Profession (Murderhobo)


Rules Questions

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zylphryx wrote:
there's also the middle ground, MrSin. "Use common sense."

Fantastic! Then I can use the term murderhobo. Wait, what? your telling me people disagree with me? Wierdos. Common sense is supposed to be common, so start agreeing with me!

Edit: Common Sense says the term isn't really offensive imo. Its not a derogatory racial term or something similar. Its not even meant to be offensive to gamers! More like a humorous look at the life of an adventurer.

Sovereign Court

MrSin wrote:
zylphryx wrote:
Bottom line is different people are going to view the use of the term in different ways. If some of those folks could take offense at the term being used, then the GM needs to handle it as they would any other term that could pose offense.
No, that's not a good way to handle things I don't think. Then someone who things the term apple is offensive means you can never use apples. I think the phrase is "a test that fails itself" because literally nothing can pass it. Even nothing can't pass it! Someone out there said "Nothing is offensive" once.

Except in this case there is clearly a segment of folks who play and folks who GM who find the use of the term offensive, as proven by folks posting in this and other threads.

If I was at a table and someone said "apples offend me, do not use apples", I would ask for a reason behind it. Prior to these threads, I would have handled the term "murderhobo" the same way (though I have never been a fan of its generalization to cover all adventurers).

Again, this falls back on the "use common sense" element. If one is not willing or able to use common sense, then don't be surprised to end up with an ever increasing rule set for Organized Play ... kinda like the banking industry just getting a 900+ page rule re: investment practices; no common sense used, more rules get applied.

Sovereign Court

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MrSin wrote:
zylphryx wrote:
there's also the middle ground, MrSin. "Use common sense."

Fantastic! Then I can use the term murderhobo. Wait, what? your telling me people disagree with me? Wierdos. Common sense is supposed to be common, so start agreeing with me!

Edit: Common Sense says the term isn't really offensive imo. Its not a derogatory racial term or something similar. Its not even meant to be offensive to gamers! More like a humorous look at the life of an adventurer.

Common sense would dictate that if there is the potential for offense to be taken, then you do not continue with the action.

Kinda like the "don't be a jerk" rule should be common sense ...


Profession (slayfarer).


Is it possible in PFS Play to adopt an Unfriendly or Hostile attitude towards NPCs or in the case of NPCs to Player Characters?

How would said characters RP such interactions of Unfriendliness or Hostility? Is it against PFS rules to use offensive language towards NPCs?

Honestly I'm kind of poking fun, but I am genuinely curious if there are any RP restrictions about being offensive in character.

Edit. Like uhm, mean talking before you stab them to death.

Sovereign Court

Personally, as long as the RPed interaction does not cross the line with sexist/racist/generally offensive language, then I let it run.

I fully expect someone to pose the question "but what if I call him a murderhobo"?


zylphryx wrote:
I fully expect someone to pose the question "but what if I call him a murderhobo"?

Well obviously anyone who uses the term murderhobo is going out of their way to be offensive and ruin your good time right?

Sovereign Court

My counter to that question you quoted would be "Oh, you mean like a person who kills indiscriminately and without reason, without regard to guilt or innocence, without regard to collateral damage or injury, all for the sake of coin?"


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zylphryx wrote:
My counter to that question you quoted would be "Oh, you mean like a person who kills indiscriminately and without reason, without regard to guilt or innocence, without regard to collateral damage or injury, all for the sake of coin?"

Erm... No. Pretty sure when people say I roll dayjob check and its for murderhobo, they just want a quick laugh and to get on with it like everyone else.

Sovereign Court

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The more this debate goes on, the more I am realizing that common sense will apparently not be used by folks regarding it.

And since it took an actual rule to be written out to make clear what should have been common sense to everyone, perhaps PFS campaign leadership should set pen to paper to expand the "don't be a jerk rule" to include all possible examples, like using terms you know could cause offense at a public game table.

Once that task is complete, I fully expect scenario production to resume in 2018. ;)

I'm done with this debate. Just know you should expect table variation if you use Profession (murderhobo) and have fun giving PFS leadership more work to do. ;p


Pizza Lord wrote:

I wouldn't allow Profession (Murderhobo). This goes beyond whether or not the GM's aunt was murdered by a hobo for the $17 and prescription medication he saw in her purse (which may have only been Estrogen). Sure, it may be his 'issue' so maybe it's all his fault that it sounds stupid.

Basically, I just find the term to be jarring and inappropriate. I also wouldn't allow Profession (PKer) or some other contemporary slang. It provides the wrong atmosphere that I expect at a game table.

