Profession (Murderhobo)

[MrSin]

fretgod99 wrote:

Sir_Wulf wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, no Profession(Jerk)?

Of course, being a Jerk is specifically against Organized Play rules, no matter how professional one is.

*sadpuppyface*

But I wanted to make an attorney character!

Dual-Cursed Oracle with Legalistic and a curse of your choice, Tongues maybe? Anytime someone rolls something you don't like point and shout OBJECTION! and make them reroll.

Oh! and attorneys take barrister and max bluff of course.

[fretgod99]

MrSin wrote:

fretgod99 wrote:

Sir_Wulf wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, no Profession(Jerk)?

Of course, being a Jerk is specifically against Organized Play rules, no matter how professional one is.

*sadpuppyface*

But I wanted to make an attorney character!

Dual-Cursed Oracle with Legalistic and a curse of your choice, Tongues maybe? Anytime someone rolls something you don't like point and shout OBJECTION! and make them reroll.

Oh! and attorneys take barrister and max bluff of course.

Probably Tiefling, right? Because, you know, pacts with devils and such. Hey, what playable races don't have souls?

Is Legalese a language? Antagonize is a must. Could dip into Sorcerer (Rakshasa) for Silver Tongue.

[Relixander]

Finlanderboy wrote:

Relixander wrote:

stuffs

I agree the GM should be allowed to ban offensive things. Although the name of your day job profession is just a name. Using that name for a bonus is up to the GM. I fully support that.

Now if someone is using the day job to offend people than the GM needs to step up and say something.

Although at the same time I bet we all know someone that will say they are offended by something to give them power when they are not really offended. I can not see a way in which murderhobo is offensive to a real human being. Now if you find someone that has a reason to be offended by that then I would ask the player to name it something else in the presence of that person. I feel this is a much better solution than GM fiat and banning something.

Ofcourse this would apply to any dayjob that is offensive.

Now wrecking the fantasy of someone is also a very silly reason to ban something. Look at the gunslinger suggestion(granted this is something legal). Now you are a shared fantasy. You have robots in the game and a slew of other zany things on golarion. Yet someone that has a day job programming/wiring this robots or androids wrecks your fantasy? The idea of the game is allow people to play their fantasy with your fantasy. If the name of their day job wrecks yours I think this may have to do with the you(as in the person fantasy that is getting wrecked) than the player that brings his innocent fantasy.

In that case when you hear that day job a few times ignore it and move on. There is always a solution that helps all parties.

Because the DM has the ability to make decisions and ban things does not mean you should. FInd a way to make it work. Before you wreck someone elses game. Espcially over something so trivial.

Now if there is a jerk at the table putting somethign offensive to poke at someone that is something different. Someone innocently putting something silly. Well this is were your judgement comes in.

There is a day job vanity...

So in essence you agree, but your fear is of abusive GMs not players. Fair enough, and agreed, my point there would be the GM *should* know better and act better, hopefully those GMs that don't will get filtered out by the players and VOs. That is why we have GMs to make those judgement calls, and is is assumed they will do it to the best of their ability and without prejudice, in the attempt to make the game fun for all.

I agree the first choice should be to simply allow the character to use a different name for the session (this was in my original post), as it would typically get caught on the character review at the start. I also agree that breaking the verisimilitude of the game would be a fairly petty reason to deny the profession, but isn't choosing it in the first place similar in its pettiness (assuming the player had some idea that it would be controversial, and is a (comedic) derogatory term for adventurer)?
Plenty of players are offended at the term as derogatory (even if it has some comedic value, or is rationalized by twisting the meaning of words) to their beloved characters that they have built from the ground up, possibly over years. Look around on these boards and you will find plenty of opposition to it (this thread included, and its not just my posts!)
Slanders and libel are just *words*, a derogatory slur is just a *name*, words/names can be hurtful and offensive, even when cloaked under veil of comedy or fantasy.
Whether MurderHobo *should* be offensive, is a different argument, which already has a thread going (with no consensus yet...). The fact is, it *is* considered to be offensive and/or derogatory by a fair number of players.
It does not appear that this topic will yield a consensus either (which is probably the way it should be), since it has broken down to mainly comedic quips.

