I am joining an evil campaign that is currently level 8, but has full intentions of going all the way to level 20. It's 25 point buy with full use of any and all pathfinder books, and 3rd party material pending GM approval. The current party consists of:
Half-orc Barbarian
Tiefling Magus
Half-Drow Urban Ranger
Tiefling Wizard (Conjurer)
The party definitely needs a face and could definitely use some healing, but have assured me that it isn't a necessity. Given these circumstances, what build would you want to use?
The reason I ask is that I've been having a tough time deciding on what to play. I was set on Antipaladin, but after our first session the character just didn't pan out the way I wanted it to. I've considered an inquisitor, a dragon disciple, and an evil bard of some kind, but haven't found something that really appeals to me. I've also looked into awesome concepts like the assassin, ninja, and spellslinger, but all of which seem a bit under-powered for this farily optimized group.
I like the idea of playing a face so I'd be interested in seeing a charisma based build, or a skill monkey of some kind. It looks like melee damage and arcane spellcasting are already covered, so something that deviates/complements that would be a huge plus.
Any and all assistance would be great and much appreciated!
Healer is quite impossible, since evil isn't really allowed to heal. Antipaladin is out already.
I'd likely play a NECROMANCER of some kind, since it's impossible to take such a build in a non-evil Campaign. The Oracle is Charisma-based and can make a damn good Necromancer.
-ORACLE OF BONES is pretty good/JUJU ORACLE(if allowed) is even better IMO.
CLERIC still needs some Charisma for controlling Undead. If walking an army of Undead around isn't your thing you could also:
-DIRGE BARD: You have three fighter characters, who would profit a lot from your performances and buffs. You get to be a skill monkey and a face. If you go with Dirge Bard you could even start creating Undead soon and get some debuffs providing a more evil flavor.
-WITCH: Lots of flavour in an evil campaign, though no Charisma synergy.
-NINJA: Could actually quite work well, since you have enough guys to provide Flanking.
-RHAKSHASA BLOODLINE SORCERER: You are Charisma-based and get an extra +5 to Bluff multiple times per day.
I would like to see a red mantis assassin. Those guys can definitly use charisma (for casting) and get some cool toys. If you do take it, see if your GM will allow you to finesse sawtooth sabres; here's a statement by James Jacobs (the guy who originally had them included I believe) saying he thinks it wont have any effect on game balance, and I tend to agree with him:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m0n4?A-Red-Mantis-Dilemma#6
In any case, the red mantis assassin is quite weird/cool. You could even make a ninja/red mantis for extra charisma synergy. Personally I would go ranger 2/ninja 3/red mantis assassin 10.
Here's the link to the PrC:
I'm going to try to make a build eventually (if only as an enemy in one of my games) but it's just too weird/cool not to use.
I like the idea of an evil oracle of Life. For reasons unknown a terrible and dementet person have the healing touch. The reason could be a cool thing to discover in game.
What kind of evil are you aming at? Undead Lord/antipaladin evil where every breth is blasfemy ? Or thiefs guild evil where evil is somthing you are to folks that stand in your way mainly?
From what I gathered from a rushed explanation during our first session, this is a mostly urban campaign at the moment. We are in Riddleport trying to break up an alliance between the cyphermages and a rival gang. We had a captive (who didn't survive the session) who gave us a few leads to a third gang that tried to set us up in an ambush. We are currently infiltrating their lair in a cavern underneath the city.
Edit: Clarification.
in general:
it might not be super optimized but i always thought evil gnome antipaladin 2/synthesist X-2 would be a blast to play.
in that party:
from a party optimization standpoint, i'd probably make an evangelist cleric... you get the bard performance buffs plus all the typical cleric goodies. you could build as a summoner (to maximize bard group buff and have some battlefield control) or a reach cleric or a melee cleric (evil clerics usually benefit more from channel smite, so a guided hand build could be a good way to get strong melee and have decent DCs for Save or Suck spells). you could prepare some cure/remove status spells, but honestly i'd just rely on wands and scrolls (you're evil... if another PC dies cause you didn't memorize a big cure that means a bigger cut of the rewards for you; really, if you're gonna roleplay your alignment you should make the other PCs buy their own scrolls/wands and only use them on their behalf if you have nothing better to do, or are gaining some benefit from it).
alternatively, there's a number of fun/interesting ways you could build an oracle... a blackened flame oracle would have a good mix of healing and damage spells (oracles choice to know cure/inflict spells is not restricted by alignment), be highly Cha focused (which is great for face skills, which are important, especially for an evil party), which makes Save or Suck spells an option too, and could easily pick up an eldritch heritage bloodline (infernal fits well thematically and the 9th level power is exactly right for the concept; elemental fire's 1st power is kind of weak but could help with resource management and its 9th level power is awesome from an optimization standpoint).
