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Thinking about this class and the witch. The familiar links this class thematically with the witch, but doesn't affect how the class plays very much. Part of what makes the witch, the witch, is that the Hex list is full of flavorful, fun, and witchy abilities, including some that aren't even mechanically very strong. But they get flight, child-scent, animated huts, and of course, cackling.
To be like the witch in that regard, the shaman can't just borrow a bunch of revelations and call them hexes. They need a bunch of "shamanic gifts" that grant very shamanic things, like visions of the future, spirit lodges, chant (something like a cackle, but for buffs), scrying, magic jar, ethereal jaunts, consecration circles, etc. One category of gifts could be oracle revelations that match up with the corresponding spirit (relieving you of the need to rewrite all the mysteries as spirits with their own hex lists). Another gift could be to add another wandering spirit.
Rather than having each spirit provide a whole menu, you would get the main shamanic list of gifts, plus your spirit's revelations. Wandering spirit would grant another set of spirit magic, and revelation choices you could pick from with wandering "hex" (gift).
With that mechanism in place, you could allow lots of additional wandering spirits through some mechanism, as they would add versatility, not extra uses of powers. A feat, Extra Wandering Spirit Gift, would let you leverage your spirits (permanent and wandering) for more temporary relevations.
I'll mention again my suggestion of using arcanist spell preparation. If you use the cleric list, and simply add the spirit magic to the spells in hand, you end up with a fairly versatile caster.
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If you want to play a character with a special familiar who casts witch spells and an odd grab bag of other thematic spells, and hexes people a lot, that's called the witch.
I would totally let shamans grab Cauldron as a hex.
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That's been a major concern since the start of the playtest, nothing done to the class yet has alleviated the "Variant non cursed Oracle" feel yet. The spell list change has definitely put it firmly more in a Druid/Oracle hybrid feel which isn't bad and is something I could get behind if they triage the rest of the Witch out of it. As the Witch is honestly one of my favorite classes in Pathfinder the way it's being underused in this hybrid makes me rather remove the Witch from it entirely than to see it not even half heartedly contributing to the hybrid.
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Thinking about this class and the witch. The familiar links this class thematically with the witch, but doesn't affect how the class plays very much.
Agreed....having the shaman create talisman and fetishes as a conduit between his spirits fit's the theme of a shaman...a familiar simply doesn't.
Part of what makes the witch, the witch, is that the Hex list is full of flavorful, fun, and witchy abilities, including some that aren't even mechanically very strong. But they get flight, child-scent, animated huts, and of course, cackling.
To be like the witch in that regard, the shaman can't just borrow a bunch of revelations and call them hexes. They need a bunch of "shamanic gifts" that grant very shamanic things, like visions of the future, spirit lodges, chant (something like a cackle, but for buffs), scrying, magic jar, ethereal jaunts, consecration circles, etc. One category of gifts could be oracle revelations that match up with the corresponding spirit (relieving you of the need to rewrite all the mysteries as spirits with their own hex lists). Another gift could be to add another wandering spirit.
Again, agreed...although using the idea of hexes and revelations as a starting point is fine....very few of the revelations and hexes actually feel like something one would associate with a shaman.
Rather than having each spirit provide a whole menu, you would get the main shamanic list of gifts, plus your spirit's revelations. Wandering spirit would grant another set of spirit magic, and revelation choices you could pick from with wandering "hex" (gift).
With that mechanism in place, you could allow lots of additional wandering spirits through some mechanism, as they would add versatility, not extra uses of powers. A feat, Extra Wandering Spirit Gift, would let you leverage your spirits (permanent and wandering) for more temporary relevations.
I'll mention again my suggestion of using arcanist spell preparation. If you use the cleric list, and simply add the spirit magic to the spells in hand, you end up with a fairly versatile caster.
All very good suggestions ;)
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I'm all for using Charisma as the spellcasting stat, and I don't think there is a prepared charisma based caster, so it would be unique.
A shaman relies on convincing spirits to aid him/her....that can easily be justified as a charisma based caster.
Being a prepared caster gives them the range of spells implied by gaining spells from multiple spirits.