Calling your Improved Unarmed Strike feat 'Couture Cultured' or 'UFC FTW!' might be clever, but the second time you brought it up at game I would ask you to change it. It's one of things that's amusing to discuss and possibly picture in your head how it might work, but not really something you want to see happen.

And there's the thing: someone is trying to be jarring, to get recognized for their cute phrase. "Whoa, brah, that's totally sick! I'm gonna put Profession (Master Sergeant) on my sheet now!"

And after the first few times GMs who may not be up on the latest Internet or gamer lingo run across this and stare with a blank look as things grind to a halt, it starts being a little less funny to everyone else who came to the table to play. If a player's sheet included Monty Python or you had Profession (Jedi Master) or whatever on there, I'd say the same thing: you are looking for attention.


zylphryx wrote:

Personally, as long as the RPed interaction does not cross the line with sexist/racist/generally offensive language, then I let it run.

I fully expect someone to pose the question "but what if I call him a murderhobo"?

So you can't call the badguy a "Dirty thieving halfling!" implying that all halflings are thieves. I can think of a long list of half-orc insults as well as some funny things about drow and their resemblence to dryders, something I would consider mature banter.

Its just wierd you can stab them to death, you just can't say mean things to them.


BOOM! The thread explodes.

The answer to the question is Yes, you can create a profession.

Dark Archive

I believe the sniper in TF2 put it best with "stab stab stab!"

Anyway, here is the question that needs to be asked. Is it right to disallow something that will only offend a minority of players based purely on that fact? Probably not. Heck, I'm pretty sure my cliche-as-get-out dwarven barbarian would agitate a minority of players with just HOW cliche it is. Accent? Check. MASSIVE list of alcohol in its equipment? Check. The ability to use its beard to perform feats of superhuman strength and agility? Check. The ability to literally end almost every combat in the same round it starts? Check. Its hatred of elves is such that if it is partied with an elf, it will probably make snide remarks about everything they do, right up until they prove they aren't the Golarion equivalent of a hippy.

Thus far I have never had anyone take offense to these things, but I'm willing to bet money some people would. Be they people with an affinity for playing elves, someone that disagrees with every drunk Scotsman cliche in existence being shoved into one character, or just a GM that doesn't like it when the boss gets hit for about 300 damage in one round. There are plenty of reasons someone might take issue with that character, but I would certainly still play it. Did I intend for it to be a sort of character that might offend others? Nope. That being said, I did eventually realize that not a lot of people these days are familiar with the drunk dwarf cliche, and may assume it is indeed about the Scottish.I dare say the vast majority of people would see it as nothing more than the humorous representation of a buff midget wearing not one of those booze hats you see people wear during the Superbowl, but a tapped keg backpack from which it extracts glorious intoxication.

That was a lot more long winded than I anticipated, but I'm sure the point has been conveyed. There are people that get offended far too easily, and a lot of character concepts I've seen could easily be taken as such by such individuals.

By the way;
Profession: Orcslayer


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The Morphling wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
The vehement negative reactions in this thread have transformed Profession (Murderhobo) from a silly example of custom professions to something I legitimately can't wait to see people react to at a table.
So, your reaction to finding out something is incredibly controversial and offensive to some, is to become even more interested in doing it just to watch them react? Yeah, I'm gonna call that out as being a jerk to the people at the table.

If others are having that big of a problem with words that are on my character sheet, not theirs, they're the jerks.

Unrelated sidenote: At our tables, "Weapon Focus" is nicknamed "Skill Focus (Murderhobo)."

So are any words on your character sheet completely off limits for criticism?

Is absolutely anything acceptable as a Profession skill for a Day Job?
Profession(Day Job)?
Can I grab random words out of the dictionary? Or just nonsense syllables?

Or in the other direction can I use more meaningful but offensive terms? Or ones that certainly imply evil? Profession(Murderer)? Profession(Serial Killer)? Profession(Rapist)? Profession(Pedophile)? Or start using offensive racist or sexist slang as my Profession?
After all, it's just words on my character sheet, not theirs, right?

Sovereign Court

James B. Cline wrote:
zylphryx wrote:

Personally, as long as the RPed interaction does not cross the line with sexist/racist/generally offensive language, then I let it run.

I fully expect someone to pose the question "but what if I call him a murderhobo"?

So you can't call the badguy a "Dirty thieving halfling!" implying that all halflings are thieves. I can think of a long list of half-orc insults as well as some funny things about drow and their resemblence to dryders, something I would consider mature banter.