Edit: I did forget about the Thieves guild vanity, is there an Assassins guild vanity? (although I was speaking more in general than specifically as a dayjob)

[Murderhobo Union Representative]

Dear ladies and gentlemen of the discourse,

Please cease and desist in the slander, libel, and defamation of those who identify with the murderhobo lifestyle and profession. We, the Golarion Union of Murderhoboes for the Betterment of Others, (referred to hereafter as GUMBO), have been a united society for centuries in our efforts to contribute to society by doing the dirty work that keeps so-called civilized world in good working order. It is with the utmost importance that any and all offensive usage of the phrase "murderhobo" be ceased immediately. This includes, but is not limited to, any and all comparisons of murderhoboes to murderers, sociopaths, degenerates, poor people, "roll-players", "serious gamers", criminals, munchkins, adventurers, Pathfinders, trolls, people who hate cats, people without towels, Paizo staff, Walmart executives, the Mob, puppies, the NSA, the FBI, the FDA, the EPA, the Queen of England, satirists, Anonymous, you the reader, and anything or anyone else. Further violations of this citation or further attacks on the upstanding moral character of the GUMBO membership shall be met with legal action, vagrancy, and a killing spree unlike any the world hath seen. Thank you for your timely cooperation.

With the utmost respect and appreciation,
~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative

[Xaratherus]

^lol, can you go post this in the other discussion about the term? :P

[The Morphling]

MrSin wrote:

fretgod99 wrote:

Sir_Wulf wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, no Profession(Jerk)?

Of course, being a Jerk is specifically against Organized Play rules, no matter how professional one is.

*sadpuppyface*

But I wanted to make an attorney character!

Dual-Cursed Oracle with Legalistic and a curse of your choice, Tongues maybe? Anytime someone rolls something you don't like point and shout OBJECTION! and make them reroll.

Oh! and attorneys take barrister and max bluff of course.

I'm working on a character who does EXACTLY this. He's cursed by the wording of a particularly fiendish contract, and most of his spells are based around contracts.

His murderous command spell involves him holding up a scroll and shouting "BY READING THIS SCROLL YOU HEREBY AGREE TO STAB YOUR COMPANION IN THE FACE."

So they do...

[fretgod99]

The Morphling wrote:

MrSin wrote:

fretgod99 wrote:

Sir_Wulf wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, no Profession(Jerk)?

Of course, being a Jerk is specifically against Organized Play rules, no matter how professional one is.

*sadpuppyface*

But I wanted to make an attorney character!

Dual-Cursed Oracle with Legalistic and a curse of your choice, Tongues maybe? Anytime someone rolls something you don't like point and shout OBJECTION! and make them reroll.

Oh! and attorneys take barrister and max bluff of course.

I'm working on a character who does EXACTLY this. He's cursed by the wording of a particularly fiendish contract, and most of his spells are based around contracts.

His murderous command spell involves him holding up a scroll and shouting "BY READING THIS SCROLL YOU HEREBY AGREE TO STAB YOUR COMPANION IN THE FACE."

So they do...

Seems legit. I should try this defense with some of my clients some time.

"The guy with the scroll made him do it"...

[Kaleb of Joshua]

Sir_Wulf wrote:

Profession (sycophant) ("I'm the Kato Kaelin of Taldor")

"Taldan syncophant" might be the most redundant thing I've ever heard.

[The Beard]

Profession: Genocide Technician

[Vod Canockers]

Profession: Itinerant Assassin

[Patrick Harris @ MU]

So if "murderhobo" is slang for "Pathfinder" could one have Profession (Pathfinder)? What would that entail? "Oh, I'm the guy who wakes people up in the middle of the night on Drandle Dreng's behalf. You didn't think that was him knocking on each door, did you?"

[Bizbag]

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:

So if "murderhobo" is slang for "Pathfinder" could one have Profession (Pathfinder)? What would that entail? "Oh, I'm the guy who wakes people up in the middle of the night on Drandle Dreng's behalf. You didn't think that was him knocking on each door, did you?"