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I'd love the spirit animal to be an animal companion instead of a familiar, as an aside... except rather than it becoming like a combat brute, instead provides various spirit-related abilities.
I'm pretty sure this is what some other 3PP shaman did. I'm leaning towards Open Design, but I'm not sure.
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I'm really excited about the change to using the Druid spell list for the Shaman. I would really like to see further tuning of the Shaman spirits.
The life spirit hexes really needs some attention, as well as the battle spirit. The life spirit ability at 8th level is horrible. I think the life spell list also needs to be updated, possibly adding some healing spells like cure light wounds instead of detect undead. Since the shaman spell list isn't limited like the oracle and these spells represent spontaneous casting. At 1st level losing your spell because it's so situation-locked really hurts.
I would also like to see more ranged special abilities granted by spirits. A lot of the 1st level special abilities require melee touch attacks and for a caster this often wont be very useful. I think the best option here is to allow your familiar to deliver your touch spirit special abilities as well as your hexes and spells.
It also seems that a lot of the hexes and abilities need to have their associated stat updated for wisdom being the primary stat.
I'd also be interested in seeing a cold spirit. The waves spirit adds bonuses to doing cold damage or water damage but I don't know of a lot of water damage spells and there aren't any cold damage spells on the waves spirit list.
Hey there folks,
Of all the classes in the playtest, I feel like this one probably still needs the most work (or close to it). There is certainly not enough witch in the class as it currently stands and the spell list still does not sit right with me. There are also a fair number of problems with the spirits that need to be addressed.
Keep up the good comments folks... we are listening.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
I think there are some obvious fixes if the desire is more witch and a less awkward spell list. While I was very happy to see the druid list get augmented, I would also be happy to see is scrapped for something new.
Why not use the witch spell list as a base? This gets the witch back in on the action and gives a decent backbone to work from.
From there, the list could be augmented as has been done with the current list, or augmented by spirits.
Perhaps not so obvious, but Nighttree posted in the other thread about the spirits affecting the spell list more dramatically and I really dig that idea. The spirits could either give more than one spell per level, or there could be a new type of spirit that does nothing but grant a chunk of spells with a certain theme. To have a more witchy feel, it could be a patron spirit incarnation that grants the same spells the witches patrons do.
The other thing that I think would be an obvious witch injection, would be to boost the buff/debuff hexes. That is a defining characteristic of the witch, but in the shaman there are only a handful of buff/debuff hexes that look alright. This could be some universal access to some witch hexes or perhaps some similar ones. How about something like evil eye that instead attacks a specific stat? or something like sleep that instead paralyzes a foe, fluff it as your spirits are either frightening or possessing them. Hell, for that matter a hex that could do tricks with the fear chain would be a fun debuff.
That reminds me, I made a witch archetype that runs off of this type of spirit communion and fear for the last RPG superstar contest. I would love to see something like gheist or concentrate terror as a hex in this class.
Thinking about this class and the witch. The familiar links this class thematically with the witch, but doesn't affect how the class plays very much. Part of what makes the witch, the witch, is that the Hex list is full of flavorful, fun, and witchy abilities, including some that aren't even mechanically very strong. But they get flight, child-scent, animated huts, and of course, cackling.
To be like the witch in that regard, the shaman can't just borrow a bunch of revelations and call them hexes. They need a bunch of "shamanic gifts" that grant very shamanic things, like visions of the future, spirit lodges, chant (something like a cackle, but for buffs), scrying, magic jar, ethereal jaunts, consecration circles, etc. One category of gifts could be oracle revelations that match up with the corresponding spirit (relieving you of the need to rewrite all the mysteries as spirits with their own hex lists). Another gift could be to add another wandering spirit.
I agree, I think it would make more sense and make the class feel more like a witch to have its hexes follow the model of witch hexes rather than oracle revelations. I'm guessing the Spirit Lodge would be basically analogous to Coven? I really like both that idea and Chant, though I think Chant should work for both buffs and debuffs, since Cackle does. Maybe also give a Spirit Trance ability that starts as a bonus to concentration checks and adds benefits as the Shaman levels, like immunity to fear or resistance to mind-affecting spells and effects? In terms of thematic flavorful abilities that aren't particularly useful, maybe an ability that lets a Shaman ignore the side effects of flayleaf or other entheogens.
