Magic Missile - Does it Light up an Area

[Tormsskull]

Hi all,

Had a caster cast magic missile (3 missiles) at a dragon that was flying outside of all of the PCs vision except for the caster's. The caster struck the dragon and dealt damage, and another player stated that they would be able to see the magic missiles strike the dragon, and thus know where it is. Would this allow them to target the dragon even though they can't see it? If so, would concealment still apply?

[Slamy Mcbiteo]

So it was in a dark area? Magic Missile says nothing about it casting light. I think it would be a GM call..personally I would say "No" the Dragon still has total concealment.

[Wizarddog]

This one of those cases where its best to adopt the "yes or roll" philosophy. You don't deny the possibility but you may alter the probability or give them alternatives.

Several rules to consider.

1) When they can't see the target they have to target the square they think it is in in addition to the 50% miss chance. Then the target moves and they lose the space. if they pin point by sound then they can target the square. A move action perception check at -4 with additional modifiers for distance +1 DC/10 feet. Though it should be noted, that unless the dragon is using stealth, it can easily be pin-pointed in its square. Darkness is not as good as invisibility.

2) The characters have to use hearing (or smell if they have scent) and not sight sight because they effectively "blinded" and those checks automatically fail.

3) Magic missile says nothing about generating light, its a force. If you want to say it does then it would be no more than a candle because its the size of a dart, in which case the light would not penetrate the darkness well enough to be seen.

4) Fast rule would be to let them make the roll at -20 opposed by the creatures stealth. If they succeed, then same rules for targeting squares.

[wraithstrike]

Magic Missile is does not have the light descriptor so no it does not light up an area.

edit: The missiles would strike where the dragon was, but as for the other players knowing where the dragon was it would depend on why they could not see it. In any event the dragon still has total concealment.

[Claxon]

I would say everyone would know which square the dragon was in, but it would be like pinpointing an invisible creature. You know where it was when it was hit. It can move and you wont know where it is anymore. It also still has total concealment from you and you take all the penalties associated with that condition.

And that's being generous. Magic missile doesn't necessarily have any sort of visual indicator of the missile, though I feel like there probably is some small amount of light generated as the missile travels along.

[fictionfan]

No you can not use magic missile to attack the darkness.

[Avatar-1]

Magic Missile wrote:

Targets up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart

Aiming a Spell, Magic chapter wrote:

Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

The caster can't target the dragon if they can't see it, even if you were to houserule that the magic missile emits light (RAW, it doesn't emit light).

Even with magic missile where it's automatic hit, the caster has to be able to designate the target with line of sight. He/she can't just think "I target the dragon", and "know" what the dragon is to target it - that's not how spellcasting in general works.

[Faelyn]

fictionfan wrote:

No you can not use magic missile to attack the darkness.

Love this.

I would agree with most of the consensus here. Perhaps they knew where the dragon was when it was hit; however, if the dragon is still moving and concealed then all the penalties would apply as if an invisible creature. One thing to remember in regards to movement is the dragon doesn't stop in the spots it is in when it's struck. It is still fluidly moving and if you wanted to get technical (depending on the distance) that PC would have to lead the dragon with a ranged attack. Just my two cents.

[wraithstrike]

Avatar-1 wrote:

Magic Missile wrote:

Targets up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart

Aiming a Spell, Magic chapter wrote:

Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

The caster can't target the dragon if they can't see it, even if you were to houserule that the magic missile emits light (RAW, it doesn't emit light).

Even with magic missile where it's automatic hit, the caster has to be able to designate the target with line of sight. He/she can't just think "I target the dragon", and "know" what the dragon is to target it - that's not how spellcasting in general works.

The caster could see the dragon, but nobody else could.

[Vod Canockers]

fictionfan wrote:

No you can not use magic missile to attack the darkness.

Sure you can, as long as darkness is a creature you can see.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

RAW? No.

However, every picture of Magic Missile I've ever seen has it glowing like a big bolt of...you know...glowy stuff.

So in my games, yes, magic missile emits light. However, it's there and gone in a flash, and won't help anyone else target the same creature.

[Umbranus]

The missile does not light up anything. By RAW they would not have seen the missile hit because if the dragon was too far into the dark to be seen so was the missile what it hit.
But they would know the general direction and could guess where it was to use area spells on it or to close with it.

[Aspasia de Malagant]

Just curious, how is the character achieving "line of effect" to a creature that it cannot see?

[Kayerloth]

Aspasia de Malagant wrote:

Just curious, how is the character achieving "line of effect" to a creature that it cannot see?

Depends on the spell in question? Line of Effect and Line of Sight are two different things. You can have Line of Effect and not Line of Sight. One common example would be a Fireball effecting someone around a corner. Another good example is Glitterdust. You need line of effect but obviously do not need to see the creature(s) to potentially effect the creature(s) but you do need line of effect to them. Anything you effect more than 5 feet away in a Fog Cloud or area of Solid Fog you have line of effect to but no line of sight typically. Many of the spells which do not require LoS but you need LoE will be AoEs. Another common sort would be Rays.

Magic Missile having a Target line requires the caster to be able to see the target to cast and effect the target with the spell.

[Umbranus]

Aspasia de Malagant wrote:

Just curious, how is the character achieving "line of effect" to a creature that it cannot see?

The one casting the spell could see it. The rest of the party could not.