Its just wierd you can stab them to death, you just can't say mean things to them.

So this is a different element that I will address.

No, you are putting words in my mouth. You want to call the NPC a "dirty thieving halfling"? Go for it.

You want call the NPC a "[insert expletive here] [insert sexist term] [insert real world racist slur here]"? Expect to be interrupted, warned that language like that is not acceptable and if it continues you will get kicked from the table and most likely banned from any table I run, at best temporarily until you prove to me that you can behave, at worst permanently.

But you know, I would consider all this common sense as well ...

Lantern Lodge

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Can we go back to when this thread was entertaining? More song lyrics, please.

For the record:

Profession (Therapist)
Profession (Critic)
Craft (Knockoff Trade Goods)
Perform (Panhandling)


thejeff wrote:

Or in the other direction can I use more meaningful but offensive terms? Or ones that certainly imply evil? Profession(Murderer)? Profession(Serial Killer)? Profession(Rapist)? Profession(Pedophile)? Or start using offensive racist or sexist slang as my Profession?

After all, it's just words on my character sheet, not theirs, right?

Well first off, those things don't infer you make money, and second, those are far more of an attempt to be evil or offensive and not at all a joke.


MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Or in the other direction can I use more meaningful but offensive terms? Or ones that certainly imply evil? Profession(Murderer)? Profession(Serial Killer)? Profession(Rapist)? Profession(Pedophile)? Or start using offensive racist or sexist slang as my Profession?

After all, it's just words on my character sheet, not theirs, right?
Well first off, those things don't infer you make money, and second, those are far more of an attempt to be evil or offensive and not at all a joke.

Ok. So there are limits and the GM is entitled to question your choice of Profession. Or rule it as offensive and thus not acceptable.

The only question is where is the line drawn.


The Beard wrote:

I believe the sniper in TF2 put it best with "stab stab stab!"

Anyway, here is the question that needs to be asked. Is it right to disallow something that will only offend a minority of players based purely on that fact? Probably not. Heck, I'm pretty sure my cliche-as-get-out dwarven barbarian would agitate a minority of players with just HOW cliche it is. Accent? Check. MASSIVE list of alcohol in its equipment? Check. The ability to use its beard to perform feats of superhuman strength and agility? Check. The ability to literally end almost every combat in the same round it starts? Check. Its hatred of elves is such that if it is partied with an elf, it will probably make snide remarks about everything they do, right up until they prove they aren't the Golarion equivalent of a hippy.

Thus far I have never had anyone take offense to these things, but I'm willing to bet money some people would. Be they people with an affinity for playing elves, someone that disagrees with every drunk Scotsman cliche in existence being shoved into one character, or just a GM that doesn't like it when the boss gets hit for about 300 damage in one round. There are plenty of reasons someone might take issue with that character, but I would certainly still play it. Did I intend for it to be a sort of character that might offend others? Nope. That being said, I did eventually realize that not a lot of people these days are familiar with the drunk dwarf cliche, and may assume it is indeed about the Scottish.I dare say the vast majority of people would see it as nothing more than the humorous representation of a buff midget wearing not one of those booze hats you see people wear during the Superbowl, but a tapped keg backpack from which it extracts glorious intoxication.

That was a lot more long winded than I anticipated, but I'm sure the point has been conveyed. There are people that get offended far too easily, and a lot of character concepts I've seen could easily be taken as such by such individuals.

By the way;...

See, none of that offends me, because it is In Character and is part of the character itself. You don't have a sword that you thought was cute to have play the small blue people's themesong when you draw it, you don't have Profession (Jetson), and so on. While a cliche or even annoying to some, it is In Character and In Game annoyances, the sort that inspires role playing and interesting game moments.

Dark Archive

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Can we go back to when this thread was entertaining? More song lyrics, please.

For the record:

Profession (Therapist)
Profession (Critic)
Craft (Knockoff Trade Goods)
Perform (Panhandling)

Profession (Canine Nutritional Adviser)

Craft (Yellow Snow Sculptures)
Profession (Lawyer): Lotta forum folk think they put ranks in this one.
Profession (Waterboy) or alternatively;
Profession (H20 Technician)

Wait wait wait. Profession (Jetson)? That was far more amusing to me than you probably intended for it to be. In the end it is as has been said. Different people are offended by different things. Where do we draw the line? That is the hard question to answer.


