Can I use multiple shields, just for the properties? Obviously the shield bonuses don't stack for AC, but could I have say, a +5 animated heavy steel shield for AC and also have a +1 Buckler of Heavy Fortification?
Shields are a type of armor and fall under the armor rules.
Armor only uses the more powerful of the two bonuses, and the other is considered to be inert.
I.e. wearing plate mail +2 over +1 cloth armor of Fortification annuls the latter.
This was done precisely to stop Bracers of Armor and Armor Cheese from stacking, as well as the fact that, yes, you actually do tend to wear leather or padded armor under heavy armor, so why not reduce the cost and get the advantage of multiple properties?
Personally, I wouldn't care for armor, but I'd definitely look down on dual shields as cheese.
==Aelryinth
Not in this case. You can use properties for attacking if you dual wield with shields and/or 1 shield for attacking, the other for defending. I think there is a way to cheese this. I'll work on it for the next few minutes.
You could employ the weapon properties, sure.
he's referring to the armor properties, which won't stack.
==Aelryinth
Initial looks show a maximum shield bonus to AC of 13. I'm still looking for a way to add heavy fortification to it.
The following example is a way to stack shield property bonuses.
Shield 1:
Heavy Steel Shield +5 of Heavy Fortification
Shield 2:
Light Steel Shield +1/Spiked +5 of Defending, Dueling, and Dancing Weapon
Total Bonus:
+2 shield AC/+5 enhancement bonus to shield AC/+5 non-specific bonus to AC/+4 initiative/+2 CMB to Disarm and Feint/+2 CMD to resist Disarm and +2 to the DC for enemies to Feint against you/shield 2 attacks other creatures at your BAB 1/round
I agree with Aelryinth about dual shields being cheese. The above 2 item combo would be significantly cheaper if combined into one item. Players sometimes like using two tower shields - one to prevent attacks from one direction and the other to use for the +4 shield bonus.
You're stacking a shield and weapon combo bonus, not two shield bonuses.
In other words, you're tacitly doing what I noted! :)
==Aelryinth
Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. It's possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as 15 magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body, known as a “slot.”
A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which slot on the body the item is worn.
Armor: suits of armor.
Belts: belts and girdles.
Body: robes and vestments.
Chest: mantles, shirts, and vests.
Eyes: eyes, glasses, and goggles.
Feet: boots, shoes, and slippers.
Hands: gauntlets and gloves.
Head: circlets, crowns, hats, helms, and masks.
Headband: headbands and phylacteries.
Neck: amulets, brooches, medallions, necklaces, periapts, and scarabs.
Ring (up to two): rings.
Shield: shields.
Shoulders: capes and cloaks.
Wrist: bracelets and bracers.
Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those in the slots listed above have no effect.
Some items can be worn or carried without taking up a slot on a character's body. The description of an item indicates when an item has this property.
As per the section of rules above, you only have one "Shield" slot and therefore, while you may wield two shields as weapons, you can only benefit from the Shield Special Abilities of one at a time. What is interesting about that is it would seem that there would then be no point in putting the Bashing property on both shields since only one could apply at a time. Unless of course you can switch which shield's bonuses apply as a free or no action, but that could get messy book keeping wise.
Shields are a type of armor and fall under the armor rules.
Armor only uses the more powerful of the two bonuses, and the other is considered to be inert.
I.e. wearing plate mail +2 over +1 cloth armor of Fortification annuls the latter.
This was done precisely to stop Bracers of Armor and Armor Cheese from stacking, as well as the fact that, yes, you actually do tend to wear leather or padded armor under heavy armor, so why not reduce the cost and get the advantage of multiple properties?
Personally, I wouldn't care for armor, but I'd definitely look down on dual shields as cheese.
==Aelryinth
- Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack.
- If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities.
- If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.
Note that if the bracers grant the same amount of armor, it does work. I.e.: Leather Armor +1 with Heavy Fortification and Bracers +3 with Spell Resistance 19. The LA+1 gives +3 and the Bracers give +3. Neither is larger, so neither ceases functioning. They don't stack so you are still at AC +3, but you also get SR19 and Heavy Fortification by RAW.
I don't think you can use a rule specific to Bracers of Armor on shields.
/cevah
My houseruling (and it would also be my ruling on PFS tables) is that the magical properties of both types of armor in this case neutralize each other. Mainly because I take a very dim view of people who cheese loopholes in the rules by extreme corner interpretations such as this. This is what I will do at table and those who disagree are ENCOURAGED to report me.Note that if the bracers grant the same amount of armor, it does work. I.e.: Leather Armor +1 with Heavy Fortification and Bracers +3 with Spell Resistance 19. The LA+1 gives +3 and the Bracers give +3. Neither is larger, so neither ceases functioning. They don't stack so you are still at AC +3, but you also get SR19 and Heavy Fortification by RAW.
- Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack.
- If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities.
- If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.
Cheese? Probably.
Interpretation? I don't think so. I said by RAW. You have two specific situations called out where something is canceled. Neither is satisfied.On a separate note:
Shields are a type of armor and fall under the armor rules.
Where is this said? Cite?
Shields provide a Shield bonus not an Armor bonus.Armor only uses the more powerful of the two bonuses, and the other is considered to be inert.
I.e. wearing plate mail +2 over +1 cloth armor of Fortification annuls the latter.
I recall a rule about donning a second item in a slot causing the first one to be non-functional. I think it was in 3.5. I don't see it in PF. I do see a limit of one magic item per slot. As to using Leather under Plate mail, I think the description of Plate mail actually includes the leather garment.
/cevah
Kindly look in the magic items sections under Armor Enhancements. Lo and behold, it includes all Shield bonuses and effects. Shield AC is actually a subset of Armor AC for most purposes.
==Aelryinth
Not to mention that the mundane qualities and properties of shields are included in the Armor section.
As to the OP, I agree with the overall consensus: You can carry two enhanced shields and benefit from the weapon\offensive capabilities of both, but you can only benefit from the defensive enhancements (magical or otherwise) from one or the other - in this case, probably whichever has the higher effective AC bonus.
Kindly look in the magic items sections under Armor Enhancements. Lo and behold, it includes all Shield bonuses and effects. Shield AC is actually a subset of Armor AC for most purposes.
==Aelryinth
The heading does say "Armor", both there and in the equipment section, but the text nearly always mentions shields as distinct from armor. For example, in the magic enchantment section:
ARMOR
In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1.
Similar text is used in the equipment section most of the time.
I agree that shields are found intermixed with armor, but I read the above as them being a separate thing and not a subset. That is why I objected to your calling shields "armor".
/cevah