Hello, I'm trying to make a duelist (the prestige class), with a high AC (for a duelist) and high damage (for a duelist) propably won't win any DPR races or such but still I want to try and make him as good as I can as a duelist. Just so he will do just great in our homebrew PFD campaign no need to win the DPR olympics.
Materials allowed: Everything paizo has released for pathfinder.
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Fiora (league of legends)
Lucius of the emperor's children (pre-heresy, WH40K)
Rafael (soul calibur)
Something something?
Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:
Race: Human
Stats: either 20 point buy or 3d6rolls +6.
Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,
How to get dmg: Either Agile weapon or dervish dance. I'm leaning towards agile weapon even though it's harder to get, it doesn't eat all my feats away. Plus all fighter/duelist abilities that give.
How to get AC: dex + int modifier when duelist, light armor, amulet of natural armor, dodge and all other minors etc.
Would appreciate all and any help :) thanks.
i actually JUST built a flavor character ive called a ShadowDuelist, i can post the statblock if you want, its made at level 20 with an average 150k gold... i dont have agile weapons on my Hero Lab because im a cheap sod, so just add 8 damage to the values it says.
Human (Varisian) Bard 7/Duelist 10/Shadowdancer 3
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +12; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +23
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 21, flat-footed 20 (+6 armor, +6 Dex, +3 natural, +3 deflection, +4 dodge)
hp 140 (10d10+10d8+27)
Fort +10, Ref +26, Will +12; +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects, +4 and
one size larger to resist effects of wind
Defensive Abilities canny defense, elaborate defense, evasion, parry, uncanny dodge
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +2 rapier +29/+29/+24/+19/+14 (1d6+12/15-20)
Special Attacks bardic performance, bardic performance: countersong, bardic performance: distraction,
bardic performance: fascinate, bardic performance: inspire competence, bardic performance: inspire
courage, bardic performance: suggestion, precise strike, riposte
Spell-Like Abilities
1/day—silent image (DC 15)
/day—silent image (sp) (DC 15), silent image (sp) (DC 15), silent image (sp) (DC 15)
Bard Spells Known (CL 7th; concentration +11):
3rd (2/day)— blink, displacement
2nd (4/day)— sound burst (DC 16), cat's grace, mirror image, invisibility
1st (5/day)— vanish, cure light wounds, grease (DC 15), comprehend languages, disguise self
0 (at will)— daze (DC 14), detect magic, light, message, sift, spark (DC 14)
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 26, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 18
Base Atk +17; CMB +18; CMD 38
Feats Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Hammer the Gap, Improved Critical (rapier), Lunge,
Mobility, Performance Weapon Mastery, Sidestep, Step Up, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits canter, fencer
Skills Acrobatics +27, Bluff +27, Diplomacy +22, Escape Artist +37, Fly +27, Knowledge (arcana) +13,
Knowledge (engineering) +13, Knowledge (local) +12, Linguistics +25, Perception +23, Perform (dance)
+27, Perform (sing) +27, Sense Motive +27, Sleight of Hand +26, Stealth +21, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Celestial, Common, Varisian
SQ acrobatic charge, bardic knowledge, crippling critical, enhanced mobility, hide in plain sight, lore
master, no retreat, rogue talents (fast stealth), summon shadow, versatile performance abilities (dance,
singing), well versed
Combat Gear Ring of counterspells; Other Gear +2 Mithral Chain shirt, +2 Rapier, Amulet of natural
armor +3, Belt of incredible dexterity +6, Boots of speed (10 rounds/day), Cloak of resistance +3, Goz
mask (60 minutes/day), Headband of mental prowess (Int & Cha +2) (Linguis, Ring of protection +3, Vest
of escape, 22380 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (move action) (20 rounds/day) - 0/20
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) - 0/10
Deflect Arrows (1/round) - 0/1
Goz mask (60 minutes/day) - 0/60
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
Silent Image (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Silent Image (Sp) - 0/0
Silent Image (Sp) - 0/0
Silent Image (Sp) - 0/0
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Acrobatic Charge (Ex) You can charge over difficult terrain.
Bardic Knowledge +3 (Ex) Add +3 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (move action) (20 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (3 targets) (DC 17) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated
with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +3 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage
rolls.