Zylphryx, I didn't mean to offend nor put words in your mouth. I haven't read much information on PFS and don't know where they draw their bad taste line at. I know they ban certain mechanics, but I couldn't tell you which ones. That was an example I was giving as a question. Thank you for your answer though.

As to common sense, of course, I expect OOC interactions to be polite and free from sexist/racist/whatever comments. But if I'm playing a female Amazon I kind of expect her to be a bit sexist and in my opinion that's ok and good RP. For instance, in another RPG Vampire the Masquerade there's plenty of examples of real world vices done in-play, its expected in-character. Out of Character you will get reemed and disciplined by the organization. The point is I was wondering if CHARACTERS were allowed to do these things. Like the stereotypical drunk dwarf, theiving halfling, obsessive compulsive gnome, or whatnot.

Dark Archive

James B. Cline wrote:
The point is I was wondering if CHARACTERS were allowed to do these things. Like the stereotypical drunk dwarf, theiving halfling, obsessive compulsive gnome, or whatnot.

Oh yeah, characters are definitely allowed to do these things. You've just got to taper it off a bit if it might make someone uncomfortable. Pretty well standard stuff, y'know? You also need to be wary of actions that may shift your alignment, as your character will be kicked from the campaign if it becomes evil. Personally, I wouldn't be above sacrificing a character if it meant I got to send them out in some kind of overly hilarious, confusing way. Humor is sometimes a wonderful thing.


Off topic here, but the last Vampire:TM Larp I went to one of the more experienced players verbally beat down half the room (like 20 people) with robust social grace, it was impressive. I can tell you my character was terrified, but OOC I was amazed at how good of a roleplayer he was. Was it offensive, oh yes, was it beautifully done? Yes as well.

I don't mind loosing a charater or making sub-prime decisions as long as it follows the mindset of my character. Splitting the party to save an NPC he's fond of or mistreating random Human pc's when I'm playing a racist elf. Sort of like the Aldimiri Dominion, lol.


thejeff wrote:
MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Or in the other direction can I use more meaningful but offensive terms? Or ones that certainly imply evil? Profession(Murderer)? Profession(Serial Killer)? Profession(Rapist)? Profession(Pedophile)? Or start using offensive racist or sexist slang as my Profession?

After all, it's just words on my character sheet, not theirs, right?
Well first off, those things don't infer you make money, and second, those are far more of an attempt to be evil or offensive and not at all a joke.
Ok. So there are limits and the GM is entitled to question your choice of Profession. Or rule it as offensive and thus not acceptable.

I never said any of that. I will say that if someone is performing those acts in play you should really contact your coordinator, VC, and so on. Being evil is a no no in PFS, and chances are your coordinator won't appreciate anyone describing those things in detail.

Sovereign Court

@James There certainly can be those elements within PFS, though they are not on par with the level within the White Wolf universe.

Basically, if it is a public game, keep it PG13 is the standard. After all, kids are welcome to the game table just as much as 20 somethings, 30 somethings, 40 somethings, etc, etc, etc. There is no point to freaking out a kid's parents (or the 20/30/40/50/etc. year old who has differing views about the world than you do) ... all it does is potentially drive away folks who could have been regular players.

That said, the level of acceptability will vary from table to table. If everyone at the table knows one another, sure, the thresholds relax, sometimes a good bit. But each GM will have their personal limits to which they will adhere in those situations. Mine would be throwing around sexist and/or real world racial slurs as "roleplaying".

Private games are the most relaxed as far as PFS goes, which is why I have been arguing a common sense approach, but it apparently is falling on either deaf or just intentionally confrontational ears.


zylphryx wrote:
James B. Cline wrote:
zylphryx wrote:

Personally, as long as the RPed interaction does not cross the line with sexist/racist/generally offensive language, then I let it run.

I fully expect someone to pose the question "but what if I call him a murderhobo"?

So you can't call the badguy a "Dirty thieving halfling!" implying that all halflings are thieves. I can think of a long list of half-orc insults as well as some funny things about drow and their resemblence to dryders, something I would consider mature banter.

Its just wierd you can stab them to death, you just can't say mean things to them.

So this is a different element that I will address.

No, you are putting words in my mouth. You want to call the NPC a "dirty thieving halfling"? Go for it.

You want call the NPC a "[insert expletive here] [insert sexist term] [insert real world racist slur here]"? Expect to be interrupted, warned that language like that is not acceptable and if it continues you will get kicked from the table and most likely banned from any table I run, at best temporarily until you prove to me that you can behave, at worst permanently.

But you know, I would consider all this common sense as well ...

Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

For the zillionth time, I thank my lucky stars my local PFS crew would rather play Pathfinder than search zealously for ways to prevent people from enjoying Pathfinder.

And the sheer amount of RAAAAAAAAGE in this thread... which is about the word "murderhobo" ...is hilarious. *popcorn*


The Morphling wrote:

For the zillionth time, I thank my lucky stars my local PFS crew would rather play Pathfinder than search zealously for ways to prevent people from enjoying Pathfinder.

And the sheer amount of RAAAAAAAAGE in this thread... which is about the word "murderhobo" ...is hilarious. *popcorn*

Yes, it does limit your enjoyment playing Pathfinder to not be able to put down Profession (Whatever Joke I Feel Will Get Me Laughs) on your sheet.

I imagine the amount of rage is almost equivalent to the amount of "It's my RIGHT to do what I want!" that is being bandied about. YMMV.


I once ran a teaching game at a local gaming store where a group of kids bum rushed my table and grabbed every Rogue pregen I had. I would describe their playstyle as "murder hobos", but that's because that's what they were doing. They were running around in a pack robbbing townspeople and breaking into shops being thugs. Of course before I had to get heavy handed to keep it PG, PG13 for older teens, luckily one of my other new players who was older sat down with a paladin and pressed them into service.

My normal gaming group, I don't care if they play evil. I tend to run very dark games, but there's never any PC/PC violence.

Sovereign Court

blahpers wrote:
zylphryx wrote:
James B. Cline wrote:
zylphryx wrote:

Personally, as long as the RPed interaction does not cross the line with sexist/racist/generally offensive language, then I let it run.

I fully expect someone to pose the question "but what if I call him a murderhobo"?

So you can't call the badguy a "Dirty thieving halfling!" implying that all halflings are thieves. I can think of a long list of half-orc insults as well as some funny things about drow and their resemblence to dryders, something I would consider mature banter.

Its just wierd you can stab them to death, you just can't say mean things to them.

So this is a different element that I will address.

No, you are putting words in my mouth. You want to call the NPC a "dirty thieving halfling"? Go for it.

You want call the NPC a "[insert expletive here] [insert sexist term] [insert real world racist slur here]"? Expect to be interrupted, warned that language like that is not acceptable and if it continues you will get kicked from the table and most likely banned from any table I run, at best temporarily until you prove to me that you can behave, at worst permanently.

But you know, I would consider all this common sense as well ...

Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

If you start throwing out sexist slurs in character at a public table, I would tell you to watch what you say and check your language. "But I am playing my character" does not excuse throwing out terms that others could find offensive (and I really can't see ANYONE making the argument that sexist slurs really should not be found offensive) ... it's all really part of the core assumption ... which should again be common sense. ;)

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
knightnday wrote:
The Morphling wrote:

For the zillionth time, I thank my lucky stars my local PFS crew would rather play Pathfinder than search zealously for ways to prevent people from enjoying Pathfinder.

And the sheer amount of RAAAAAAAAGE in this thread... which is about the word "murderhobo" ...is hilarious. *popcorn*

Yes, it does limit your enjoyment playing Pathfinder to not be able to put down Profession (Whatever Joke I Feel Will Get Me Laughs) on your sheet.

I imagine the amount of rage is almost equivalent to the amount of "It's my RIGHT to do what I want!" that is being bandied about. YMMV.

A GM at my table saying "C'mon man, that profession isn't really appropriate" is not raging.

The vehement arguments and furious debate on a forum proclaiming how righteously they would smite any such hooligans at their table is raging. And is very amusing.


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blahpers wrote:
zylphryx wrote:


No, you are putting words in my mouth. You want to call the NPC a "dirty thieving halfling"? Go for it.

You want call the NPC a "[insert expletive here] [insert sexist term] [insert real world racist slur here]"? Expect to be interrupted, warned that language like that is not acceptable and if it continues you will get kicked from the table and most likely banned from any table I run, at best temporarily until you prove to me that you can behave, at worst permanently.

But you know, I would consider all this common sense as well ...

Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

No. Your character can be sexist or racist.

It's your job not to offend the other players while doing so. And, if you're playing at an open table where you don't know the other participants well, you should err on the side of caution.
Avoid real world racist or sexist slurs, at the very least. Avoid joking about rape, even in character. Don't use your character's sexism or racism to spoil the game for other players.
You know, common sense.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
blahpers wrote:
Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

You can have a sexist, racist, unwashed jerk of a PC... so long as your RPing of them doesn't cross over into real-world jerkishness. A mysogynistic paladin is fine, so long as the player isn't pissing off the other people at the table with his crass humor. If the players he's playing with aren't being annoyed, he's probably doing it right.

