Hello, I'm trying to make a Witch to my pf groups homebrew campaign, the first problem is that I have never created a witch before nor have I ever played a spellcaster for that matter, unless if you count a ranger.
So as one can imagine it's somewhat of a challenge, while I have read every single witch guide I've found, I still am not sure what kind of witch it will be game mechanics.
My GM/DM/The Enemy allows me to choose the scarred witch doc archetype eventhough my character isn't an orc so it's not an issue and he is pretty loose with allowing rules as long as they do not detoriate other's fun or gamebreak and make all encounters a walk in the park.
So all feat etc. suggestions are welcome.
It boils down to either ''the debuffer'' (from viking irishman's guide sample build) or the scarred witch doctor, which I base also on the mentioned guide's build sample.
If you've read this far :) thanks, I'll try to narrow what I am debating on.
Race: Human
Sex: Male
Alignment: NE or CN
Uses his powers for personal gain and such stuff.
Stats: either 20 point buy or 3d6 roll+6.
The pro's and con's as I see on the two builds are the following:
Int based Witch build: ''the debuffer''
Pro's:
- Best debuffing d'uh
- A lot more Skill points, points and points.
- 1 more hex
- familiar? for impr. familiar?
- IMO better bonuses to certain skills through INT, like knowledge etc.
Con's:
- Less HP (through CON)
- Worse Fortitude (which I guess is already hard enough on arcane casters)
Con based Scarred witch doctor build:
Pro's:
- Good fortitude
- A lot higher HP
- Cool Fetish Mask?
Con's:
- Few skill points
- 1 Less hex
- No improved familiar ?
So combat wise the witch doc is better but not sure of losing the one hex is it worth it? Also skill points are useful. Oh wise other people, witches etc. or maybe baba yaga? Please enlighten me on this subject and share your opinions.
Also spell suggestions and such other source feats etc. are welcome aid.
100xp awarded if you read this far. Thanks and please help me :) (felt like a really long text, but preview ruined it :(
I myself have yet to play the witch, but I have experimented with a number of builds. The traditionnal debuffer build is very reliable & always appreciated (from what I've seen). Generaly, stay away from "blasty" spells & stick to debuffs (like curse) & possible healing spells (you get a bunch of those that can be useful).
However, the scarred witch doctor has an advantage that no other has...(drum roll)... con-casting! Which makes it a perfect "eldritch knight". This is the basic idea:
Barbarian (urban barbarian) 1/Scarred witch doctor 5/ eldritch knight 10/ scarred witch doctor 4.
You end up with high bab & the ability to cast 9th level spells. Plus, your HP is through the roof, since you've been boosting your con & not you int. However, you will have trouble early on (before level 8-ish) where your bab will be low and your spellcasting less significant.
If you're interested in more along those lines, I have searched through the witch spells to find the best for an eldritch knight.
I myself have yet to play the witch, but I have experimented with a number of builds. The traditionnal debuffer build is very reliable & always appreciated (from what I've seen). Generaly, stay away from "blasty" spells & stick to debuffs (like curse) & possible healing spells (you get a bunch of those that can be useful).
However, the scarred witch doctor has an advantage that no other has...(drum roll)... con-casting! Which makes it a perfect "eldritch knight". This is the basic idea:
Barbarian (urban barbarian) 1/Scarred witch doctor 5/ eldritch knight 10/ scarred witch doctor 4.
You end up with high bab & the ability to cast 9th level spells. Plus, your HP is through the roof, since you've been boosting your con & not you int. However, you will have trouble early on (before level 8-ish) where your bab will be low and your spellcasting less significant.
If you're interested in more along those lines, I have searched through the witch spells to find the best for an eldritch knight.
That's kind of a cool build but I want most likely to stick just pure witch or some archetype of it :)
Would a pure scarred witch doc be good? My gm houseruled so that I use Con not only as casting stat but so that I gain bonus spells from it and so on forth. Unlike normally when you'd get the bonus spells from INT etc.
I know that debuff's/buffs/heals are the bread and butter of a Witch but other witch spells like vomit swarm and other nasty sounding spells are great, not only flavour wise but game mechanically I think vomit swarm is very solid. Also what better character to punish and harrass the medieval peasants than a witch?
Are any blasts good on a witch? like is ice storm any good since it's small blast and battlefield control.
Well, from what i've heard the best "blasty" witch is the winter witch (there is a PrC that boosts that as well).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch -archetypes/winter-witch
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/winter-wit ch
I have heard winter witches can be quite terryfying, since they can go through immunities to cold. But that might not be what you're looking for.