I would remove the idea of a permanent spirit, as Craft Cheese suggested, and have all spirits be "wandering." Let the spirits keep the spells and spirits abilities they currently have, but give the class a universal pool of hexes much more mechanically reminiscent of the witch's hexes from which to choose. This puts the witch back in the class, gives more variability thanks to hex choices, and has less "moving parts" in the class framework to consider; if all spirits are wandering spirits, the abilities don't need to be balanced for primary spirits and wandering spirits. A sufficient variety of spirits and hexes should probably be able to accommodate all but the most extreme ideas of what the class should be, thematically.
I second (third, forth, whatever) the all wandering spirits idea.
What aspects of the spell list are you looking for feedback on?Its not really something I can crowd-source. Basing it off druid just does not feel right, despite the fact that it is a reasonable fit for the theme. I am still mulling it over, weighing options.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
That's a shame. Considering that every [X] Shaman archetype in the game is a druid archetype, I think the list makes a lot of sense.
Hmm, I think that some of the proposed fixes look more like a problem to me. I actually like the initial bonded spirit. It can indicate a communal heritage that the Shaman started on his/her path with. A Nature shaman has grown up hearing the whispers of nature, guiding her down the road, warning her of danger. The Flame shaman has grasped the fire in front of her, embracing its volatile nature, and flits around in search of grander blazes. The shaman of the heavens has always looked to the stars for guidance; they show him the way and their pull leads his allies to him.
The wandering spirit as written currently feels like a friend sharing the same path for a time before going on his way. Making all of the spirits be wandering makes it sound like you need an exorcist. In fact, you remove more of the "Witch" flavor for what is effectively the Haunted Oracle curse on crack. That's something that may not have been considered at the time, but it's how it feels to me.
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I like the idea of the shaman, but as others have said the class seems to be all over the place. How exactly does the spirit companion work? Is it an arcane familiar or an actual animal companion?
Spirit Animal (Ex): At 1st level, a shaman forms a close
bond with a spirit animal tied to her chosen spirit. This
animal is her conduit to the spirit world, guiding her
along the path to enlightenment. The animal also aids
a witch by granting her skill bonuses. This spirit animal
functions like a familiar using the wizard’s arcane bond
class feature, except as noted in the Spirit Animal section.
I'm thinking it's an animal companion that aids with bonuses and aids in physical combat, but I'm not sure. If it did this would probably be my new favorite class.
That's a shame. Considering that every [X] Shaman archetype in the game is a druid archetype, I think the list makes a lot of sense.
I guess that boils down to which you think is more important "a fusion of the two parent classes" or "the baggage some people have with the name."
Hmm, I think that some of the proposed fixes look more like a problem to me. I actually like the initial bonded spirit. It can indicate a communal heritage that the Shaman started on his/her path with. A Nature shaman has grown up hearing the whispers of nature, guiding her down the road, warning her of danger. The Flame shaman has grasped the fire in front of her, embracing its volatile nature, and flits around in search of grander blazes. The shaman of the heavens has always looked to the stars for guidance; they show him the way and their pull leads his allies to him.
If someone wanted that flavor, there is nothing to stop them from always keeping the same one. I would probably resort to the same one regularly because I like to focus a build around specific strengths for mechanical purposes, but for flavor purposes I would enjoy a little promiscuity now and then with my divinity. In part, this would be for the same reason my witches never think too much about their patrons and I rarely play characters with gods; I like my characters to be the center of their own worlds.
The wandering spirit as written currently feels like a friend sharing the same path for a time before going on his way. Making all of the spirits be wandering makes it sound like you need an exorcist. In fact, you remove more of the "Witch" flavor for what is effectively the Haunted Oracle curse on crack. That's something that may not have been considered at the time, but it's how it feels to me.
Well the witch doesn't really know what the patron is or why it is blessing them. Here you still don't know their true motivations, but perhaps know how to appease them or manipulate them to your desires a little more. You aren't really haunted because there is never any drawback to them, but it might be fun to RP some into the mix for some shamans. Actually I could see someone wanting to RP being haunted by different spirits and rolling randomly to see which ones come to them for the day.