Well, you could have Profession (Valet) for that. Jeeves had the skill maxxed and took Skill Focus in it.

[The Beard]

I imagine one could also have Profession: Homicide Transient

[Ciaran Barnes]

There will come a day, when youth will pass away
What will they say about me?
When the end comes I know there was just a murderhobo
Life goes on without me

[thunderspirit]

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

There will come a day, when youth will pass away

What will they say about me?
When the end comes I know there was just a murderhobo
Life goes on without me

...except for those I murderhobo, that is. ;-)

[BigNorseWolf]

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:

So if "murderhobo" is slang for "Pathfinder" could one have Profession (Pathfinder)? What would that entail? "Oh, I'm the guy who wakes people up in the middle of the night on Drandle Dreng's behalf. You didn't think that was him knocking on each door, did you?"

1) makes dayjob checks

2) come up with insane rationales for why something needs to be done at 4 A.M. on no notice: Dc 15

3) Fill out bail forms dc:20

4) Navigate the entire breadth and width of golarion without incident dc 0

5) Pick a dungeon with monsters hard enough to be challenging without ever running into kobolds as a level 11 or Great wyrm red dragons as a level 2: DC 10.

6) Make a will save not to punch a superior member in the face when they denigrate your abilities, withhold vital information,

7) Decipher a bizarre, rambling message from your faction head . FOR TALDOR! DC 20.

8) Bring background information in the adventure into play: DC 40.

9: Hide the bodies: dc 10

10) Start a fire DC 2

[The Beard]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:

So if "murderhobo" is slang for "Pathfinder" could one have Profession (Pathfinder)? What would that entail? "Oh, I'm the guy who wakes people up in the middle of the night on Drandle Dreng's behalf. You didn't think that was him knocking on each door, did you?"

1) makes dayjob checks

2) come up with insane rationales for why something needs to be done at 4 A.M. on no notice: Dc 15

3) Fill out bail forms dc:20

4) Navigate the entire breadth and width of golarion without incident dc 0

5) Pick a dungeon with monsters hard enough to be challenging without ever running into kobolds as a level 11 or Great wyrm red dragons as a level 2: DC 10.

6) Make a will save not to punch a superior member in the face when they denigrate your abilities, withhold vital information,

7) Decipher a bizarre, rambling message from your faction head . FOR TALDOR! DC 20.

8) Bring background information in the adventure into play: DC 40.

9: Hide the bodies: dc 10

10) Start a fire DC 2

11.) Fetch Drandle Dreng's favorite "herbal supplement" from the sticks without being mugged: DC 5

12.) Use the fire you started before to give Drandle a light. DC 5

13.) Keep a straight face while sending new pathfinders to Sheila Heidmarch for their very first mission: DC 20

14.) Avoid shifting to chaotic evil because you just sent a group of fledgling Pathfinders to Sheila Heidmarch for their very first mission: DC 50

[David_Bross]

My GM recently accused my of lying when I said my Monk who wanted to fight the demons of the worldwound wasn't a murderhobo...

[blackbloodtroll]

Honestly, who would fight to have this as a Profession?

If you are fighting for it, then you have gone from mildly humorous joker, to jerk.

Of course, if you are a DM who flips out, and overacts to seeing it, instead of politely asking them to change it, then you are the jerk.

[Vod Canockers]

Profession: Wandering Monster?

[The Morphling]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Honestly, who would fight to have this as a Profession?

If you are fighting for it, then you have gone from mildly humorous joker, to jerk.

Of course, if you are a DM who flips out, and overacts to seeing it, instead of politely asking them to change it, then you are the jerk.

The vehement negative reactions in this thread have transformed Profession (Murderhobo) from a silly example of custom professions to something I legitimately can't wait to see people react to at a table.

[RainyDayNinja]

The Morphling wrote:

The vehement negative reactions in this thread have transformed Profession (Murderhobo) from a silly example of custom professions to something I legitimately can't wait to see people react to at a table.

So, your reaction to finding out something is incredibly controversial and offensive to some, is to become even more interested in doing it just to watch them react? Yeah, I'm gonna call that out as being a jerk to the people at the table.