As for pure scarred witch doctor... I really dont know. Loosing a single hex isnt much I believe, and getting the mask instead of a familiar is also good (since you can upgrade it cheap)). But I would personally not use it in melee combat, just as any other witch. Despite it's higher con, it's HP is just never high enough to make it worth your while.
For a full witch build, I believe a vanilla witch is a better choice. Yes, you'll probably have to take "great fortitude" at a certain point, but you'll have more skills to rely on, more hexes, and a familiar.
P.S: Favorite patron: endurance. You get Miracle as a level 9 spell, which is AWESOME
Well, from what i've heard the best "blasty" witch is the winter witch (there is a PrC that boosts that as well).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch -archetypes/winter-witch
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/winter-wit ch
I have heard winter witches can be quite terryfying, since they can go through immunities to cold. But that might not be what you're looking for.
As for pure scarred witch doctor... I really dont know. Loosing a single hex isnt much I believe, and getting the mask instead of a familiar is also good (since you can upgrade it cheap)). But I would personally not use it in melee combat, just as any other witch. Despite it's higher con, it's HP is just never high enough to make it worth your while.
For a full witch build, I believe a vanilla witch is a better choice. Yes, you'll probably have to take "great fortitude" at a certain point, but you'll have more skills to rely on, more hexes, and a familiar.
P.S: Favorite patron: endurance. You get Miracle as a level 9 spell, which is AWESOME
Hmm okay, yeah winter witch seems really cool but I sadly have little to no clue how to build one. I mean what are blast spells for a witch?
I'm curious of any witch that is terrifying ^^ please do share if you know more about them, anything beyond the obvious builds.But yeah a scarred witch doc would never go melee, just better survivability when eventually someone hits you.
So basically you trade the greater fortitude feat eventually if pure witch vs scarred witch doctor, so the biggest difference is only in the early game, since you can later on use that feat that which would be used to take great for to take a hex. ALso the familiar is different and skills vs HP.
Kind of tempted on the witch doctor just flavor wise on the character I have in my mind, the climate the campaign setting is atm isn't cold at all. But not that it matters.
I've never built a "blaster" magic-user before (it aint my style), but search the forums and you should (hopefully) find some examples.
However, a lot of people say the "ice tomb" hex is pretty scary, and this boosts it. There are a few ice themed spells in the witch list, though the "winter" patron gives even more. Plus, these guys eventually get the ability to pass through "immunity" to cold. So nothing is safe! But like I said, I've never tried to build (much less tried to play) a blaster before. Might be worth getting elemental metamagic to switch regular blast spells (fireball, lightning bolt) to the cold subtype.
Anyway, good luck. I dont really know what else I can add.
I've never built a "blaster" magic-user before (it aint my style), but search the forums and you should (hopefully) find some examples.
However, a lot of people say the "ice tomb" hex is pretty scary, and this boosts it. There are a few ice themed spells in the witch list, though the "winter" patron gives even more. Plus, these guys eventually get the ability to pass through "immunity" to cold. So nothing is safe! But like I said, I've never tried to build (much less tried to play) a blaster before. Might be worth getting elemental metamagic to switch regular blast spells (fireball, lightning bolt) to the cold subtype.
Anyway, good luck. I dont really know what else I can add.
Thanks for all the advice :) won't build a blaster witch since that isn't what they are, if I want a blaster then it's a sorcerer and I never want to play a full blaster. I find intimidation and through roleplay and other spells like marionette possession a lot more fun than pure blast spells.
Truly slaying an ice dragon with ice magic is fantastic and scary as hell.
Thanks again for your help, hopefully other people have also some great advice!
Scarred Witch Doctor, with the Hair hex, using the the 10' reach to deliver Frostbite with bone-beaded dredlocks from behind a laughing mask.
The GM was so afraid, he nerfed the Hair hex, ruling it was always 'Secondary'. So I picked up a longspear, for AoO. Standard Action to Intimidate, AoO during the enemy turn, for a good no-resources tactic.
Scarred Witch Doctor, with the Hair hex, using the the 10' reach to deliver Frostbite with bone-beaded dredlocks from behind a laughing mask.
The GM was so afraid, he nerfed the Hair hex, ruling it was always 'Secondary'. So I picked up a longspear, for AoO. Standard Action to Intimidate, AoO during the enemy turn, for a good no-resources tactic.
Thanks for the advice.
Isn't the "hair hex" white haired archetype only? Not scarred witch doc?
No, there is a simpler "hair hex" that only goes 10 feet out.