Bardic Performance: Suggestion (DC 17) (Sp) Make a Suggestion to one Fascinated creature.
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) Affected by haste
Canny Defense +2 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Duelist level).
Canter If someone uses Bluff to give you a secret message, they get +5, if you attempt to intercept a
secret message with Sense Motive, you get +5.
Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Crippling Critical (Ex) Add a variety of extra effects when you crit.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of
(unless from a massive weapon).
Elaborate Defense +3 (Ex) +3 AC bonus when fighting defensively / on total defense.
Enhanced Mobility (Ex) +4 AC vs attacks of opportunity while moving out of a threatened square.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Stealth (Ex) You may move at full speed while using the Stealth skill without penalty.
Fencer +1 to hit with dagger or sword AoOs.
Hammer the Gap With a full-attack action, each hit against the same opponent deals extra damage
Hide in Plain Sight (Su) You can use Stealth even while observed, as long as there is a shadow within
10'
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) Take 10 on knowledge checks, and 1/day take 20 as a standard action.
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
No Retreat (Ex) Enemies who withdraw provoke attacks of opportunity from you.
Parry (Ex) Forego an attack to defend against enemy attacks.
Performance Weapon Mastery All weapons you are proficient with act as if they had the performance
quality
Precise Strike (Ex) Extra damage when using light / 1-handed Piercing weapons.
Ring of counterspells Counters this spell when it's cast on you.
Riposte (Ex) When you parry an attack, you gain an AoO vs that foe if in reach.
Sidestep When an opponent misses you in melee, you can immediately take your next 5' step, as long as
you remain within their threatened area.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Summon Shadow (Su) Summon a Shadow to serve as your companion.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.
Versatile Performance (Dance) +27 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Dance skill
for Acrobatics or Fly checks
Versatile Performance (Singing) +27 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Sing skill
for Bluff or Sense Motive checks
Well Versed (Ex) +4 save vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
tldr: its a shadowdancer/duelist hybrid that i think is pretty cool. she lunges in and wrecks them, then her shadow companion attacks from under the floor (incorporeal ftw) for 1d6 con damage. at level 20 she has like 6 attacks per round at +29/29/23/15/15/8 and deals 1d6+20 with a 15-20 x2 crit and fun crit effects like 1d4 dex/str damage, -4 AC or Saving Throws, 2d6 bleed damage, etc. the basic idea is lunge-stab-stab-stab-stab-stab-save attack for parry (if you parry their attack you can then AoO on them, if they miss an attack you can 5foot for free) and her shadow does nasty con damage. the only caviat is her saves, at 10 fort 24 reflex and 14 will shes a pretty easy target for casters, which is why she carries ring of counterspells for dominate
also, concealment counts for Hide in plain sight, i think? so she rocks blink and displacement, can stealth anywhere, and has misschance any time she needs. since she can do fun stuff when enemies miss her, and she gets 6 AoO's a round, she can be really brutal all the time, if its her turn to attack or not. it really synergizes well with the Hide in Plain Sight and sidestep/parry/riposte.
also, concealment counts for Hide in plain sight, i think? so she rocks blink and displacement, can stealth anywhere, and has misschance any time she needs. since she can do fun stuff when enemies miss her, and she gets 6 AoO's a round, she can be really brutal all the time, if its her turn to attack or not. it really synergizes well with the Hide in Plain Sight and sidestep/parry/riposte.
so all that is moot for a level 7 character... i dont think duelist will be the way to go, at best you'll be a 6 fighter 1 duelist, and you could get better setups playing different classes a similar way... if you're going to level 20-ish then the build i posted already is my suggestion for something i think would be extremely fun to play.
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,
Any particular reason you're not using the Swashbuckler class?
Any particular reason you're not using the Swashbuckler class?
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,
The swashbuckler class? You mean the rogue archetype?
Any particular reason you're not using the Swashbuckler class?