I like the idea of the shaman, but as others have said the class seems to be all over the place. How exactly does the spirit companion work? Is it an arcane familiar or an actual animal companion?
Spirit Animal (Ex): At 1st level, a shaman forms a close
bond with a spirit animal tied to her chosen spirit. This
animal is her conduit to the spirit world, guiding her
along the path to enlightenment. The animal also aids
a witch by granting her skill bonuses. This spirit animal
functions like a familiar using the wizard’s arcane bond
class feature, except as noted in the Spirit Animal section.I'm thinking it's an animal companion that aids with bonuses and aids in physical combat, but I'm not sure. If it did this would probably be my new favorite class.
It's a familiar, though a Nature spirit focused shaman could turn it into an animal companion at 16th level. Sorry if that disappoints you.
@Sitri: Well it looks like we may be approaching an impasse on how we view characters and divinity. I tend to view my characters as a part of a world, but not the focal point of it. So that will skew my views here it seems in opposing directions from your viewpoint.
It seems like a no-brainer that if the default shaman is spirit-bonded, you could have an archetype that is all wandering spirits, or vice versa. That's far less of a change than some of the Summoner variants.
Well the witch doesn't really know what the patron is or why it is blessing them.
Exactly what witch patrons are, how they work, and what relationship they have with the witch is kept deliberately vague, though with spooky undertones throughout.
Here you still don't know their true motivations, but perhaps know how to appease them or manipulate them to your desires a little more. You aren't really haunted because there is never any drawback to them, but it might be fun to RP some into the mix for some shamans. Actually I could see someone wanting to RP being haunted by different spirits and rolling randomly to see which ones come to them for the day.
"Father doesn't need you, b$~&@!"
Can the spirit animal be taught spells like a witch's familiar? The class entry only references wizard familiars and has no spell book, but wizard familiars can't be taught spells.
Can the spirit animal be taught spells like a witch's familiar? The class entry only references wizard familiars and has no spell book, but wizard familiars can't be taught spells.
They have access to the whole spell list from the get go.
wait... so the 3.5 spirit shaman's casting mechanic was recycled for the arcanist, but we can't use it for the shaman too? it's a great system for the kind of flexibility i think a shaman should have and it's certainly better than the weird blend of prepared and spontaneous casting currently implemented.It was also the warmage and beguiler's casting mechanic if memory serves. That's not to say it wouldn't be a great fit for the shaman, because it would, but I also think it's a great fit for the arcanist.
nah, those other two were spontaneous casters that always knew their entire (extremely limited) spell lists. but yeah, i think bargaining with the spirits for a few spells per level to cast spontaneously for the day would be a great fit for the shaman.
edit: it really does seem like the shaman is going to need its own spell list.
Alright!
If someone wanted that flavor, there is nothing to stop them from always keeping the same one.
Yeah, exactly; having only wandering spirits leaves both options open, while ensuring that the spirits are designed so that they won't be broken as wandering spirits, or at least that they're designed with the wandering mechanic in mind.
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What aspects of the spell list are you looking for feedback on?Its not really something I can crowd-source. Basing it off druid just does not feel right, despite the fact that it is a reasonable fit for the theme. I am still mulling it over, weighing options.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Why not look at the various Elemental School spell lists including the Metal and Wood?
Druid does make some sense for theme as the Shamans will be the rural spiritual advisors kinda...
You could just use the Witch spell list.
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When I first heard spoilers about the shaman before the first playtest document came out, it was mentioned that the shaman's familiar would take on aspects of the shaman's chosen spirit. Mechanically, I like the small and flavourful abilities each spirit adds to the familiar, but what I had originally envisioned based on those spoilers was a class that got sort of a baked in improved familiar that made it more of a spirit than an animal.
For those not into the familiar, what if the class got automatic improved familiar but from an alternate list of familiars that were actual "spirits"? It would certainly go a long way toward making the spirits feel more involved in the shaman's day to day and would preserve the witch influence provided by the familiar without it feeling like an unrelated animal that just hangs around all the time.
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For those not into the familiar, what if the class got automatic improved familiar but from an alternate list of familiars that were actual "spirits"? It would certainly go a long way toward making the spirits feel more involved in the shaman's day to day and would preserve the witch influence provided by the familiar without it feeling like an unrelated animal that just hangs around all the time.
