|
So I'm GM for a group that just got together for the first meet and greet type deal last night. It's a group of five and 2 are relatively seasoned Paper and Dice players (old friends of mine) and two are a husband and wife (friends of my girlfriend) who while having played a paper dice before, they've never played Pathfinder or D&D at the level of which we've all agreed to play.
See, normally, at least for my girlfriend and the couple, all they've played is a very watered down version. (no encumbrance, no thirst/starvation, no prep of spells, no need to rest, no CMB or CMD, no reflex will or fort saves, not much other than fumbled through perception checks and watered down combat)
I'm very new to GMing. I've GM'd a couple of the watered down games but after playing through several sessions Kingmaker with a decent intricacy and what not that having a knowledgeable GM added I fell in love with the high RP aspect. So I want that from this group, so do the two vets, and the new guys really want to actually experience everything (as much as they can with 1st levels) Pathfinder has to offer.
So I really would like to try to build something myself, get them used to the different situations that aren't just "kill dat goblin" they can encounter. Any suggestions?
Do you want a pre-existing module, or are you trying to make up your own story?
If you are looking for a pre-existing story, I am sure there are many people here would can give far better advice than I (such as Addem Up already).
If you are looking to write your own story, I can help a little more :)
First, you can come up with a very broad plot ideas:
- [Quest Object] has [gone missing/been stolen/run away/stopped working] and the adventurers need to fix the problem
- [Big Bad] has been causing trouble in a neighboring region, and people fear it will affect your own dear region.
- [Strange Event] has just happened, and it is up to the party to figure out [how/why].
Once you come up with a general overview, try to incorporate as much information from your character's backgrounds into the mix. You can have them come up with Explosive Plot Hooks for a few examples.
So I really would like to try to build something myself, get them used to the different situations that aren't just "kill dat goblin" they can encounter. Any suggestions?
My advice is to keep it as simple as possible. Do not worry about campaign building or anything like that. Also make sure its short.
I would strongly recommend you consider running a Pathfinder Society adventure for your first time. They are designed to be played in 5 hours or less. They are only about 20 pages long.
Let the campaign just grow organically out of the first few adventures you run. Chances are good that they will want to change their characters as they get used to the game. So try not to get too hung up on continuity.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You want an interesting story, not a kill the goblin type thing. You also have noob players. Regardless of setting and desire combat will need to be part of the opening to prime the players for rules to come.
Here's my suggestion: use a random encounter to bring them together w/each other AND a community of NPCs.
Example: the PCs, unbeknownst to one another, are all strolling the market of the homebase city. Suddenly dire rats burst onto the scene! There aren't any guards around and the rats are causing a panic. In the pandemonium all of the PCs individually notice a pair of young girls cornered by some rats; one is pinned under an overturned cart while the older of the two valiantly stands guard against the monsters with a stick. A sudden scream rips from the din: "My babies! Please! Someone save my little girls!"
Its go time. If the PCs do not act now these poor kids will die. Hopefully this spurs them to action. A fight ensues during which a notable local hero finally arrives to take care of some rats on the far side of the market. But its the PCs who step up, save the sisters and get the acollades today.
Now, here's where the game really takes off. You have all sorts of NPCs on site for the characters to interact with. There's the local hero and the mom of the two girls. They'll want to congratulate the PCs and reward them in some way. But off to one side the party also notices a shifty gentleman and an adolescent girl; the shifty man has a live dire rat in a cage which he's apparently selling to a third person in the shadows.
The party can confront them if they'd like. The man and teenager are a ratcatcher and his niece. The ratcatcher is a bit of a reprobate and his niece is oddly quiet but they are not in fact the instigators. Their conspirator is a local business owner buying live rats for experimentation - something ilicit in the city.
All of these NPCs now become providers of plot hooks. The ratcatcher says he can do some digging and find out why the rats attacked but in the meantime he's got a lead on an abandoned cache of loot in the collapsed foundations of an old building. He knows the way in through the sewers but there's a monster.
The mom of the saved girls is a barmaid and knows a lot of tavern gossip. She's also however certain that a family heirloom of her late husband's has been stolen by a city official. He'll give it up to her if he's intimidated enough to do so, but getting in to see him requires either brawn or skills, neither of which she has. The local hero in the meantime has a lead on a ruin outside of town that needs exploring but, before he sends the party there he'll want a test of their skills. He instead asks them to track down some rare healing herb in the forest; it's bulb is very pungent and attracts vicious goats that are agressive and territorial. The PCs will have to use skills and powers to resolve this test.