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,
But if you mean the 3rd party class then the answer is because it's a 3rd party class and not official pathfinder. Would like to but the GM is firm on th
e no 3ed party stuff. Thanks for the idea, maybe can use at an other campaign.Git any duelist advice :) ?
also, concealment counts for Hide in plain sight, i think? so she rocks blink and displacement, can stealth anywhere, and has misschance any time she needs. since she can do fun stuff when enemies miss her, and she gets 6 AoO's a round, she can be really brutal all the time, if its her turn to attack or not. it really synergizes well with the Hide in Plain Sight and sidestep/parry/riposte.so all that is moot for a level 7 character... i dont think duelist will be the way to go, at best you'll be a 6 fighter 1 duelist, and you could get better setups playing different classes a similar way... if you're going to level 20-ish then the build i posted already is my suggestion for something i think would be extremely fun to play.
Ah! forgot to specify that the characters will go up to lvl 20 asuming we continue that long :P Just starting at lvl 7.
also, concealment counts for Hide in plain sight, i think? so she rocks blink and displacement, can stealth anywhere, and has misschance any time she needs. since she can do fun stuff when enemies miss her, and she gets 6 AoO's a round, she can be really brutal all the time, if its her turn to attack or not. it really synergizes well with the Hide in Plain Sight and sidestep/parry/riposte.
Cool build, only critique I find is the low int which doesnt use the ac bonus from the duelist which at that point would be max 10, maybe too MAD in that case. Or is the lower int on purpose?
Well, I cooked up a duelist-like build while ago (using the swordlord PrC); I have another duelist build, i'll try to pull it up tonight, but it wasnt quite as impressive ac-wise. Quite a similar build, but replacing the "swordlord" level with duelist, and switching from emphasis on wis to emphasis on int.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcfs?The-silly-swordlord-or-how-a-squishy-duel ist
The swashbuckler class? You mean the rogue archetype?Any particular reason you're not using the Swashbuckler class?
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,
He meant the Swashbuckler class on the playtest, the one that will come out in the advanced class guide.
For your duelist, crane style is a must, two parrys/riposte per round is just too good to pass. Take a look at this thread for some cool ideas for your build.
Hello, I'm trying to make a duelist (the prestige class), with a high AC (for a duelist) and high damage (for a duelist) propably won't win any DPR races or such but still I want to try and make him as good as I can as a duelist. Just so he will do just great in our homebrew PFD campaign no need to win the DPR olympics.
Materials allowed: Everything paizo has released for pathfinder.
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Fiora (league of legends)
Lucius of the emperor's children (pre-heresy, WH40K)
Rafael (soul calibur)
Something something?Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:
Race: Human
Stats: either 20 point buy or 3d6rolls +6.
Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,How to get dmg: Either Agile weapon or dervish dance. I'm leaning towards agile weapon even though it's harder to get, it doesn't eat all my feats away. Plus all fighter/duelist abilities that give.
How to get AC: dex + int modifier when duelist, light armor, amulet of natural armor, dodge and all other minors etc.
Would appreciate all and any help :) thanks.
So, I saw earlier that a multi-class duelist ends up working extremely well. A few levels of fighter, 1 barbarian (urban), swordlord (dex to damage bonus AC), master of many style (to pick up crane riposte).
finally, after all the random dips going duelist for the rest.
here's an example done by williamoak, who has an amazing build:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32157999/True%20Duelist%2013.pdf
Well, I cooked up a duelist-like build while ago (using the swordlord PrC); I have another duelist build, i'll try to pull it up tonight, but it wasnt quite as impressive ac-wise. Quite a similar build, but replacing the "swordlord" level with duelist, and switching from emphasis on wis to emphasis on int.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcfs?The-silly-swordlord-or-how-a-squishy-duel ist
lol, I didn't even realize that you already commented in this thread. (loved your build btw) :)
The swashbuckler class? You mean the rogue archetype?Any particular reason you're not using the Swashbuckler class?
Flavor wise I'm trying to build something like the following characters:
Here's what I'm thinking for a level 7 character:Fighter 6-7, then duelist.
Weapon of choice: Rapier or Scimitar.
Feats: Spring attack, Crane style feats and Step up and strike? not sure of that one yet but sounds really solid to me.
Traits: Silent hunter,
He meant the Swashbuckler class on the playtest, the one that will come out in the advanced class guide.
For your duelist, crane style is a must, two parrys/riposte per round is just too good to pass. Take a look at this thread for some cool ideas for your build.