I'd actually prefer if the spirits walked with them in another way.
I am with Benn Roe on this one. A more powerful spirit ability would be nice. Templates for free in addition to the base granted things. I mean, it isn't outside the grasp of the imagination that your walking/flying/slithering star-map of a beasty would also have semi-aberrant features as well like as the pseudonatural template from 3.5. (I don't know if that ever made a return.) I mean, out the gate, prolly not going to start with it, but having your spirit animal grow more than a familiar does would go a long ways towards making me feel like all my eggs are in one basket safely.
The balance between all of these Spirits is indeed an issue. I am not going to beat that horse since it stopped breathing awhile ago, but I have to add that about one out of ten "hexes" are worth taking. Ordinarily, I get all uppity about having homogenized elemental domains/spirits/bloodlines, but in this case, I think that was fairly well done for uniqueness. The balance is a hard issue between them. Wind should go hard storm oriented instead for solid spell selection. Having two blaster types isn't a bad thing, especially in this case.
Really glad Jason commented on the Druid spell list. I think that was excessive and made a full caster Druid worth less (not worthless.)
IMO, Average BAB is unnecessary for this class. I think upping the power granted by the "hexes" across the board and forming a bad BAB progression is universally better balance-wise for a full caster. Sure it steps outside of the zone for a divine caster to have poor BAB, but if you up the familiar as well... You know on that point, Benn Roe's idea for a set list per spirit could give you a semi-Eidolon with less customization and power. It is effectively your "Patron" made manifest, and I think that needs to be shown harder.
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I'd also recommend an option, or at least an archetype, to use a bonded item as a fetish instead of having a spirit animal.
I would love to see the shaman get some sort of combined familiar/animal companion with additional spirit abilities based ok the totem spirit chosen and the incorporeal quality. It would get spell casting like the arcanist with additional flavorful spells added by the totem spirit and would use 1/2 BAB and d6 hd to balance it out.
I also like a number of the hex ideas mentioned above, the shaman should have a base pool of flavorful hexes and only get spirit powers from the totem and wandering spirit.
Wolfism gives inspiration on that too. What if your "hexes" were instead features added to your spirit "animal?" Animal deserves quotes now. Or even just having some of the "hexes" apply to it as well.
I hated the entire concept of Mythic when it released, but the idea of having universal "hexes" and having Spirit specific "hexes" is too good to throw away.
What aspects of the spell list are you looking for feedback on?Its not really something I can crowd-source. Basing it off druid just does not feel right, despite the fact that it is a reasonable fit for the theme. I am still mulling it over, weighing options.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Oracle list does feel right either, Divine Power and righteous might just feel off. To me a Shaman should primarily be a caster, not yet another Codzilla class.
Give it both list and hit it with 1/2 BAB.Or
Give it its own list.
One mayor problem with the class is the familiar. The Shaman need spells like Barkskin other protective spells to keep it alive.
I love the concept of the class, but I'm Sorry to say this, it feel like it needs its own class. A mix of witch and oracle would be fitting.
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Oracle list does feel right either, Divine Power and righteous might just feel off. To me a Shaman should primarily be a caster, not yet another Codzilla class.
Give it both list and hit it with 1/2 BAB.
Or
Give it its own list.
A lot of people have been saying the shaman should have a unique spell list that borrows some spells from both classes. The spirit feels too much like the witch familiar, and honestly, I didn't really want a second class saddled with those problems. I don't know why a shaman has a "familiar" anyways. The spirit should be a spirit, not an animal. It shouldn't be a physical, killable thing. That's too much redundancy with the witch, and it doesn't feel right for the class.
Wurm,the familiar is a physical manifestation of the spirit. It isn't so much as it is kill as banished by death. And given its purpose, it is the inherent strength and weakness of the class. It is a divine focus in this case, and it is an overlap, not a redundancy, which is exactly on par with the nature of the design.
At this point, the ideal is a 50/50 mix of witch and oracle which as far as I have gathered, has been to give make the patrons have a more profound effect rather than merely granting bonus spell knowledge. Remove the familiar and you have an oracle, simply put.
