Ambiguous Rules


Rules Questions


In this thread, I am seeking GMs and players to post rules they find conflicting, ambiguous, or unclear; rules that GMs have to rule on when they come up during a gaming session. To start off this thread:

Can players see beyond their perception bonus + 200 feet?
Does Ride-By attack imply overrunning/trampling their target to continue moving or allowing charging in a not direct line or require charging directly towards the target, then provoke an attack of opportunity to continue moving that round?
Does crafting magical items with reductions to crafting price reduce the final sale price of the item?
Can a player who uses their first swift action substitute their move action or standard action for another swift action in the same round?

Grand Lodge

Some rules are meant to be somewhat ambiguous.


My question is about illusions and saving throws to disbelieve:
If you interact with the illusion once and fail your save, do you get to save against the illusion every time you interact with it again, or are you stuck believing the illusion unless you get incontrovertible proof or are told by someone else that it is an illusion?

vvv Answer to question below: vvv
Yes, but there are some rules that are very difficult to interpret based on existing text. For example, negative levels are handled differently in the Bestiery vs the core rule book.


Isn't this what this entire forum is for?


Mapleswitch wrote:

In this thread, I am seeking GMs and players to post rules they find conflicting, ambiguous, or unclear; rules that GMs have to rule on when they come up during a gaming session. To start off this thread:

Can players see beyond their perception bonus + 200 feet?

Sure. They see the stars, after all. This rule applies to noticing things like approaching creatures and NPCs or rolling boulders, not the hard limit of their vision.

Quote:
Does Ride-By attack imply overrunning/trampling their target to continue moving or allowing charging in a not direct line or require charging directly towards the target, then provoke an attack of opportunity to continue moving that round?

You never provoke from your charge target with Ride By. You have to charge towards the nearest square, but your mount could be "aimed" in any direction, as long as one of its 4 squares passes through. You can either continue in your straight line past him, or you can attempt an overrun.

Quote:
Does crafting magical items with reductions to crafting price reduce the final sale price of the item?

No. Not inherently anyway. You're free to cut deeper into your margins to make a sale, of course.

Quote:
Can a player who uses their first swift action substitute their move action or standard action for another swift action in the same round?

No; this would allow more than one Quickened spell per round.


Fergie wrote:

My question is about illusions and saving throws to disbelieve:

If you interact with the illusion once and fail your save, do you get to save against the illusion every time you interact with it again, or are you stuck believing the illusion unless you get incontrovertible proof or are told by someone else that it is an illusion?

I borrow wisdom from another game system for this: unless something else happens, like your friends trying to convince you otherwise, you're fooled for the "scene". Just "interacting" multiple times in succession won't get a new save. If you left and came back later (assuming it's still there), you could get a new save the first time you interacted with it.


Since this is a rules questions forum, I think I'll provide answers so we can keep it here:

Mapleswitch wrote:
Can players see beyond their perception bonus + 200 feet?

I've always loved this one. You cannot see a mountain unless you're within 200'. I've never found any errata to override this glaring problem with the rules. The closest I can find (of course, the exhortation to use common sense covers it, but aside from that) is that this only applies to Perception Checks and the rules for Perception never say that you have to make checks for obvious things. Therefore, since mountains are obvious, you can see them from any reasonable distance, even miles away, because no checks are required.

In other words, when a situation comes up that requires a check, that's the only time the -1/10' distance penalty is applied. All other non-check situations can operate normally without that penalty since we're not rolling checks.

Mapleswitch wrote:
Does Ride-By attack imply overrunning/trampling their target to continue moving or allowing charging in a not direct line or require charging directly towards the target, then provoke an attack of opportunity to continue moving that round?

Not overrun. That's a combat maneuver with its own rules. "Ride By" means exactly that, "by" the opponent, not "over" him. However, you can optionally attempt an overrun maneuver instead of your attack because overrun can be used as part of a charge action (and Ride By requires you to use a charge action).

Or you can charge "by" your opponent, making one attack as part of your "ride by" action. You would have to charge to the nearest square as per the charge rules, but that square can be obliquely adjacent to the target allowing you to pass by without requiring you to overrun him.

Either way, Ride By lets you do this without provoking from the target of your attack - any other enemies along your path can make AoOs as normal.

Mapleswitch wrote:
Does crafting magical items with reductions to crafting price reduce the final sale price of the item?

I don't know of any such reduction to crafting price, but when you determine the Sale Price and the Crafting Time, you always use the "Base Price" of the item. Officially, "base price" IS the sale price listed in the book. So a ring of Protection +1 has a Base Price of 2,000gp. The Sale Price is the same. The cost of materials to craft it is half of the base price, so 1,000gp. If you have an ability to reduce the crafting cost, that would be applied only to the crafting cost (cost of materials) unless that ability explicitly says to apply it to the item's base price.

Mapleswitch wrote:
Can a player who uses their first swift action substitute their move action or standard action for another swift action in the same round?

No. Never. There is no normal rule that allows you to convert Move or Standard or Full-Round actions into Swift, Immediate, or Free actions. Ever.

That said, I won't rule out the possibility of some odd feat or class ability that allows this. Maybe something exists that I have missed. If so, it should have explicit rules about how to do it.

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