Read the thread, was very enlightening and helpful :)
I agree that the crane style is a must, it's basically maybe a corner stone of the class.One of the things I want from the class is that it uses a sword of some sort, rapier,dueling sword etc. For flavor reasons and I want to then maximize the flavor which cuts some of the normal full optimization naturally.
You had a build fighter(lore master)/moms/duelist build, is it possible to change the build somewhat so instead of taking TWF feats and snake style, one could maybe make it into a sword duelist.
Maybe something like this:
Fighter(lorewarden)/MoMS/HGmonk/aldoriswordlord/duelist
Human
Feats: F=fighter,h=human,lw=lore,m=monk
1: Dodge,F:Weapon Finesse,H:EWP(ads)
2: F:Wpn focus(ads),Combat expertise
3: Dazzling display,M:Crane Style,M:IUS
5: Dodge,F:Mobility
6: M:Crane wing
7: Spring Attack
Any thoughts on this?
also, concealment counts for Hide in plain sight, i think? so she rocks blink and displacement, can stealth anywhere, and has misschance any time she needs. since she can do fun stuff when enemies miss her, and she gets 6 AoO's a round, she can be really brutal all the time, if its her turn to attack or not. it really synergizes well with the Hide in Plain Sight and sidestep/parry/riposte.Cool build, only critique I find is the low int which doesnt use the ac bonus from the duelist which at that point would be max 10, maybe too MAD in that case. Or is the lower int on purpose?
i forgo increased INT for more charisma because she is a Bard to begin with. i chose bard over fighter for the utility spells and part buffs, also, having blink and displacement and mirror images is basically a 100% misschance for the duration of each spell, making it a MUCH higher benifit than an additional one or two AC.
lol, I didn't even realize that you already commented in this thread. (loved your build btw) :)Well, I cooked up a duelist-like build while ago (using the swordlord PrC); I have another duelist build, i'll try to pull it up tonight, but it wasnt quite as impressive ac-wise. Quite a similar build, but replacing the "swordlord" level with duelist, and switching from emphasis on wis to emphasis on int.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcfs?The-silly-swordlord-or-how-a-squishy-duel ist
Oh subzero, you're making my old man face blush...
As for your build sir dante, it seems servicable. You will however have to accept you wont be doing much damage for a while. Even the duelist precise strike aint much damage, so that will be your biggest difficulty. Get an agile weapon as soon as you can.
found another good synergy, im liking this class more and more now xD, shadowdancer gets uncanny dodge (retains DEX when caught flat footed) and as such is never denied her Duelist's INT bonus to AC, so if you get surprised without your buffs up... she still gets most of them at least.
i wish there was room in my build to dip for Master of Many Styles, but each level of this build is required, and the placement and level up order is important...
lol, I didn't even realize that you already commented in this thread. (loved your build btw) :)Well, I cooked up a duelist-like build while ago (using the swordlord PrC); I have another duelist build, i'll try to pull it up tonight, but it wasnt quite as impressive ac-wise. Quite a similar build, but replacing the "swordlord" level with duelist, and switching from emphasis on wis to emphasis on int.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcfs?The-silly-swordlord-or-how-a-squishy-duel ist
Oh subzero, you're making my old man face blush...
As for your build sir dante, it seems servicable. You will however have to accept you wont be doing much damage for a while. Even the duelist precise strike aint much damage, so that will be your biggest difficulty. Get an agile weapon as soon as you can.
7th level will be aldoriswordlord, so it will put dex mod to dmg
|
In PFS, I had a fighter that went Fighter 5 Aldori PRC 2 Duelist 2 Fighter 3. I was using the Freehand Fighter archetype. His AC was 36. He never took any style feats. He wore a Mithral breastplate and boosted it with the trait: Defender of the Society.
If I was building this character again, I’d be more likely to take Weapon Master rather than Freehand Fighter.
You could save two feats by dropping the Aldori PRC in favor of Dervish Dance. If so, I’d suggest starting with two levels of Urban Barbarian.
Finesse fighters are good in PFS but at higher levels their damage output is low.
In PFS, I had a fighter that went Fighter 5 Aldori PRC 2 Duelist 2 Fighter 3. I was using the Freehand Fighter archetype. His AC was 36. He never took any style feats. He wore a Mithral breastplate and boosted it with the trait: Defender of the Society.