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Wurm,the familiar is a physical manifestation of the spirit. It isn't so much as it is kill as banished by death. And given its purpose, it is the inherent strength and weakness of the class. It is a divine focus in this case, and it is an overlap, not a redundancy, which is exactly on par with the nature of the design.
At this point, the ideal is a 50/50 mix of witch and oracle which as far as I have gathered, has been to give make the patrons have a more profound effect rather than merely granting bonus spell knowledge. Remove the familiar and you have an oracle, simply put.
I'm just not sure why a class that already feels kind of underwhelming needs another "weakness". Admittedly, it doesn't seem as bad as the witch's familiar in regards to drawbacks, but I have to ask the logical question:
If a shaman can commune with spirits, including spirits of the dead, why does the spirit animal need to be alive for the shaman to gain spells from it?
When looking at flat class features, yeah, it looks a bit underwhelming, but the potential that is there as a full caster? Compare this to a wizard. There is so much more here that an Arcane School ever dreamed of offering. The Familiar is forced but far better.
To answer the question though, I think this is more like a living holy symbol of sorts. It functions more like a magical anchor point for crazy shaman shenanigans.
On a side note to that though, the Bones spirit is terrible IMO. The spirit ability is weak and Deathly Being is something that the Advanced Race Guide has as a drawback/weakness for -1 race point. The Life spirit grants Channel Energy, but the Bones spirit gets 1d4 damage to one target? When will the energies of death quit getting the shaft. The greater ability is terrible in comparison to Stone's universally. Incorporeality? Shooting for Death Prophet here? Manifest is a bigger joke as well. If you want an idea on where to start creating Necromantic might, look at all the stuff Paizo has written on Tar-Baphon. The Whispering Tyrant's Animate Touch is a solid capstone for Manifest under Bones. Aura of Absolute Terror is a solid Greater as well. Necromastery shouldn't be the pinnacle of bale energies. This is the spirit of dread and death and should be treated as such.
On a side note to that though, the Bones spirit is terrible IMO.
Oh definitely agreed. It's not the only underwhelming part of the class, but it's a sore spot for sure.
I wish I could say what the shaman needs. All can do is look at the class and ask that vital question "Is the shaman a good shaman?" The answer I find myself giving is "Eh...I guess?"
Its not really something I can crowd-source. Basing it off druid just does not feel right, despite the fact that it is a reasonable fit for the theme. I am still mulling it over, weighing options.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead DesignerThe spell list is actually my favorite thing about the Shaman, and I would strongly recommend against changing it.
Druid is a class that has a lot of baggage - special abilities that you have to take that aren't necessarily related to each other. Having the Druid spell list available on an additional class that doesn't have that baggage fills a very large niche in my character design options.
That's exactly how I feel too. I really like the Druid-spelllist an I think It not only fits the shaman thematically, it also closes a gap in my Character choices. Until now If I wanted to play a nature themed caster, I also had to be a shape-shifting freak who babbles incoherently about some natural balance (aka a Druid). And that just doesn't fit every nature-themed character (or NPC) that I would want to build.
I also think the current idea of giving the shaman the druidspellist + some extra spells to deal with spirits is ingenious. Not only does it cover most of the things a shaman should be able to do, it also avoids having to create a unique shamanspellist. He currently has a spellist that can can use existing books and supplements and will keep on growing. A custom shamanlist would not have any golarionspecific spells and would have to be remembered whenever new spells were added.
That being said, the class still needs some work regarding spirits and hexes. Some Hexes are just plain bad (for example Fearful Gaze and Speak with animals), and the greater spirit ability of the Lifespirit is ... underwhelming.
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Since it is just us, Wurm. What are you looking for out of a shaman that you don't see here already?
I would say that my big issue with the shaman is that almost everything that makes it a shaman feels like flavor text. I would see a shaman as having core class abilities (not a selectable theme) that involve actually communing with local spirits (not just milking them for powers), physically or astrally traveling to the spirit realm, having the ability to bolster or banish spirits, and so forth.
I would also expect them to have some skill in special medicines, and the ability to perform rituals.