[The Beard]

If people at a table have such a strong and vocal negative response to someone's profession having an odd name, I think they're the jerks.

[RainyDayNinja]

The Beard wrote:

If people at a table have such a strong and vocal negative response to someone's profession having an odd name, I think they're the jerks.

I don't think anybody in this thread was taking offense because the word sounded silly.

[Xaratherus]

Gonna say something that may come across as contradictory:

I've stated that I don't see why 'murderhobo' causes such a negative reaction, and I disagree with the premise that it can somehow be harmful to the gaming community. I also disagree with the concept of barring it at a PFS table because the rules in that area of the game don't appear to disallow it.

That said, I wouldn't allow it as a profession in my home games. I don't see it as a 'profession'. I don't see someone in-game setting up a storefront and hanging out a shingle with 'Murderhobo' written on it. It's a joking term for 'Adventurer-for-Hire' - which I would allow. If the person wanted to refer to himself or herself as a 'murderhobo', I wouldn't care - but when appropriate, I'd be calling out, "Okay, make a Profession (Adventurer) check."

[edit]
Okay, so I have to say that above isn't entirely true. I could see a group of Chaotic Neutrals posting out a shingle with the flippant company name of "Murderhobos, Inc." in a more light-hearted game. :P

[The Morphling]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

The Morphling wrote:

The vehement negative reactions in this thread have transformed Profession (Murderhobo) from a silly example of custom professions to something I legitimately can't wait to see people react to at a table.

So, your reaction to finding out something is incredibly controversial and offensive to some, is to become even more interested in doing it just to watch them react? Yeah, I'm gonna call that out as being a jerk to the people at the table.

If others are having that big of a problem with words that are on my character sheet, not theirs, they're the jerks.

Unrelated sidenote: At our tables, "Weapon Focus" is nicknamed "Skill Focus (Murderhobo)."

[Bizbag]

Quote:

If others are having that big of a problem with words that are on my character sheet, not theirs, they're the jerks.

A GM is a jerk for caring about words on your character sheet? When you are intentionally an knowingly choosing words that will cause a reaction?

Saying or choosing inflammatory words with the knowledge and intent of causing disruption is the very definition of trolling. And you admitted in your above post that you want to see people react to it.

[James B. Cline]

Morphling you must stop having fun immediately!

I have ranks in Profession (Fun Police).

I find your fun incredibly controversial and offensive, just like people who wear socks with sandals.

Seriously, is there nothing in this world that we could better use our time on than labeling a silly joke phrase in a fantasy game, meant in jest about fantasy characters who slay monsters, than to demonize them with the same phrases we use about racism, sexism, and genocide?

I don't play PFS and listening to some of this ridiculousness with gm's who can't have fun at the table definitely disinterests me even more. In my home game, profession is used as flavor, not as a reason to browbash other players. I've had kids sit down at my table as well as adults, I tailor the game to my players so they have fun. My job as a DM isn't to equip straight jackets and grimaces to all my players.

[Kthulhu]

From this point forward, all my characters will have max ranks in Profession: Murderhobo.

[The Morphling]

Bizbag wrote:

Quote:

If others are having that big of a problem with words that are on my character sheet, not theirs, they're the jerks.

A GM is a jerk for caring about words on your character sheet? When you are intentionally an knowingly choosing words that will cause a reaction?

Saying or choosing inflammatory words with the knowledge and intent of causing disruption is the very definition of trolling. And you admitted in your above post that you want to see people react to it.

I have precisely zero care for the feelings of people who choose to be offended by something purely for the sake of being offended.

I may be misattributing this quote, but I believe it was Mark Twain who said facetiously, "There is nothing that needs amending quite so much as other peoples' habits."

If seeing a perfectly legal skill on my character sheet makes you so upset that you feel personally offended at the vile actions I have taken, you have far deeper issues to work through than handling a PFS table.

James B. Cline wrote:

Morphling you must stop having fun immediately!

I have ranks in Profession (Fun Police).

I find your fun incredibly controversial and offensive, just like people who wear socks with sandals.

HEY! Socks with sandals is an abomination and you know it!