The point is: you use this opening session to display and immerse your players in your setting. You give them a lot of little things to do instead of one big thing. Then, in the background, you have some larger plotlines brewing that may or may not tie to one another. There's corruption in a city official's office and how did the barmaid's husband die? There's also the strange rat attack from nowhere and why doesn't the ratcatcher's niece say much? Finally there's this ruin outside of town.
Is this kind of what you're looking for?
|
|
I would strongly recommend you consider running a Pathfinder Society adventure for your first time. They are designed to be played in 5 hours or less. They are only about 20 pages long.
I really appreciate all the responses ^_^. I'm probably being a bit vague and that's stemming from not really knowing the characters yet. Btw we're going to be using just core rules.
What I'm hoping for is kind of an introductory dungeon. Almost like a "tutorial mode" where they'll encounter a little bit of everything and nothing too super dangerous. I want to hopefully build something that gets them thinking about what their characters can and can't do and how to use those strengths and maneuver around the weaknesses beyond just combat. Are there any PS books that could do that job?
Having my two buddies about should help that. They're the two that taught me as much as I know (which admittedly is fairly limited).
Weenks, in that case, checking out the module Addemup posted might be what you are looking for :)
|
|
I just picked it up and it looks pretty darn neat ^_^.
I do have a couple other questions regarding time keeping.
How do you guys do it? The GM that I played through Kingmaker with just kind of flew by the seat of his pants with it. Which, while he was fair and hours didn't seem like seconds, still sometimes was a bit abrupt. Is there a better way to keep track of game-time versus real time?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Role driven stories are about eliciting an emotional response and fostering a norm where the player can voice that emotion through their character medium. When this happens your game takes on an incredible quality but unfortunately, it's not a switch you can just flip. As GM you have to foster the climate for it. Here's how:
1. Establish expectation - "dear players, please role-play"
2. Redefine success - "big XP for RP, minor XP for killing"
3. Create an organic story framework (not a linear campaign). See below.
4. Foster extreme emotion in your players (hate, betrayal, love, etc.)
5. Smart villains (just as smart as the players)
6. Social combat (bluff, diplomacy, etc are key skills, not just flavor)
Story Frameworks :
A story framework has two elements, a premise and a problem/opportunity with no pre-defined or linear path to address it. It often uses the "writing process" (e.g., story arcs, character threads, rising action, climax and falling action) to establish a rough outline for the tale but chiefly relies on the character's action to generate plot, conflict and resolution.
Example:
The players inherit the deed and title to a prominent mercenary company after all its soldiers (the player's distant and direct relatives) are mysteriously ambushed and wiped out (the premise). Things go good for awhile (1-2 sessions) until a profitable chain of brothels owned by the company suddenly begins failing and the characters become quickly encumbered in serious debt (the problem). As GM deliberately do not establish a goal to save the business, find their family's murderers, or go adventuring to avoid debtor's prison. Just set the stage and get out of the way.
Jump Start Trick
Here's a trick that bolsters role-playing. At the beginning of your game give everyone 2 skills of their choice not normally accessible to their class, and another new class skill every 5 levels. Then, start everyone's HPs at max HD + CON but only add 1 or 2 HP per level + CON bonus thereafter. Make sure you use the same rule for the bad guys. This has the effect of making combat realistically lethal (less hit points for everyone) while unlocking the necessary skills to tackle problems in new ways (even for stereotypical fighters and wizards).
About Timekeeping:
I am very bad at keeping time. You can always break all their movement into six second periods of course, but when it comes to how long people are talking/standing around etc., maybe just keep a stopwatch.
One of the ways I tend to do this is to first come up with a plot that I want to play through, or create a villain that I find particularly enduring.
Now, set this villain up in a tragedy where he gets to the very end, but the difference between this being a true tragedy where he loses everything and an inverted tragedy where he succeeds in his goal is if the PCs succeed in stopping him.
Remember that many of the best stories out there are fights, arguments, two or more "sides" clashing over something. This fight is the source of drama, and supporting characters that ally to some extent with one or the other, or both are always great characters to increase tension.
Remember: TENSION. Your story needs tension, failure needs consequences, and, while you shouldn't show all your cards at the beginning, the villain should be at least known about in some vague way.
In LOTR--lets go with the movies since more people have seen them--Sauron is more or less this big suit of armor that changes into an eye that can see pretty much EVERYTHING. If someone is using his ring he can see them directly and knows their position immediately.
So, let me ask you, what does Sauron's face look like? What is the color of his hair? What is the color of his eyes?