Saying "That stupid <expletive> failed because she's a woman!" is being a jerk. Playing a character who's flabbergasted that he was out-fought by a girl is not.


The Morphling wrote:
For the zillionth time, I thank my lucky stars my local PFS crew would rather play Pathfinder than search zealously for ways to prevent people from enjoying Pathfinder.

Don't put this out where your local GMs can read it. You give us ideas. Such evil, evil ideas. >:D

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Mystically Inclined wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
For the zillionth time, I thank my lucky stars my local PFS crew would rather play Pathfinder than search zealously for ways to prevent people from enjoying Pathfinder.
Don't put this out where your local GMs can read it. You give us ideas. Such evil, evil ideas. >:D

Why yes, but our local flavor of evil makes Pathfinder more fun and challenging. Specifically, it's the flavor of evil that doesn't come mixed with chunks of jerk. :P


MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Or in the other direction can I use more meaningful but offensive terms? Or ones that certainly imply evil? Profession(Murderer)? Profession(Serial Killer)? Profession(Rapist)? Profession(Pedophile)? Or start using offensive racist or sexist slang as my Profession?

After all, it's just words on my character sheet, not theirs, right?
Well first off, those things don't infer you make money, and second, those are far more of an attempt to be evil or offensive and not at all a joke.
Ok. So there are limits and the GM is entitled to question your choice of Profession. Or rule it as offensive and thus not acceptable.
I never said any of that. I will say that if someone is performing those acts in play you should really contact your coordinator, VC, and so on. Being evil is a no no in PFS, and chances are your coordinator won't appreciate anyone describing those things in detail.

So those examples would be alright for Day Job rolls if you were running? As long as the player didn't go into detail or perform them in play?


The Morphling wrote:
knightnday wrote:
The Morphling wrote:

For the zillionth time, I thank my lucky stars my local PFS crew would rather play Pathfinder than search zealously for ways to prevent people from enjoying Pathfinder.

And the sheer amount of RAAAAAAAAGE in this thread... which is about the word "murderhobo" ...is hilarious. *popcorn*

Yes, it does limit your enjoyment playing Pathfinder to not be able to put down Profession (Whatever Joke I Feel Will Get Me Laughs) on your sheet.

I imagine the amount of rage is almost equivalent to the amount of "It's my RIGHT to do what I want!" that is being bandied about. YMMV.

A GM at my table saying "C'mon man, that profession isn't really appropriate" is not raging.

The vehement arguments and furious debate on a forum proclaiming how righteously they would smite any such hooligans at their table is raging. And is very amusing.

As are the vehement arguments and furious debate from those demanding the right.


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zylphryx wrote:
My counter to that question you quoted would be "Oh, you mean like a person who kills indiscriminately and without reason, without regard to guilt or innocence, without regard to collateral damage or injury, all for the sake of coin?"

Please do not make such offensive assertions against murderhoboes, it is highly uncalled for. As a representative for the Golarion Union of Murderhoboes for the Betterment of Others, I must take a stand and condemn your aggressive anti-murderhobo rhetoric. Especially since we are very discriminate in whom we kill. Our reason is to support our families. One of our member's children is afflicted with an unusual strain of mummyrot (long story) and requires intensive medical care 24/7. The rising costs of healthcare in today's lagging economy cripple us all financially. The ultra-rich Decemvirate, Pathfinder Society, and all the nations of Golarion fail to provide adequately for the less fortunate and the downtrodden.

We no longer have the time or liberty to consider guilt and innocence since it is our lives and our families at stake should we fail to earn our daily bread. In any case, our consciences weigh heavily on our hearts for some of our actions. Many of the venerable GUMBO members suffer night terrors and panic attacks due to the haunting memories they have. It is for this reason that we try to restrict collateral damage as much as possible with regard to those we know are unrelated to our mission. The only time that property damage in excess of the necessary is okay is when it helps to restore equality or provide restitution for the disparity between the economic classes.

Do not insult and decry us! Do not deprive and deny us!
We will stand united in the streets across Golarion!
GUMBO will rise up like a furious tempest against the winds of oppression. When we succeed in our noble quest despite the horrid slander and libel we murderhoboes are burdened with, the common folk shall rejoice!
Long Live the Murderhoboes!! Down with the Decemvirate!