[blahpers]

There are so many better ways to annoy the other people at your table anyway. Like Perform (vuvuzela) used with all of your bardic performances.

[Murderhobo Union Representative]

Xaratherus wrote:

I could see a group of Chaotic Neutrals posting out a shingle with the flippant company name of "Murderhobos, Inc." in a more light-hearted game. :P

Murderhoboes, Inc. is long-time business associate with the Golarion Union of Murderhoboes for the Betterment of Others, GUMBO. As such, we refer a large number of our job-seeking members to them when there are openings.

RainyDayNinja wrote:

So, your reaction to finding out something is incredibly controversial and offensive to some, is to become even more interested in doing it just to watch them react? Yeah, I'm gonna call that out as being a jerk to the people at the table.

There is a significant difference between expressing a curiosity of seeing the reactions to the name of a profession versus portraying said noble profession in the horribly stereotyped and slanderous fashion that many of the dissenters in this discussion seem to have formulated.

The GUMBO members and I are in agreement that others ought to withhold judging a person until they have gotten an honest look at their personality and behavior in public and private settings. Let us all please be tolerant of one another during this discussion.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Honestly, who would fight to have this as a Profession?

If you are fighting for it, then you have gone from mildly humorous joker, to jerk.

Of course, if you are a DM who flips out, and overacts to seeing it, instead of politely asking them to change it, then you are the jerk.

It is my duty as a GUMBO representative to defend the reputations, names, and livelihoods of our members. Resorting to ad homonym attacks on our character as opposed to respectful, objective discourse is a surer symptom of jerky conduct. That being said, while we respect you and your opinion, and no matter how much we disagree with it, we must stand and speak up to denounce any and all attacks real, implied, or imaginary.

Murderhoboes have families to feed too, let's not deny them the right to their paychecks. Think of the children!

Kthulhu wrote:

From this point forward, all my characters will have max ranks in Profession: Murderhobo.

Please submit your union application(s) as soon as possible, registration for the coming year's union vote closes in 96 hours. It would be unfortunate if you were ineligible to vote on the ballot measures pertaining to pensions, stock holdings, and the next assistant secretary of hooliganism and customer service.

Sincerely yours,

~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative

[The Morphling]

blahpers wrote:

There are so many better ways to annoy the other people at your table anyway. Like Perform (vuvuzela) used with all of your bardic performances.

I feel like this would work better at my LARP game.

[Bizbag]

Quote:

I have precisely zero care for the feelings of people who choose to be offended by something purely for the sake of being offended.

So you have precisely zero care for the feelings of the GM, whose very rules are the ones you agree to play by? Do you go out of your way to offend all your GMs for the sake of doing so?

"Caring what other people think" is actually a virtue, despite what pop culture may tell you.

Quote:

If seeing a perfectly legal skill on my character sheet makes you so upset that you feel personally offended at the vile actions I have taken, you have far deeper issues to work through than handling a PFS table.

I suppose it'd have to be a perfectly legal skill first, wouldn't it? And since it's not on the list of pre-approved professions, you need permission from Guess Who. And given that the specific nonstandard choice you have made borders on outright mockery of those who prefer to take their games a bit more seriously, they are perfectly within their rights to be indignant and refuse you your roll.

This is especially because your defense of the choice involves telling the GM "I can do whatever I want and I'm implying you have mental issues if you don't agree with me."

[Adamantine Dragon]

I find it interesting that the argument that if something offends someone, it should be treated with respect and compassion is all well and good until people think "well, that shouldn't be offensive!" when suddenly its perfectly OK to not only do it, but do it deliberately to offend.

Interesting world we live in.

[The Beard]

Bizbag wrote:

So you have precisely zero care for the feelings of the GM, whose very rules are the ones you agree to play by? Do you go out of your way to offend all your GMs for the sake of doing so?

"Caring what other people think" is actually a virtue, despite what pop culture may tell you.