What you are going to find is that it doesn't matter. His Actions are what are important, and not his appearance.
The fact that he knows exactly where the Ring is when it is used, and can speak to his wraiths to go and get it when he knows where it is means that the party--the fellowship--is forever under the tension of the ring wraiths just popping out of nowhere and attacking them. This is downplayed after the story gets going, but this doesn't stop the tension from being there due to there now being ARMIES hunting the carriers of the ring.
This boils down to "big bad sometimes knows where the party is, and big bad reacts accordingly."
How this translates in game terms is whenever Big Bad knows where the party is he sends an epic encounter their way. He prepares. But--first he has to care about them. You have to answer why he wants the party, and NO "For the Evuls" is not a good enough answer because it wont hold any water even to your players.
You can do it.
|
There are few things PAIZO better for beginners than Hollow's Last Hope. I think it was a free module, but I'm not sure.
As for your group - it sounds like everyone is easy going. Each week, just introduce them, slowly, to the game as gameplay necessitates it. For example, next week, if the enemy casts spells, introduce them to a reflex saving throw, a concentration check, or how to move and attack in a round.
Take it easy, have fun.
Call out to us for help.
Just remember, you (and they) already know how to play.
You've all been playing since you were children.
Regards,
Pax
Crypt of the Everflame was actually written as an introductory dungeon. It's longer than Master of the Fallen Fortress, but I find it much more interesting. (Just my opinion.) As the first module produced for the Pathfinder ruleset, it includes most of the basic mechanics of the game.
Hollow's Last Hope, as Pax Veritas suggests, is a fantastic adventure as well (also better than Master of the Fallen Fortress, imo), but it's written for the 3.5 ruleset and might cause some confusion if you're not prepared to convert it (i.e., asking for Spot checks instead of Perception). It is, however, free.
Crypt of the Everflame was actually written as an introductory dungeon. It's longer than Master of the Fallen Fortress, but I find it much more interesting. (Just my opinion.) As the first module produced for the Pathfinder ruleset, it includes most of the basic mechanics of the game.
Hollow's Last Hope is a fantastic adventure as well (also better than Master of the Fallen Fortress, imo), but it's written for the 3.5 ruleset and might cause some confusion if you're not prepared to convert it (i.e., asking for Spot checks instead of Perception). It's more overland adventure than dungeon, iirc. It is, however, free.
My group died constantly through the Crypt of Everflame, and that was with more PCs than the module was built for.
However, they didn't have the Core Four (Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard) so that might have hurt them a lot.My advice is to go ahead and run CoEF but send some sort of unseen ally who can cast Raise Dead on the heroes in the event that they fall in battle.
The problem with Crypt of the Everflame is the built-in timer: Makes the players feel like they have to keep pushing forward to rescue the hostage instead of stopping to rest like sane people. (Hollow's Last Hope actually has the same trope of racing against the clock or innocent people will die.)
There are some difficult encounters in there for 1st/2nd-level PCs with nowhere to resupply. I toned down the
Make sure to ask the players what they want. I gave my players a survey before we started playing. It helped me to know what they wanted in a game and what they didn't. Some of their responses surprised me, and I adjusted the game to meet their preferences.
The one shot adventure is a good idea. Especially starting out this can take a lot of the pressure off of you to create everything. Then ask them what they liked and what they didn't.
I see many GM "problem" posts here that boil down to the GM wanting to run one type of game, and the players wanting to play another. Having shared goals and expectations is key to everyone's enjoyment.
Some people enjoy the immersion aspects of the game (tracking food, encumberance, sleep), and others want to avoid bookkeeping.
Some want really serious role-playing, and others are goofy and bounce between in character and out of character frequently.
Some want to have richly detailed histories and character development, others don't bother to name characters and just want to hack monsters.
Clarify expectations (yours and theirs)at the beginning and revisit them occasionally. This will serve you well!
|
|
So here's where we are now. (I think we're going to run a slightly modified MotFF)
The husband and wife are playing Drow Ranger, Elf Sorceress respectively.
My girlfriend is playing a Half-Orc Cleric (kind of a face smasher with some support)
We have a mountain (Human Fighter--one of the vets)
And the last guy (the other vet) has yet to roll but he's deciding between Half-Orc Barbarian or some type of Rogue (maybe a Ninja).
My big issue with any of this is that I've always just played core classes/races and I really don't know much about anything other than that. The husband was absolutely adamant about being a drow (and Neutral good), and I guess I'm okay with that but I told him that he has to be able to justify his back story (I'm afraid he just wants to be because Drizzt is "cool").