Keep in mind that while most things for SWD are based on Con, bonus spells known at first level are not on the list so you can't dump Int all the way down if you want a decent selection of spells at lvl 1. Also, I like the idea of taking Perform(Oratory) and re-flavoring it as ventriloquism to make it seem like the Mask has a personality of its own. I'll even pick up an extra language that the Witch will "claim not to speak" while using ventriloquism to make the mask speak the language and if someone tries to speak that language to him, he'd have to have his mask translate for him. That can synergize well if you have decent Cha for Intimidate checks.
No worries, will never dump int as a witch ^^ I love skill points too much and want to get high social skills since I will make my witch an exile from his homeland.
Also he is going to use his magic/witchcraft for material wealth and selfish reasons. Heavy influence drawn from a character in one piece manga. (A piratelord donflamingo)That perform sounds like a really cool roleplaying idea, haa it brought any memorable moments yet to your games?
No, there is a simpler "hair hex" that only goes 10 feet out.
Does the hair work with all touch spells? If so then you can actually use dmg spells like inflict etc.
Scarred Witch Doctor, with the Hair hex, using the the 10' reach to deliver Frostbite with bone-beaded dredlocks from behind a laughing mask.
The GM was so afraid, he nerfed the Hair hex, ruling it was always 'Secondary'. So I picked up a longspear, for AoO. Standard Action to Intimidate, AoO during the enemy turn, for a good no-resources tactic.
Sounds like a very nasty combo, got any other combos besides evil eye misfortune + cackle.
Didn't even know of that hex.Thanks for the advice :)
No, there is a simpler "hair hex" that only goes 10 feet out.Does the hair work with all touch spells? If so then you can actually use dmg spells like inflict etc.
Yes, which allows you to cast and deliver you touch spells with provoking >:)
Witch is easily my favorite class. I've never played a Scarred Witch Doctor, but I imagine that one would be ideal if you plan on wading into combat more, both to deliver touch attacks and heal allies.
I can say, though, that the "traditional" Int based witch, in addition to being a good debuffer, can dominate non-combat as well. Some of my favorite tricks:
—Using prehensile hair to further intimidate the cowering peasants (what effect this might have would vary by GM)
—Crafting poison and putting it into bottles of whiskey to be used with Beguiling Gift
—Taking a cat familiar and outsneaking the rogues (thank you, Invisibility).
TRIPLE POST! But yeah, I consider the SLA clause pretty cheesy; while I have experimented with it, I will never allow it in my games, and will never try to use it outside of PFS (where you're pretty much stuck at under 10 anyway).
Does anyone think there'd be any mechanical problems with skinning the mask as a hat of some kind?
Does anyone think there'd be any mechanical problems with skinning the mask as a hat of some kind?
Dont think so. As long as you let other items be switched slots (if custom crafted), it wont cause any trouble.
I concur with Professor William Oak.Does anyone think there'd be any mechanical problems with skinning the mask as a hat of some kind?Dont think so. As long as you let other items be switched slots (if custom crafted), it wont cause any trouble.
When I get the chance, I will pass you a version of my "pathfinderdex".
No, there is a simpler "hair hex" that only goes 10 feet out.Does the hair work with all touch spells? If so then you can actually use dmg spells like inflict etc.Yes, which allows you to cast and deliver you touch spells with provoking >:)
Witch is easily my favorite class. I've never played a Scarred Witch Doctor, but I imagine that one would be ideal if you plan on wading into combat more, both to deliver touch attacks and heal allies.
I can say, though, that the "traditional" Int based witch, in addition to being a good debuffer, can dominate non-combat as well. Some of my favorite tricks:
—Using prehensile hair to further intimidate the cowering peasants (what effect this might have would vary by GM)
—Crafting poison and putting it into bottles of whiskey to be used with Beguiling Gift
—Taking a cat familiar and outsneaking the rogues (thank you, Invisibility).
Intimidating peasants is my bread and butter in rpg's :) well not really but it's always fun, like the time my barbarian cleaved a person in half when he was assaulted in a bar.
Do you think that the cauldron hex is worth it?
I was personall thinking that of the 6 or 7 hexes I gain before level 10 (taking extra hex feats ofc) are the following: evil eye,cackle,misfortune,flight,prehensile hair and would really want to pick coven since I get to take the leadership feat which in turn brings me my little slave witches to the my coven.
But the cooking hex seems quite good since well if you can store food and just cook annoying people into potions, it can be useful?
Your opinion?
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Well let's address a few things first.
A. Scarred Witch Doctor is a HORRIBLE archetype for a witch. It's only value (slight as that is) is if you intend to go Eldritch Knight but it's still not very good.
It doesn't really increase your survivability, costs you spells, lowers your action economy and penalizes your out of combat usability.