Urban ranger dominates vs humans. Litterly a killing machine especially if you go ranged.
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Evil cleric all the way....converting the mindless masses to devil worship for a place of rank in the hells.
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Hello,
I'm the mentioned Wizard in the party, and just wanted to describe the party a bit better.
Barbarian is following the superstitious, witch hunter and pounce route.
Magus is black bladed, and does what you think a magus does.
Urban Ranger is an Archer.
I myself took conjuration, though I rarely summon creatures. Prefer the battlefield control of clouds, pits, and webs. Also as a side note, I was nice enough to take Craft Wondrous and Arms/Armor.
We all also agreed to have party loyalty at the table, so no need to worry about your own group killing you in your sleep.
An evil cleric or oracle would be a great fit, but...
What about a beastmorph/vivisectionist alchemist?
Jack the Ripper one moment, Mr. Hyde the next. Use your alchemical abilities to do nefarious research along with the wizard and to keep your party stocked with magical healing and augmenting draughts.
What about a beastmorph/vivisectionist alchemist?
i like that a lot... making other people use their own actions for healing/buffs instead of you 'wasting' yours on them is perfect for an 'evil healer'! you might run into some issues with status removal and out of combat healing (since you need UMD for wands/scrolls as an alchemist)... there are two feats you could take- Pragmatic Activator makes UMD an Int skill (and its already a class skill for alch), and Student of Philosophy makes most Diplomacy and Bluff checks Int based if you want to handle some face stuff (though would be a class skill).
I agree with everyone saying Oracle, but I'd go Occult over any other mystery. Revelations aren't great (definitely go dual-cursed), and you won't be able to pull necromancy shenanigans quite like Juju could, but if you make it to the capstone, you ascend to ghostdom and become a ridiculous force of unstoppable destruction. It's the only capstone I'd be willing to build an entire character towards, because it's just so damn flavorful and awesome.
What about a beastmorph/vivisectionist alchemist?i like that a lot... making other people use their own actions for healing/buffs instead of you 'wasting' yours on them is perfect for an 'evil healer'! you might run into some issues with status removal and out of combat healing (since you need UMD for wands/scrolls as an alchemist)... there are two feats you could take- Pragmatic Activator makes UMD an Int skill (and its already a class skill for alch), and Student of Philosophy makes most Diplomacy and Bluff checks Int based if you want to handle some face stuff (though would be a class skill).
Bruising Intellect, a trait that allows you to use your INT bonus for Intimidate checks rather than CHA, might also be a nice thematic choice for a more sinister or scary character
Take Gravewalker Witch and Juju Oracle.
...
A) Sadly you need to wait a level to get Animate dead from witch.
You realize the witch side of the theurge will never get animate dead? Gravewalker's spells are replacing patron spells, and thus are granted based on class level, not character level.
Finitevus, NE tiefling (Daemon-spawn/Grimspawn) wizard, attempting to amass enough power and resources to build an army of adamantine golems to wipe out Golarion.
I've always wanted to play some kind of caster at high level (probably a sorcerer).
I agree with the Red Mantis Assassin PrC too, though! I just made one for Way of the Wicked (well, starting as a fighter/rogue, but she will be soon!) because the flavor is just so cool! It takes a little work to explain why they're out and about though.
I've always wanted to play some kind of caster at high level (probably a sorcerer).
I agree with the Red Mantis Assassin PrC too, though! I just made one for Way of the Wicked (well, starting as a fighter/rogue, but she will be soon!) because the flavor is just so cool! It takes a little work to explain why they're out and about though.
I'd be interested seeing your build paulicas, i'm working on a version of this myself.
To all of the oracle suggestions: Dual-cursed is out since Misfortune has been banned from the table. I'm still trying to narrow it down. Three builds I am looking at now:
Reworking my antipaladin and going the mounted combat route. Ideally I'd want something super awesome and evil (a nightmare or say a flippin' dragon), but for now I'd settle for a fienish horse or... something. I'm just really into the LE mounted knight concept. Maybe I should look into cavalier instead, haha.