This message was paid for by the generous contributions of hundreds of murderhoboes. This message contains an excerpt from a speech by GUMBO Administrator of Civil and Violent Reform, (Mr. Donnier Krokodil Hewletzt), and was transcribed by Absalom's GUMBO Representative Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs.


'"Hey, I noticed you have entered 'murderhobo' in your profession on your character sheet. Do you intend to try to actually use the profession rules for that?"

"Of course I do."

"Well, that introduces some issues that we'll have to talk about. If your character actually thinks they have a profession of 'murderhobo' and want to exercise that profession, then you might run into some alignment issues. Besides that, do you really think it's appropriate to call yourself a 'murderer' in a game that children will be playing or watching?"

"You can't stop me. It's within the rules."

"Well, that's not actually apparent to me. I'm not sure it is."

"Stop your fun-killing dystopian totalitarian regime enforcement! Your rage is killing all my fun!"

"Um... have you considered medication?"


thejeff wrote:
So those examples would be alright for Day Job rolls if you were running? As long as the player didn't go into detail or perform them in play?

Depends on the circumstances, just like anything else.


Adamantine Dragon wrote:

'"Hey, I noticed you have entered 'murderhobo' in your profession on your character sheet. Do you intend to try to actually use the profession rules for that?"

"Of course I do."

So AD, do you play PFS?


The Morphling wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

You can have a sexist, racist, unwashed jerk of a PC... so long as your RPing of them doesn't cross over into real-world jerkishness. A mysogynistic paladin is fine, so long as the player isn't pissing off the other people at the table with his crass humor. If the players he's playing with aren't being annoyed, he's probably doing it right.

Saying "That stupid <expletive> failed because she's a woman!" is being a jerk. Playing a character who's flabbergasted that he was out-fought by a girl is not.

I'm not talking about players using their character as an excuse to be misogynist to other players. I'm talking about playing a character that behaves in a sexist manner toward other characters in-game. Such a character might reasonably lead to the character using an epithet, whether a real one or something that only exists in-game, in reference to the target of his or her bigotry. Similar things can happen with bigotry towards a race (or species), social class, nationality, religion, and so on.

Can a PC only be a "soft" bigot in PFS, having low expectations of a girl/elf/stablehand/Taldan/Desnan? That would be a shame. It'd ruin some decent roleplaying hooks and chances for rich character development. I'd have to toss at least one character concept related to sexism and more than one related to the other prejudices.


MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
So those examples would be alright for Day Job rolls if you were running? As long as the player didn't go into detail or perform them in play?
Depends on the circumstances, just like anything else.

What circumstances? It's a PFS game. The game is ending. You as GM ask about about Day Jobs.

I say "Rapist - Got a 23."
or "Murderer - Rolled 25."

What circumstances are involved in a Day Job roll?


thejeff wrote:
MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
So those examples would be alright for Day Job rolls if you were running? As long as the player didn't go into detail or perform them in play?
Depends on the circumstances, just like anything else.

What circumstances? It's a PFS game. The game is ending. You as GM ask about about Day Jobs.

I say "Rapist - Got a 23."
or "Murderer - Rolled 25."

What circumstances are involved in a Day Job roll?

Here thar be hyperbole and leading the witness.


MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
MrSin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
So those examples would be alright for Day Job rolls if you were running? As long as the player didn't go into detail or perform them in play?
Depends on the circumstances, just like anything else.

What circumstances? It's a PFS game. The game is ending. You as GM ask about about Day Jobs.

I say "Rapist - Got a 23."
or "Murderer - Rolled 25."

What circumstances are involved in a Day Job roll?

Here thar be hyperbole and leading the witness.

I'm really just curious. Are there any limits on Day Job rolls, in your opinion?

If not, then there's nothing further to talk about. If so, then we can discuss what they are.

Shadow Lodge

zylphryx wrote:
My counter to that question you quoted would be "Oh, you mean like a person who kills indiscriminately and without reason, without regard to guilt or innocence, without regard to collateral damage or injury, all for the sake of coin?"

Except that's a raving lunatic, not a murderhobo. Those to whom the murderhobo label applies would more accurately be described as a transient vigilante. Transient, because unless the campaign sticks to one small area, they usually don't have a permanent home...they live in inns along their journey, at least on the lucky days when proximity and wealth allow for it. On other days, they end up sleeping under the stars.