So my next question I suppose is if the one guy rolls a Ninja, and I let the other guy stay a Drow, will it make anyone seem under powered? After looking over the character sheets if anything the Drow Ranger seems to be a bit less impressive than the rest.
What's your guys opinions on just letting them roll what they want and kind of learning as we go? The big reason I would personally allow any of that considering our average level of ignorance to expanded content is as a "trial by fire" approach. Force us to learn, so to speak.
What do you guys think? Also, I am so appreciative of the help, the community on these forums seems pretty fantastic.
Check out John Four's 5 room dungeons (don't have the link handy but you can google it). If you want to make your OWN intro dungeon they're a great formula for a tidy little adventure.
Room 2/obstacle or RP: this is essentially a skill-based challenge for the PCs. Perhaps they have have to negotiate with a kidnapper or they have to disarm a trap.
Room 3/setback: the goal is close, but you need to just get past this one last roadblock. This is usually a combat to drain some more resources from the party but might also be something as simple as they see the treasure room and then the floor drops.
Room 4/BBEG: here's where they finally come in direct conflict with the main protagonist of the adventure. They fight the dragon, disarm the warlord, outsmart the sorceress.
Room 5/reward or reveal: the final "room" represents the reward for the PCs hard work and might be simple treasure or perhaps some secret knowledge they didn't previously have. Also a chance for a "switcheroo" like the main villain wasn't the real villain after all.
So here's an example for APL 1:
Background/Setup: in the kobold language "Meiger" is synonomous with boss. Meiger Vaugg however is not some simple-minded boss. He is a wizard par-excellence as well as an avid trap builder. Meiger Vaugg also has a secret - he's been skimming off the top.
Going toe-to-toe with the Meiger at this point in your careers would be suicide. However you've learned of a way to hurt him and get rich in the process. The wicked old kobold scroll-slinger has been housing his ill-gotten gains in a modest vault buried under a nearby hill. The hill is marked with a massive, dead tree and your informant, the kobold courtesan Ozula, claims that there is a secret entrance through it's bole.
Room 1: The Bole of the Oak/CR 1
The shadowed recesses of the great old oak are vast and gnarled. The earthen floor is littered with detritus from the canopy. The tree is so large that this chamber is nearly the size of a 1 room cottage; in the depths the shadows are restless.
- monsters: x4 kobold warrior 1
- treasure: combat gear; 30 GP in mixed coin
Room 2: Secret Door/CR 1
The ruckus of the melee has scattered the debris cast upon the floor here revealing a stone slab in the floor. Though the device has a seam indicating it is a portal of some kind there is no obvious hinge, lock, or even handle. Testing the weight of the stone it is highly unlikely even all four kobolds working in tandem could have pried it loose.
- the real "secret door" is a chain and sticky pannel recessed into the roof of the bole. This device needs to be lowered, affixed to the slab, then raised again. The kobolds do this from the outside of the tree and skills can be employed to track the kobolds' movements around the area; otherwise the party will need brute force (may result in some Fatigue at the GM's discretion).
Room 3: Spiraling Down/CR 1
A spiraling stairwell 2 persons wide descends into the darkened depths below. From what Ozula told you at the other end of this you will find the vault...and it's guardian!
- Monsters: x2 kobold warrior 1
- Trap: halfway down a bag of sneezing powder is suspended over a trick step. The kobolds wait for this trap to trigger then burst out of a pair of hidden alcoves to use the trap's effect to their advantage
- Treasure: combat gear
Room 4: The "Dragon"/CR 2
You arrive in an open hall roughly 30' wide and so tall your light does not illuminate the vaulted ceiling above. Pillars butress the roof; they are ornamented with coiling draconic figures.
- Monster: a tatzylwyrm camoflauges itself among the dragon iconography. It melts out of the pillars and coils around a PC attempting to crush them to death; it fights to the death
Room 5: Treasure and escape/CR 1
Finally making it to the far end of the hall your light refelects off piles of loose coins. In one corner a chest lies open half-full of even more loot. An alcove nearby is draped with a necklace and a handful of polished crystals and stone beads.
- Trap: once the PCs load up with the treasure and begin making their way back up the stairway, the second trap here triggers. Their increased weight causes a section of stairs to collapse into water below. The PCs take no damage, but if they want to keep their own gear and the treasure they'll need to find a way to swim AND get back onto the stairwell, or else they will drown in a the 30' deep pool