Ravingdork alluded to a feat involving bad DCs, so I assumed that there was at least one.
Charm person works fine--at least until it wears off. As a trusted friend and ally, you must have had a good reason to cast a spell on them. Afterward, well, the target remembers you being his friend, but he might suspect that something was amiss if and when he remembers that you cast a spell on them shortly before the charm period.
I suggest wearing a disguise when casting it. That way, if he puts two and two together later, he won't be angry with you on sight.
there was a skill trick in complete scoundrel that let you use a sleight of hand check opposed by enemy perception to conceal or disguise your spellcasting, it cost 2 skill points to learn though.
The metamagic feats don't disguise casting at all anyway, but they may become a factor in a perception check if other variables (blocking line of sight with other PCs in a loud crowded bar) make the check worthwhile.
Basically, as has come up many times, you can still identify a stilled, silent, eschewed spell with no RAW penalties. It's the other factors (loud room, no line of sight) that make the check more difficult and may even give importance to the Silent Spell feat. It's up to the GM to determine how to apply penalties appropriately based upon the outline in the rulebook.
This is one of the reasons why the skill trick in complete scoundrel exists.
The metamagic feats don't disguise casting at all anyway, but they may become a factor in a perception check if other variables (blocking line of sight with other PCs in a loud crowded bar) make the check worthwhile.
Basically, as has come up many times, you can still identify a stilled, silent, eschewed spell with no RAW penalties. It's the other factors (loud room, no line of sight) that make the check more difficult and may even give importance to the Silent Spell feat. It's up to the GM to determine how to apply penalties appropriately based upon the outline in the rulebook.
This is one of the reasons why the skill trick in complete scoundrel exists.
PF needs something akin to skill tricks or new uses for skills akin to what is offered in Complete Scoundrel.
Ravingdork alluded to a feat involving bad DCs, so I assumed that there was at least one.
I don't remember the name of it, but there was a feat that allowed you to disguise certain spell components. It added +5 to the DC to identify the spell or something like that.
Even with the +5, the DC to identify spells remains trivial.
Ravingdork alluded to a feat involving bad DCs, so I assumed that there was at least one.I don't remember the name of it, but there was a feat that allowed you to disguise certain spell components. It added +5 to the DC to identify the spell or something like that.
Even with the +5, the DC to identify spells remains trivial.
the +5 to DC is trival, the skill trick from complete scoundrel would be better to offer as a feat tax, but still isn't worth a feat, maybe a trait or revival of the skill trick system.
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You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
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You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
Also weak. Bruce Banner's transformation is clearly a supernatural ability and therefore has no verbal, somatic, or material components.
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If you can whisper, use a skill to cover or mute the noise of spell casting, or otherwise perform what is suggested by the OP and subsequent thread contributors here, why would the game have copied and pasted Silent Spell at all?
My personal interpretation of spell casting's noise level as nothing more than conversation. Not shouting, not whispering. You can speak an a strong voice while carrying on at a dinner party.
Now in 3.5 there was a feat that used ranks in disguise (I think) to make it appear that your casting came from somewhere else. Subtle Casting or some such. I only remember it because of the image: the Iconic spellcaster from 3.5, a female elf named Mialee, stands on a street corner casually leaning on a lamppost while in the background a dude is getting fried by a lightning bolt.
Frankly I feel that if there were a mundane way to disguise casting with a skill that any spellcaster could potentially put a rank in, the game dev's wouldn't have bothered with the feats and class abilities Malag pointed out. However this conversation has been had on the boards for years before I stuck my nose in it, and it will doubtless continue after I'm gone, so carry on.
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The problem is that you can way more easily fool a non-spellcaster or at least person who cannot identify spells (ranks in Spellcraft) then a regular spellcaster who knows how the spells work.
Example wise, Mark Hoover reminded me of a simple level 1 spell called Ventriloquism. A spellcaster using such spell would exactly do what he described. Of course, the opponent does get a Will save to recognize the voice being illusionary, but even if opponent succeeds and save successfully on a save, he still doesn't know from where the spellcaster casted spell.
There is really many possibilities to disguise spellcasting. You just have to know what is your objective, and best means to obtain it.
Silent Spell has a legitimate use beyond disguising a spell, though--it allows casting spells that normally have verbal components when you otherwise could not (when silenced). So the argument that "if you had such an ability, what good would Silent Spell be?" Is unconvincing.
A house rule to disguise spellcasting with a skill check would not be damaging to the balance, provided that the difficulty was tuned properly.
Silent Spell has a legitimate use beyond disguising a spell, though--it allows casting spells that normally have verbal components when you otherwise could not (when silenced). So the argument that "if you had such an ability, what good would Silent Spell be?" Is unconvincing.
A house rule to disguise spellcasting with a skill check would not be damaging to the balance, provided that the difficulty was tuned properly.
Something like a "Whisper Spell" feat. It would read you are proficient at casting spells in a soft voice.
Or maybe just use a skill such as Bluff or Perform, scale the difficulty by components and spell level, and maybe have a trait or feat that grants bonuses to the skill when used to disguise casting.
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Also weak. Bruce Banner's transformation is clearly a supernatural ability and therefore has no verbal, somatic, or material components.You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
You are really missing the point of this post.
You are really missing the point of this post.Also weak. Bruce Banner's transformation is clearly a supernatural ability and therefore has no verbal, somatic, or material components.You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
And it's clearly an extraordinary ability besides. Bruce Banner was a scientist, and his condition was brought about by science, not some crazed wizard with transmutation magic.
You are really missing the point of this post.Also weak. Bruce Banner's transformation is clearly a supernatural ability and therefore has no verbal, somatic, or material components.You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
When Banner says that he always says it in a voice that is clear enough that the person who is upsetting him can hear it. He's saying it as a warning in an honest attempt to get them to stop whatever they're doing.
To me this doesn't indicate an attempt to mask his voice - quite the opposite.
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And it's clearly an extraordinary ability besides. Bruce Banner was a scientist, and his condition was brought about by science, not some crazed wizard with transmutation magic.You are really missing the point of this post.Also weak. Bruce Banner's transformation is clearly a supernatural ability and therefore has no verbal, somatic, or material components.You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
Still, missing the point.
The way he spoke, not the fact that he was the Hulk, or that he can Hulk out, or anything to do with that.
If I say, someone was a nice guy, like Jesus, then I am saying he is a nice guy. That's it.
We understand now?
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You are really missing the point of this post.Also weak. Bruce Banner's transformation is clearly a supernatural ability and therefore has no verbal, somatic, or material components.You know when Bruce Banner says, "You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
He is about to Hulk out.
He is not yelling, and could almost be considered close to a whisper.
He is still speaking, in what I would call, a strong voice.
That is how I imagine many Verbal components of spells.
When Banner says that he always says it in a voice that is clear enough that the person who is upsetting him can hear it. He's saying it as a warning in an honest attempt to get them to stop whatever they're doing.
To me this doesn't indicate an attempt to mask his voice - quite the opposite.
I never said he was masking his voice.
I was simply giving an example of how I imagined verbal components.
I think you are adding more than what is there.
If I say I like cats, that does not mean I want to murder all dogs, and have some sort of weird fetish.