PFS players don't go from table to table concerned that one GM might outlaw their build, being as GMs in PFS don't have the authority to make a decision like that. You could, however, be asked to leave their table. There are all kinds of rules and guidelines to help govern the behaviors of players and GMs alike, one of which being that GMs are not allowed to refuse a legal option. If, as has been implied by some people earlier in this post, made up professions are PFS legal, then a GM would indeed not have authority to deny it. Obviously every GM will have a different outlook on things, but if it's legal, it's legal.

And honestly? Some people are just too easily offended. Nobody would get anywhere if they always walked on eggshells for the sake of those with particularly thin skin. The game is meant to be fun, and it won't be fun if you're constantly terrified of offending the guy with no sense of humor. There is a big difference between TRYING to offend people and writing Profession: Murderhobo on a sheet. If someone gets offended by two words and some punctuation, whose fault is that?

[Kthulhu]

Murderhobo Union Representative wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

From this point forward, all my characters will have max ranks in Profession: Murderhobo.

Please submit your union application(s) as soon as possible, registration for the coming year's union vote closes in 96 hours. It would be unfortunate if you were ineligible to vote on the ballot measures pertaining to pensions, stock holdings, and the next assistant secretary of hooliganism and customer service.

Bah! No unions for me. I'm going to be a ROGUE Murderhobo.

[Bizbag]

The Beard wrote:

If, as has been implied by some people earlier in this post, made up professions are PFS legal, then a GM would indeed not have authority to deny it. Obviously every GM will have a different outlook on things, but if it's legal, it's legal.

I've never seen evidence that made up professions are PFS legal. If they are, then I am in the wrong and you can write whatever you want after the colon. As long as they aren't, however, the GM has the power to deny you your check

Quote:

And honestly? Some people are just too easily offended. Nobody would get anywhere if they always walked on eggshells for the sake of those with particularly thin skin. The game is meant to be fun, and it won't be fun if you're constantly terrified of offending the guy with no sense of humor. There is a big difference between TRYING to offend people and writing Profession: Murderhobo on a sheet. If someone gets offended by two words and some punctuation, whose fault is that?

The fault of the person who wrote the two words and some punctuation, if they did it deliberately, knowing it would offend people. There's a balance between the extreme of "be terrified of offending anyone" and "pay no heed to what other people think." It's called, well, society. Part of the social contract of participating in Pathfinder Society is to abstain from attempting the edgier, rules-bending, maybe-yes-maybe-no, or rated-R builds and choices that you might in a home game.

Paizo has attempted to sum up the gist of that contract with their "don't be a jerk" rule; if your answer to an accusation [by your GM, no less] of jerkiness is to say, "No, you're a jerk!", then perhaps you should consider swallowing your pride and just accepting that PFS doesn't have the wide range of options the basic rules promise.

[LazarX]

The Beard wrote:

PFS players don't go from table to table concerned that one GM might outlaw their build, being as GMs in PFS don't have the authority to make a decision like that.

Actually, yes we do, if the build isn't legal. We can require a player to correct any illegal parts of a build. We are most certainly empowered AND REQUIRED to enforce the rules and campaign guidelines as written in the Guide to Campaign Play.

Most PFS players don't have to worry about going from table to table because most PFS players aren't being jerks. Pulling off a stunt like this on a GM who doesn't know you, qualifies as jerk behavior.

[Murder Hobo]

With all the Sczarni thugs, pickpockets, and assassins running around Skyreach and the other lodges, I don't see why I should be singled out and persecuted just for trying to practice my chosen profession on my own time.

And you can put that in your GUMBO flyers! Long live shadow lodge!

[Murderhobo Union Representative]

We, the Golarion Union of Murderhoboes for the Betterment of Others, are open for suggestions on a union motto.
The current one has begun to prove a bit too controversial for our GUMBO tastes.

Currently: "Putting the 'fun' in 'offunsive' since Cayden became a god!"

On an unrelated note, in an attempt to improve our societal reputation, we have decided to donate 1000 platinum pieces to the "Society for the Crusade Against Monstrosities Meddling in Everyone's Domiciles". This charity has told us that they help small island micro-nations in the Inner Sea Region defend against the ever encroaching menace of the ocean tides of evil. We are confident that this money will be used for a worthy and noble cause.

