkal wrote:
potions of see invisibility, someone with UMD can cast glitterdust, or see invisibility

Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions. So no See Invisibility potions.

UMD is the way to go, or take Leadership and spellcaster cohort.

Silver Crusade

Hope the GM doesn't pit your party against any full casters.


What exactly is your party. Would be easier to give advice with context. I'd hope at least one of them took one of the anticaster archetypes. If not they may be hosed if they lose initiative/surprise


One things for sure, Will is the most overrated save, y'all could probably get away with dumping WIS completely.


Find ruins of a castle that was cleared but no one could unlock the high mage's treasury. Make the rogue in your party take a 20, add a hero point, and the rest of his bonuses so he can unlock it. Take the magic loot you found there, and hopefully you find an item with wishes in it. Wish there was no such thing as magic.

Rinse and Repeat until one of two things happens.
1) You get the wish off.
2) You get so high level from wandering all over the place that literally nothing can kill you, go kill a few gods, rip the mages that pissed you off from their magic, and you win.

Until then, I suggest you do what Mak and Ryn suggested.


Invis vs Bag of Flour, Flyer, Bow and Arrow, Deeper Darkness, Move out of the darkness. All not ideal but all are very simple solutions to fingerwaggling problems.


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The GM should be taking your party's capabilities (and deficiencies) into account while doing encounter design, and using things you can't deal with sparingly.

Liberty's Edge

The only casters in the party is an alchemist and paladin.

Not a fan of Leadership, but may have to talk to the DM about that if it comes to it. I can make do with a fly potion, but worried about invisible creatures, and Deeper Darkness.


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Coinshot Colton wrote:

The only casters in the party is an alchemist and paladin.

Not a fan of Leadership, but may have to talk to the DM about that if it comes to it. I can make do with a fly potion, but worried about invisible creatures, and Deeper Darkness.

Then who needs a full caster?

You have both arcane and divine roles filled. Make sure you have access to NPC clerics and Wizards out-side of combat for certain services like resurrection and teleport.

IMO fullcasters are over rated in PF.

Shadow Lodge

Counter deeper darkness with oils of daylight and use it as a missile or just break it at your feet.

Scarab Sages

To counter Invisibility use flour, to counter flyers use a bow, to counter deeper darkness use non-magical light and have darkvision.

Deeper darkness lowers the light level by two steps and dispels light spells lower than lvl 4. Torches spread normal light in 20' radius, and is not magic (so cannot be dispelled). Thus a person who has darkvision, is holding a torch, and right in the middle of a Deeper Darkness has a 20' radius of normal, non-supernatural, darkness around him and increases the ambient light level for 20' beyond the darkness spell. If you are wielding a shield you can go for a Shield Sconce so you still have a weapon.

If none of you have darkvision and find yourself in a Deeper Darkness you could try persuading the DM that the burst of light created by Flash Powder is enough to see what squares enemies are in, though you would still get the 50% miss chance for not being able to see when you attacked them.

Both the casters can use Cure Light Wounds, you're fine.

Dark Archive

Mikhail wrote:
Jurkal wrote:
potions of see invisibility, someone with UMD can cast glitterdust, or see invisibility

Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions. So no See Invisibility potions.

UMD is the way to go, or take Leadership and spellcaster cohort.

How is it possible to have potions of bull strength if you can have personal potions?

Scarab Sages

because Bull's Strength (or any of the main stat enhancing spells) is a touch range spell.

Shadow Lodge

Bull strength spell is touch not personal. Shield spell is an example of a personal spell, the caster can only cast on thier self not on anyone else.


Coinshot Colton wrote:
I'm in an 11th lvl party without a full caster. What's a good way for me to be able to overcome things like invisible creatures, flying creatures, Deeper Darkness, etc.?

How have you been doing it?

By 11th level I would have expected most if not all these things to have happened at some point. Are you new to a preexisting party? Or did the group start play at 11th? If not I'd say your GM is already designing encounters so as to account for your party makeup.

Liberty's Edge

We're starting at 11th level.

Thanks for all the advice, especially the one about using a torch to bring Deeper Darkness to darkvision lighting, that'll work really well!

Invisible creatures may still be difficult, but hopefully the alchemist can help out in that case.

Shadow Lodge

Timebomb wrote:

To counter Invisibility use flour, to counter flyers use a bow, to counter deeper darkness use non-magical light and have darkvision.

Deeper darkness lowers the light level by two steps and dispels light spells lower than lvl 4. Torches spread normal light in 20' radius, and is not magic (so cannot be dispelled). Thus a person who has darkvision, is holding a torch, and right in the middle of a Deeper Darkness has a 20' radius of normal, non-supernatural, darkness around him and increases the ambient light level for 20' beyond the darkness spell. If you are wielding a shield you can go for a Shield Sconce so you still have a weapon.

If none of you have darkvision and find yourself in a Deeper Darkness you could try persuading the DM that the burst of light created by Flash Powder is enough to see what squares enemies are in, though you would still get the 50% miss chance for not being able to see when you attacked them.

Both the casters can use Cure Light Wounds, you're fine.

The bold part of this statement is incorrect. If you read the Darkness spell it says this "Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness."

so having any kind of normal light scourse doesnt help when faced with Darkness or Deeper Darkness.


master_marshmallow wrote:
One things for sure, Will is the most overrated save, y'all could probably get away with dumping WIS completely.

It really depends on the GM.

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