Always go straight int-based witch, you'll get so much more out of it.
Second, Cauldron Hex is BAD. With the nerf to it and the default rules on potion making really makes it bad. I would only ever take it if I intended to go with the cook people hex.
Coven hex is great IF you can get an actual Hag into your Coven, without one it's a less then stellar hex and will wind up wasting your leadership feat.
Cat's are useful as as familiars but are still low on the list of desired familiars. Until you can get an improved familiar (if you do go with cauldron hex then DEFINITELY get a homonculus) go with either the Raven or the Monkey familiar. Tool using familiars especially who can speak are optimal, everything else is inferior.
Until you can get an improved familiar (if you do go with cauldron hex then DEFINITELY get a homonculus) go with either the Raven or the Monkey familiar. Tool using familiars especially who can speak are optimal, everything else is inferior.
Except that they stand out. The last thing a witch should do is make their familiar a valid target.
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Until you can get an improved familiar (if you do go with cauldron hex then DEFINITELY get a homonculus) go with either the Raven or the Monkey familiar. Tool using familiars especially who can speak are optimal, everything else is inferior.Except that they stand out. The last thing a witch should do is make their familiar a valid target.
No, the last thing a witch should do is make their familiar a valid target without a backup of their spells and protection for that familiar.
Refusing to use your familiar because it MIGHT be killed in a fight is like refusing to drive your car because it might get in an accident. Pointless, paranoid and a waste of a perfectly good resource.
Back up your spells in a stone familiar, a satchel full of scrolls or invest in a 1,700GP scroll of Raise Animal Companion to bring him back IF something happens.
Risk and death is not that big of a deal, happens to the fighter all the time.
Well let's address a few things first.
A. Scarred Witch Doctor is a HORRIBLE archetype for a witch. It's only value (slight as that is) is if you intend to go Eldritch Knight but it's still not very good.
It doesn't really increase your survivability, costs you spells, lowers your action economy and penalizes your out of combat usability.
Always go straight int-based witch, you'll get so much more out of it.Second, Cauldron Hex is BAD. With the nerf to it and the default rules on potion making really makes it bad. I would only ever take it if I intended to go with the cook people hex.
Coven hex is great IF you can get an actual Hag into your Coven, without one it's a less then stellar hex and will wind up wasting your leadership feat.
Cat's are useful as as familiars but are still low on the list of desired familiars. Until you can get an improved familiar (if you do go with cauldron hex then DEFINITELY get a homonculus) go with either the Raven or the Monkey familiar. Tool using familiars especially who can speak are optimal, everything else is inferior.
Not sure if I mentioned but it got houseruled by my GM that con can be the pure stat for everything casting related etc with my witch. I get bonus spells based on it, casting dc increases based on it and so on forth.
How does it lower my action economy? I realise it lowers skill points naturally and how doesn't it increase my survivability? Larger con = hp
Naturally less spells = less protection and bf control.
Until you can get an improved familiar (if you do go with cauldron hex then DEFINITELY get a homonculus) go with either the Raven or the Monkey familiar. Tool using familiars especially who can speak are optimal, everything else is inferior.Except that they stand out. The last thing a witch should do is make their familiar a valid target.
No, the last thing a witch should do is make their familiar a valid target without a backup of their spells and protection for that familiar.
Refusing to use your familiar because it MIGHT be killed in a fight is like refusing to drive your car because it might get in an accident. Pointless, paranoid and a waste of a perfectly good resource.
Back up your spells in a stone familiar, a satchel full of scrolls or invest in a 1,700GP scroll of Raise Animal Companion to bring him back IF something happens.
Risk and death is not that big of a deal, happens to the fighter all the time.
Got to agree on that familiar part, always considered myself the familiar too precious to not be used, but you have changed my opinion on that.
Should the familiar be used as spell conduits or to deliver touch spells? Beyond the obvious out of combat moments.
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Well now you're in the realm of houserules and that changes everything past where I can advise you.
As for action economy you are giving up your familiar and all it's actions. That's an additional full round of actions you just gave away for a couple points of AC.
Now the point of the familiar is that it can do all of those and more. It's a great wand/potion/scroll jockey, aid another battery, Possess Familiar target (homonculi come with construct traits and imps come with Devil traits, yummy), spy and if you buff it correctly a terrifying melee/ranged combatant.
It's an awesome 2nd character and built in Teamwork feat choice (Homonculi can have as many feats as you can afford to buy it with and you can have multiple homonculi at once).
Never give up your familiar, it's way too valuable.
I Really Hope That's Supposed To Be 2d6+6 Or Else Its WAY overpowered. Level 1 Character With a Potential 24 Stat?