Removing Afflictions, Curses, Diseases, etc. from Vampires, Zombies, etc.

[Felgoroth]

So I've recently invented a magical weapon for a Chirurgeon for comical purposes more than anything called the Scalpel of Invasive Surgery with a 1/day ability to remove an affliction, curse, disease, or poison affecting the target of it's attack, it also has a 3/day cure light wounds on the target of the attack ability. Anyway, it got me thinking, what happens if you remove zombie rot from a zombie? Or if you remove vampirism from a vampire? Or something similar to any of these things. I know the curse version of lycanthropy can be removed. I'm just kind of curious as I can't really find any information on this. Is it a DM decision?

[Bizbag]

Vampirism and zombification aren't curses or diseases. Mechanically, there's no way to remove them. They're just a type/template of creature. They are created via supernatural or magical effects, but are not sustained by them; the effects are instantaneous, to use spell logic.

That said, if you want to make curing the undead a part of your game, go for it. It sounds like fun. I would make it a bit more complex than simply casting a level 3 spell, though.

[Felgoroth]

I mean, zombie rot is a disease, however, once the person becomes a zombie it doesn't explain if it can be removed or not. I'm considering making it the same spell only requiring a caster level check based on the targets CR and such. Perhaps 10+ 1/2 targets CR+ the targets Charisma mod. or something along those lines.

[Bizbag]

Felgoroth wrote:

I mean, zombie rot is a disease, however, once the person becomes a zombie it doesn't explain if it can be removed or not. I'm considering making it the same spell only requiring a caster level check based on the targets CR and such. Perhaps 10+ 1/2 targets CR+ the targets Charisma mod. or something along those lines.

The creature has to die first, which, it could be argued, removes the disease. Even if it doesn't, two things may happen. First, undead are immune to disease, so it would be removed at such time as they reanimate. Second, even if the disease remained "active", but could not inflict any damage, being a zombie is not a condition contingent on having the disease - only dying while infected. It's a supernatural effect, so it's magic.

Long story short, in any of these three circumstances I can't see Remove Disease doing anything noteworthy to the zombie.

[Ignipotens]

I would agree with Bizbag, though it does sound interesting to bring zombies and vamps back to their original form.

I look at it like this, a werewolf still maintains its human form and merely transforms to its wolf or hybrid. That means the human side still exists as it was before the curse and can be "saved". In the case of the zombie and vamp nothing remains of the former human, they are a completely different entity, it is a one way street. Again that is just my view of how they are different.

[Felgoroth]

Fair enough, it was more of a curiosity thing than anything else because I had never heard of it before and was interested in whether or not some sort of system existed. I may use this in a campaign in the future in which the souls of those that become zombies go to a place in hell and are tortured by the god of undeath. Then I could use some sort of system like the one I mentioned as a way for priests and priestesses to "save" those that were turned into zombies. I'm still unsure about how vampires and things of that nature would work in a system like that, but that's beside the point.

Thanks for the info. As I said, I was mostly curious. I didn't even think about what Bizbag had mentioned about undead being immune to disease. Which pretty much means what I had said initially is impossible because their disease would have been removed. And then vampires are just created another way entirely.

[Bizbag]

Don't let the RAW stop you from using an idea you think will be fun! It makes a good mystery for the PCs - they know that you *shouldnt* be able to cure a vampire/zombie, but they uncover clues that suggest they can!

If they ask "how is this possible", tell them "good question! How are you going to try to find out?"