~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local Murderhobo Union Representative Doing Extensive Research on Eliminating Riots

EDIT: P.S.

Kthulhu wrote:

Bah! No unions for me. I'm going to be a ROGUE Murderhobo.

That is an acceptable endeavor and well within your prerogative. We wish you the best in your endeavors on the free market and will keep our doors open to you should you eventually change your mind.

EDIT^2: P.P.S.

Murder Hobo wrote:

With all the Sczarni thugs, pickpockets, and assassins running around Skyreach and the other lodges, I don't see why I should be singled out and persecuted just for trying to practice my chosen profession on my own time.

And you can put that in your GUMBO flyers! Long live shadow lodge!

We shall do so. The Shadow Lodge was a great ally of ours, we will do anything in our power to aid them in these dark times.

[Jacob Saltband]

Justifiable-homicide explorer

[zylphryx]

The Beard wrote:

PFS players don't go from table to table concerned that one GM might outlaw their build, being as GMs in PFS don't have the authority to make a decision like that.

GMs do, however, have the authority to disallow things not spelled out in the rules, especially those things which could cause offense. As the term has clearly shown it can cause offense within this thread, this has given any GM a solid foundation for disallowing its use.

The Beard wrote:

You could, however, be asked to leave their table. There are all kinds of rules and guidelines to help govern the behaviors of players and GMs alike, one of which being that GMs are not allowed to refuse a legal option. If, as has been implied by some people earlier in this post, made up professions are PFS legal, then a GM would indeed not have authority to deny it. Obviously every GM will have a different outlook on things, but if it's legal, it's legal.

Profession (stalker) is not specifically listed as a non valid choice, should that be allowed? Sure, it could be a description of a legitimate hunter that uses stealth to sneak up on their prey so they can deliver it to the market to raise revenue for their day job. Do you think folks who take offense at the profession are being ridiculous in their stance?

Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done.

If there is a good chance that someone at the table will take offense, then to follow through with the course of action anyway is a violation of Wheaton's Law. PFS management has many more important things to do than to spend time on making an official ruling on this when it should be a matter of common sense.

The Beard wrote:

And honestly? Some people are just too easily offended. Nobody would get anywhere if they always walked on eggshells for the sake of those with particularly thin skin. The game is meant to be fun, and it won't be fun if you're constantly terrified of offending the guy with no sense of humor. There is a big difference between TRYING to offend people and writing Profession: Murderhobo on a sheet. If someone gets offended by two words and some punctuation, whose fault is that?

Um, you did read what The Morphling said, right?

The Morphlin wrote:

The vehement negative reactions in this thread have transformed Profession (Murderhobo) from a silly example of custom professions to something I legitimately can't wait to see people react to at a table.

that sure sounds like someone TRYING to offend people ...

As to someone "getting offended at two words and some punctuation", you sure as hell have no clue as to the power of words. If those "two words and punctuation" were racial epitaphs, would you hold the same position? I'm not saying racism and the term "murderhobo" are on the same level of offense (or even anywhere near one another), but at this point you are arguing absolutes, which does little to be constructive. When one argues absolutes, extreme examples can show how ridiculous the absolute stance really is.

The bottom line is that some folks will be offended, and some will be strongly offended by the term "murderhobo". As such, it would seem the compassionate/responsible/reasonable thing to do (that also would be the "don't give the PFS organizers more to do than they need to do just because you want to have a go with something that you know will potentially cause offense" thing to do) would be to not use the euphemism and list instead what your definition of the euphemism is (i.e. - "adventurer", "mercenary", etc.).

[James B. Cline]

I just find it questionable that a PFS GM could run an adventure that hosts NPC's who murder, steal, and victimize other NPCs/PCs and then decides that a slang word for adventuring is too edgy and offensive.

Just seems odd, possibly hypocritical.

I'd like to continue the frivolity of silly puns and satire of my favorite hobby in a non-PFS thread. Anyone have a link?

[Pizza Lord]

I wouldn't allow Profession (Murderhobo). This goes beyond whether or not the GM's aunt was murdered by a hobo for the $17 and prescription medication he saw in her purse (which may have only been Estrogen). Sure, it may be his 'issue' so maybe it's all his fault that it sounds stupid.