Since it is just us, Wurm. What are you looking for out of a shaman that you don't see here already?I would say that my big issue with the shaman is that almost everything that makes it a shaman feels like flavor text. I would see a shaman as having core class abilities (not a selectable theme) that involve actually communing with local spirits (not just milking them for powers), physically or astrally traveling to the spirit realm, having the ability to bolster or banish spirits, and so forth.
I would also expect them to have some skill in special medicines, and the ability to perform rituals.
That sounds more like an Alchemist/Witch hybrid than Oracle/Witch so the semantics is in the name.
Typo on Table 1-8: Shaman. Under spells per day, 5th and 4th are reversed.
Also, in Spirit Animal, the sentence "The animal also aids a witch by granting her skill bonuses." Witch should be replaced with shaman.
When a nature shaman's familiar becomes an animal companion at level 16, am I reading it correctly that it's BAB goes down 2, Fort and Ref each go up 3, Will goes down 5, NA goes up 2, Str and Dex go up by 5, it learns 6 tricks, gains 13 skill ranks, and gains 7 feats? Plus the adjustments for the actual animal you choose.
Thinking about this class and the witch. The familiar links this class thematically with the witch, but doesn't affect how the class plays very much. Part of what makes the witch, the witch, is that the Hex list is full of flavorful, fun, and witchy abilities, including some that aren't even mechanically very strong. But they get flight, child-scent, animated huts, and of course, cackling.
To be like the witch in that regard, the shaman can't just borrow a bunch of revelations and call them hexes. They need a bunch of "shamanic gifts" that grant very shamanic things, like visions of the future, spirit lodges, chant (something like a cackle, but for buffs), scrying, magic jar, ethereal jaunts, consecration circles, etc. One category of gifts could be oracle revelations that match up with the corresponding spirit (relieving you of the need to rewrite all the mysteries as spirits with their own hex lists). Another gift could be to add another wandering spirit.
Rather than having each spirit provide a whole menu, you would get the main shamanic list of gifts, plus your spirit's revelations. Wandering spirit would grant another set of spirit magic, and revelation choices you could pick from with wandering "hex" (gift).
With that mechanism in place, you could allow lots of additional wandering spirits through some mechanism, as they would add versatility, not extra uses of powers. A feat, Extra Wandering Spirit Gift, would let you leverage your spirits (permanent and wandering) for more temporary relevations.
I'll mention again my suggestion of using arcanist spell preparation. If you use the cleric list, and simply add the spirit magic to the spells in hand, you end up with a fairly versatile caster.
+1 to most of this. I feel the Druid list fits better thematically for a shaman, but having it behave as a divine arcanist is definitely an awesome option. If people want to make a healing shaman, maybe make the life spirit cover that better with its hexes (gifts), even to the point where they convert spell energy into healing spells.
The gifts idea also supports the free-spirited nature (no-pun intended) that I feel fits the flavor of the shaman class. Currently feels a little to regimented for a type of caster who would living by themselves or as a leader of a tribe.
Also, get rid of righteous might to save us from CODzillas.
Food for thought:
- Instead of having wild-shape, perhaps have early access to beast shape, elemental body spells, etc.? I feel that also would remove CODzillas and make the shaman class not step on the druid's wild-shaped toes as much.
I personally feel the shaman should be given a unique mix of arcane and divine spells ( witch - oracle) . Remove him the GODzilla spells like everybody above is talking ( like divine favor and divine power etc) and give him some support arcane spells like good hope for example.
It generally is a well made class with the spirit and wandering spirit but plz add somehow mechanics like ''voodoo'' or even ''tottem''
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Since it is just us, Wurm. What are you looking for out of a shaman that you don't see here already?I would say that my big issue with the shaman is that almost everything that makes it a shaman feels like flavor text. I would see a shaman as having core class abilities (not a selectable theme) that involve actually communing with local spirits (not just milking them for powers), physically or astrally traveling to the spirit realm, having the ability to bolster or banish spirits, and so forth.
I would also expect them to have some skill in special medicines, and the ability to perform rituals.
That's actually what I was thinking. Doesn't work if you focus too much on astral travel and spirit banishing like the 3.5 spirit shaman, but I'd rather see it more spiritually involved and the spirits take a more active part.