If I was building this character again, I’d be more likely to take Weapon Master rather than Freehand Fighter.
You could save two feats by dropping the Aldori PRC in favor of Dervish Dance. If so, I’d suggest starting with two levels of Urban Barbarian.
Finesse fighters are good in PFS but at higher levels their damage output is low.
Scimitar is neither a light wpn or does piercing dmg so unless houseruled it's an invalid path for a duelist. :/
I know a str fighter would be dmg wise a lot better but I think like you said, its good but not best, will do 30-40dmg per hit at higher lvls and crit often so it will manage :) its a team game after all.
http://rollforinitiative.blogspot.ca/2012/07/the-duelist-revisted.html
Here's a decent duelist build. Its a bit out of date. You can change the halfling part easily enough.
http://rollforinitiative.blogspot.ca/2012/07/the-duelist-revisted.html
Here's a decent duelist build. Its a bit out of date. You can change the halfling part easily enough.
How can he use precise strike with a scimitar? It's neither piercing dmg or light weapon.
In PFS, I had a fighter that went Fighter 5 Aldori PRC 2 Duelist 2 Fighter 3. I was using the Freehand Fighter archetype. His AC was 36. He never took any style feats. He wore a Mithral breastplate and boosted it with the trait: Defender of the Society.
If I was building this character again, I’d be more likely to take Weapon Master rather than Freehand Fighter.
You could save two feats by dropping the Aldori PRC in favor of Dervish Dance. If so, I’d suggest starting with two levels of Urban Barbarian.
Finesse fighters are good in PFS but at higher levels their damage output is low.
Scimitar is neither a light wpn or does piercing dmg so unless houseruled it's an invalid path for a duelist. :/
I know a str fighter would be dmg wise a lot better but I think like you said, its good but not best, will do 30-40dmg per hit at higher lvls and crit often so it will manage :) its a team game after all.
Dervish Dance: Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
There is a fighter/rogue/expert statted up on 15 point buy in the back of the isle of empty eyes. 5 fighter/7 rogue/2 expert... however when looking at it myself i figured that a few tweaks 5 fighter/7 rogue, then the rest into duelist would really work well. Also changing fighter to the freehand fighter, and rogue to swashbuckler. I think it had an AC somewhere in the low 40's with a defending weapon. Offensive defense and feint work really well together.
Ooohhh! Missed that, you just made my day :)
Thought of something like this: but I need to put dervish dance somewhere in there and hopefully I can keep wpn spec since the 2dmg is a big bonus. Also I need to remake the order I take the feats, but it's a raw idea.
Feats:
1. Fighter(1):H:dodge,F:weapon finesse,weapon focus(rapier)
2. Fighter(2):F:Mobility,(F:Weapon Guard)
3. Monk (1):M:Crane style,(M:IUS),Step Up
4. Fighter(3):(F:Weapon training)
5. Fighter(4):F:Spring attack,Following step
6. Monk (2):M:Crane wing,(M:Evasion)
7. Fighter(5):Step up and strike,(F:Reliable strike)
8. Duelist(1):D:Canny defense,D:precise strike
9. Duelist(2):Weapon specialization(rapier),D:improved reaction+2,D:parry
10.Duelist(3):D:Enhanced mobility
11.Duelist(4):D:combat reflexes,D:grace,crane riposte
12.Duelist(5):D:Riposte
At lvl 12 dmg would be something like this with stats like these:
Str:10, Dex:24, Con:14, Int:18, Wis:12, Cha:8
BAB:11
Ab: 20/15/10 (not that great, might have missed quite a few things.
1d6+2(enchantment)+7(dex)+3(wpn training)+2(wpn spec)+5(precise strike)
1d6+19 (15-20/x2)
Equipment: belt of dex+4, headband of int+4,gloves of dueling,+2 keen scimitar.
With right items AC can be:
equipment: celestial armor,+3 amulet of natural armor,+3 ring of protection.
AC:37,(+9armor,+7dex,+3natural,+3deflection,+1dodge,+4int)
I think it's decent to good dmg and ac for lvl 12.
Of course gaining the items might be challenging and I might have messed up a lot of things in that build idea ^^
Any thoughts on this build idea?
