Sexist at the table


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Another thread cruising to a lock I see.
No doubt.
Specific quotations about what you speak of usually help. I'm on my phone and scanning posts is inefficient.
Jessica Price wrote:


And it's impressive how people managed to pull this off-topic to a discussion about "but it happens to men too!" and effectively drown out the original conversation, exactly as I pointed out earlier in the thread. Congrats on being Exhibit A for what happens every time we try to talk about making gaming spaces more welcoming to people who aren't straight white men.

Before this quote absolutely NO mention of race or sexual orientation were found in this thread. Her inclusion of it suggests that she assigns those motivations to posters in this thread. Additionally, the activity which she describes the posters engaging in is described to have sexist motivations.

She further cements this accusation by submitting it as evidence of her observation by using the phrase "Exhibit A." Demonstrating that in her opinion ANYONE engaging in discussion that does not relate directly to the OP is a Sexist, Racist, Homophobe.

The Exchange

TheNine wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:

Challenging the canard that feminism = hating men is hardly engaging in the True Scotsman fallacy. And -- while I firmly believe that as along as everything that's going on in a relationship is consensual, which includes being treated in ways that highlight one's gender, it's their business and their business alone -- automatically categorizing being treated in a highly gendered way as being "treated well" is a highly biased way to describe it, basically framing anyone who objects to it as irrational.

And it's impressive how people managed to pull this off-topic to a discussion about "but it happens to men too!" and effectively drown out the original conversation, exactly as I pointed out earlier in the thread. Congrats on being Exhibit A for what happens every time we try to talk about making gaming spaces more welcoming to people who aren't straight white men.

I thought the topic was sexist at the table not Male sexist at the table. I believe their off-topic as you put it discusiion about alleged female gamers harassing a male would be very topic to the original post. Not once was someone's sexuality or race brought into the topic... well until you did.

Exactly, maybe some want it acknowledged that this issue is not as simple as some want to make it. But you know how these things go...


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Matt Thomason wrote:
I think the point, people, is to discuss ways of combating/preventing it rather than debating who is doing it to whom :)

I think the offended party has to be the one to speak up.

There is no one standard of proper behavior. You can say things in a gaming session that would probably get more than a few calls from HR if you said them at work for example.

What determines if something has gone over the line, and how far it has gone over the line, is if it bothers the individuals present. Without knowing for certain that that's happened a lot of people aren't going start a potentially group breaking argument.


MMmkay. I'm gonna step back onto the original topic, and just kind of glaze over the last two pages...

I understand that it's an issue, and I'm not going to say that what he's doing is in any way justified. The issue primarily lies in the fact of whether or not it actually is causing problems for your group. If "Chuck"'s commentary is what led to your female gamers leaving, then it has become a problem, especially if you intend on inviting them back or looking for new female players (I try to keep at least one in my group, to keep us meatheads grounded). If you don't intend on either of those things, and no one really has a problem with it, I honestly wouldn't bother confronting the man. Most people believe what they believe and won't budge about it. If it's a personal issue, it is absolutely your prerogative to ask him to stop, if not at least tone it down a little.

Ultimately, yes, what he is doing and saying are wrong, but outside the realm of your gaming table, even if you tell him to stop odds are he isn't going to change his mind. If you want female players to join, your options are either to pull him aside and ask him to stop, or remove him. If you don't want female players to join, I don't think it's worth the hassle.

//my two cents.


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I get exactly where Jessica is coming from...Pretty much every thread here on gender discrimination/sexism, somewhere usually by the second page, there is a post (usually from the same handful of posters) that basically goes "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEN", which in context comes across as denying there is any problem at all.


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In the immortal words of Ron Burgundy "Boy that escalated quickly".


FlySkyHigh wrote:

MMmkay. I'm gonna step back onto the original topic, and just kind of glaze over the last two pages...

I understand that it's an issue, and I'm not going to say that what he's doing is in any way justified. The issue primarily lies in the fact of whether or not it actually is causing problems for your group. If "Chuck"'s commentary is what led to your female gamers leaving, then it has become a problem, especially if you intend on inviting them back or looking for new female players (I try to keep at least one in my group, to keep us meatheads grounded). If you don't intend on either of those things, and no one really has a problem with it, I honestly wouldn't bother confronting the man. Most people believe what they believe and won't budge about it. If it's a personal issue, it is absolutely your prerogative to ask him to stop, if not at least tone it down a little.

Ultimately, yes, what he is doing and saying are wrong, but outside the realm of your gaming table, even if you tell him to stop odds are he isn't going to change his mind. If you want female players to join, your options are either to pull him aside and ask him to stop, or remove him. If you don't want female players to join, I don't think it's worth the hassle.

//my two cents.

My impression was that the the OP was also uncomfortable. There is also the whole thing that this is Pathfinder Society and being done in a public store setting. It's not a home game

The Exchange

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MMCJawa wrote:
I get exactly where Jessica is coming from...Pretty much every thread here on gender discrimination/sexism, somewhere usually by the second page, there is a post (usually from the same handful of posters) that basically goes "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEN", which in context comes across as denying there is any problem at all.

Mostly because gender discrimination is a two way street and some of us give a damn about that being acknowledged not just "men are evil if they do not behave in the way we demand" and if they are hurt and want their issue addressed too screw them. The knee jerk attack on men for mentioning sexism against them is the height of hypocritical sexism. maybe the topic of GENDER discrimination should be about all genders not the usual evil male steriotype.


MMCJawa wrote:
which in context comes across as denying there is any problem at all.

I think you're misreading that, if not making that interpretation up out of whole cloth.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

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The OP was talking about a sexist male making inappropriate comments about a female.

1) The general topic is "how to deal with a sexist player at your table?"

2) The specific topic is "I have a male player who is sexist toward women, what can I do about this?"

Both of those topics have been sufficiently addressed by Paizo staff and other helpful posters.

Bringing up "sexism can be against men, too!" is irrelevant to both of those topics.

I'm closing the thread because I don't want it to turn into a whirlwind of crap between now and when Paizo staff get back in the office tomorrow. Jessica can unlock it if she feels there is more to discuss.

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