They are also vigilantes, for whom extreme violence is a way of life. Let's face it, even if "kill something" isn't the first thing on your list of ways to resolve the problems the GM presents to you, it likely isn't very far down the list, do to the nature of the game.


blahpers wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

You can have a sexist, racist, unwashed jerk of a PC... so long as your RPing of them doesn't cross over into real-world jerkishness. A mysogynistic paladin is fine, so long as the player isn't pissing off the other people at the table with his crass humor. If the players he's playing with aren't being annoyed, he's probably doing it right.

Saying "That stupid <expletive> failed because she's a woman!" is being a jerk. Playing a character who's flabbergasted that he was out-fought by a girl is not.

I'm not talking about players using their character as an excuse to be misogynist to other players. I'm talking about playing a character that behaves in a sexist manner toward other characters in-game. Such a character might reasonably lead to the character using an epithet, whether a real one or something that only exists in-game, in reference to the target of his or her bigotry. Similar things can happen with bigotry towards a race (or species), social class, nationality, religion, and so on.

Can a PC only be a "soft" bigot in PFS, having low expectations of a girl/elf/stablehand/Taldan/Desnan? That would be a shame. It'd ruin some decent roleplaying hooks and chances for rich character development. I'd have to toss at least one character concept related to sexism and more than one related to the other prejudices.

"Don't be a jerk" is the rule in question.

If you're pissing off the other players with your roleplaying, you're being a jerk. When it comes to sexism or racism especially, tread carefully. Real people can be hurt in your pursuit of rich character development. Especially with people you don't know well, like at many PFS tables err on the side of caution.

It would be perfectly reasonable and in character for many adventurers to swear like the proverbial sailor. If you're playing at a table with kids, you should avoid that, regardless of how your character would really talk. Even without kids, if other people are bothered by it, tone it down.
It's the same thing, right?


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Kthulhu wrote:
zylphryx wrote:
My counter to that question you quoted would be "Oh, you mean like a person who kills indiscriminately and without reason, without regard to guilt or innocence, without regard to collateral damage or injury, all for the sake of coin?"

Except that's a raving lunatic, not a murderhobo. Those to whom the murderhobo label applies would more accurately be described as a transient vigilante. Transient, because unless the campaign sticks to one small area, they usually don't have a permanent home...they live in inns along their journey, at least on the lucky days when proximity and wealth allow for it. On other days, they end up sleeping under the stars.

They are also vigilantes, for whom extreme violence is a way of life. Let's face it, even if "kill something" isn't the first thing on your list of ways to resolve the problems the GM presents to you, it likely isn't very far down the list, do to the nature of the game.

I suspect my actual response to someone with a Profession(Murderhobo) Day Job after a "Come on, seriously?" would be: "OK, I'm not familiar with that. What do you actually do?" And then decide based on the answer.

I'm not really comfortable with "Profession(Adventurer)" as a day job. It's supposed to be a more reliable, regular thing you do while you're not adventuring. Having it be more adventuring just seems wrong to me.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
blahpers wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Hang on. PFS doesn't allow a PC to be sexist?

You can have a sexist, racist, unwashed jerk of a PC... so long as your RPing of them doesn't cross over into real-world jerkishness. A mysogynistic paladin is fine, so long as the player isn't pissing off the other people at the table with his crass humor. If the players he's playing with aren't being annoyed, he's probably doing it right.

Saying "That stupid <expletive> failed because she's a woman!" is being a jerk. Playing a character who's flabbergasted that he was out-fought by a girl is not.

I'm not talking about players using their character as an excuse to be misogynist to other players. I'm talking about playing a character that behaves in a sexist manner toward other characters in-game. Such a character might reasonably lead to the character using an epithet, whether a real one or something that only exists in-game, in reference to the target of his or her bigotry. Similar things can happen with bigotry towards a race (or species), social class, nationality, religion, and so on.

Can a PC only be a "soft" bigot in PFS, having low expectations of a girl/elf/stablehand/Taldan/Desnan? That would be a shame. It'd ruin some decent roleplaying hooks and chances for rich character development. I'd have to toss at least one character concept related to sexism and more than one related to the other prejudices.

"Don't be a jerk" is the rule in question.

If you're pissing off the other players with your roleplaying, you're being a jerk. When it comes to sexism or racism especially, tread carefully. Real people can be hurt in your pursuit of rich character development. Especially with people you don't know well, like at many PFS tables err on the side of caution.

It would be perfectly reasonable and in character for many adventurers to swear like the proverbial sailor. If you're playing at a table with kids, you should avoid that, regardless of how your...

(adds "not allowed to actually roleplay" to the long list of reasons to avoid PFS like the plague)

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