Secondly, is williamoak's Red Mantis concept. I'm waiting to hear back from my GM on whether or not finesse will be houseruled as legal, otherwise I don't see how that PrC would ever work because of the sheer MADness.
My third character idea is a straight up alchemist bomber. I think the beastmorph/vivisectionist role is already covered by our barbarian and I don't want to step on any toes. I want to take the Student of Philosophy trait and/or the Buising Intellect trait allowing me to retain my role as the party face, which I quite enjoy.
A necromancer!!! Juju oracles are AWESOME!!! They have high CHA too.
^That. I'm playing one in Way of the Wicked right now and it's hella fun. Unfortunately many of my minions are currently dead (RIP George and Trithraxus, you'll always live on in my heart ;_;).
My undead have been doing pretty darn well so far. They don't carry the team (...mostly, Zombie Trithraxus was a freakin' badass), but they do get in their fair share of kills,put anothe rbody on teh field, force the enemy to split their attention and, most importantly, allow me to have my cake and eat it too by playing a spellcaster who also gets to roll attack rolls and smack things.
A necromancer!!! Juju oracles are AWESOME!!! They have high CHA too.^That. I'm playing one in Way of the Wicked right now and it's hella fun. Unfortunately many of my minions are currently dead (RIP George and Trithraxus, you'll always live on in my heart ;_;).
My undead have been doing pretty darn well so far. They don't carry the team (...mostly, Zombie Trithraxus was a freakin' badass), but they do get in their fair share of kills,put anothe rbody on teh field, force the enemy to split their attention and, most importantly, allow me to have my cake and eat it too by playing a spellcaster who also gets to roll attack rolls and smack things.
I really love the idea of a necromancer type build, it was my original intent when I chose the antipaladin, but I'm just afraid I will get overwhelmed trying to manage all of my minions.
Also does anyone have a fleshed out Dirge Bard with or without Sound Striker? I've never played a bard and am interested in trying one, but I wouldn't have a clue how to build one effectively. I've looked over the forums, and haven't found too much. Where's the bard love?
Also does anyone have a fleshed out Dirge Bard with or without Sound Striker? I've never played a bard and am interested in trying one, but I wouldn't have a clue how to build one effectively. I've looked over the forums, and haven't found too much. Where's the bard love?
You can build many different versions of Bard. Check if Soundstriker allows you to use Weird words on the same target. If yes you can rock
You could just make an Archer and pick the obvious Archery feats.
You coulde go for Skirmishing and take high Str and a Two-Handed-Weapon via being Half-Orc or Half Elf with Ancient Arms.
You could make a Dazzling Display/Helpful Halfling whip wielding full support Bard.
Good Feats are Arcane Strike, Discordant Voice and Lingering Performance.
Spellsong can really help you troll NPCs in an Urban Setting.
I would consider either a Tiefling Fiendish Vessel going to Holy Vindicator for a nice heal/harm channel ability or a Crossblooded Orc/Red Dragon Tatooed Sorcerer 1/Oracle of Flame 9/Diabolist 10 for a fun blaster character that can party face with the best of them.
There is also the classic Drow Priestess completing her goals:
1) Complete a Mythic ritual to blot out the sun.
2) Destroy the faery elves.
3) ????????????????
4) Profit
Because what good is an evil plot if people can't profit?
Back in the day with 3.5 I played an LE Enchanter from level 1 all the way up to level 23. I used Suggestion a lot. When I wasn't using it to manipulate enemies I was probably using it to get the rest of the party to to stop annoying me with their petty little problems, or steal the treasure that I wanted. Notable evil accomplishments? Kidnapped the soul of a recently slain enemy from the after life, and tortured him for information. Used the spell Mind Rape, from the Book of Vile Darkness, to steal all of the knowledge from the Lord of the First Layer of Hell, and leave his mind an empty husk. Kept a few good party members under the impression that what we were doing was good and just and not just advancing my own agenda.
It was one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in gaming.
Let the conjurer pick up Infernal Healing, you be the face/master manipulator and run the show.
Wizard 10(conjuration - infernal binder subschool)/darkfire adept 10.
infernal binder is from: inner sea primer, darkfire adept is from paths of prestige.
Half orc Inquisitor of Rovagug with the rage domain.
The amount of damage you can dish out is insane...
The intimidate bonus is silly...
You can bully people into getting your way.
And you are a true Swiss army knife. There is almost never a situation you can't adapt to.