Basically, I just find the term to be jarring and inappropriate. I also wouldn't allow Profession (PKer) or some other contemporary slang. It provides the wrong atmosphere that I expect at a game table.

Calling your Improved Unarmed Strike feat 'Couture Cultured' or 'UFC FTW!' might be clever, but the second time you brought it up at game I would ask you to change it. It's one of things that's amusing to discuss and possibly picture in your head how it might work, but not really something you want to see happen.

We've all been on the bus and seen that slow old lady walking down the aisle and just wished the bus driver would step on the gas and send her 'Can't-Take-the-First-Empty-Seat-She-Passed' body skidding across the floor. But if it really happened, it would be terrible and also actually slow everything down needlessly, what with the moaning, and broken hips, waiting for the EMTs, and the witness reports.

Also, as Sarcasmancer says, 'murderhobo' is viewed as performing a collection of odd jobs and various tasks that would be considered hiring unskilled labor, or is not considered specific enough as per the Profession description. Just as Profession (Adventurer) is not a specific enough description. Adventurers might pick locks, brew potions, provide first-aid but that's the same as being a locksmith, apothecary, or medic for Profession purposes.

As far not allowing someone to make a profession roll, I think a GM is perfectly within their rights to do so if a profession is out of place or the current situation makes sense. If there are no dogs in town, no one's going to pay you for your Profession (Dogcatcher), assuming the reason there are no dogs isn't because you're a really good dogcatcher. If you're in the middle of the desert and a pail of water is the most water anyone's likely to find in one place, Profession (sailor) will be severely curtailed.

What goes inside the parentheses after Profession is not 'meaningless' and interchangeable. A GM can base a decision off the specific trait that you have put there. That's not a GM 'ignoring' a skill you put on your sheet or 'cheating' you out of your entitled perks, that's a GM taking your choice very seriously and treating you like a mature player.

[zylphryx]

James B. Cline wrote:

I just find it questionable that a PFS GM could run an adventure that hosts NPC's who murder, steal, and victimize other NPCs/PCs and then decides that a slang word for adventuring is too edgy and offensive.

Just seems odd, possibly hypocritical.

I'd like to continue the frivolity of silly puns and satire of my favorite hobby in a non-PFS thread. Anyone have a link?

And that is your right to feel that way. Just as it is the right of the person who is offended by the term to voice their offense.

Bottom line is different people are going to view the use of the term in different ways. If some of those folks could take offense at the term being used, then the GM needs to handle it as they would any other term that could pose offense.

[MrSin]

Vod Canockers wrote:

Profession: Wandering Monster?

Hey, someone has to do it. You'd be shocked how much evil overlords pay you to show up on the random encounter table. 1/20 times you don't even show up!

In other news, not sure if this thread makes me sad or happy. Keeps going back and forth from "Murder Hobos are hilarious here's a joke!" and "How dare you use that offensive term!".

[Death Tourist]

I think I'm going to retrain to profession: offense taker

[MrSin]

zylphryx wrote:

Bottom line is different people are going to view the use of the term in different ways. If some of those folks could take offense at the term being used, then the GM needs to handle it as they would any other term that could pose offense.

No, that's not a good way to handle things I don't think. Then someone who things the term apple is offensive means you can never use apples. I think the phrase is "a test that fails itself" because literally nothing can pass it. Even nothing can't pass it! Someone out there said "Nothing is offensive" once.

[zylphryx]

there's also the middle ground, MrSin. "Use common sense."

If this is a home game PC, or a PFS character that will be used for private games, sure, go for it. Just don't break it out at public games and then get offended when you get denied the use of the skill for your day job roll or get hit with an alignment infraction if the GM warns you that will be the consequence for using the skill.

EDIT: If folks decide not to exercise common sense, then it becomes the job of campaign leadership to step in, treat the entirety of PFS players like little children and have to dictate what should have been common sense in the first place which will result in a loss of work hours that could have been used to, oh I don't know, work on the next scenario, put together some great boons, give some extra value to the game, etc.