Looking for advice for a first time run of Rise


Rise of the Runelords


I've never ran a game before and I'll be running it for a group of 3 - 5 first time players of pathfinder/d&d style systems.

I'm not sure how much content to plan for a first sssion. I planned on borrowing some of the swallowtail festival events and games that people provided as a resource on here, and perhaps the first two or three goblin fights...not sure if that'd be enough to cover 1 session or if thats not enough/too much.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


First of all, I'd recommend that you read the entire AP before you start running it. I find it very helpful to know where you'll be going before you start.

Second, I'd recommend that you do as much as you can to make Sandpoint really come alive and become a place that the players care about and want to return to. A great way to do that is to try your best to get your players to really connect with two or three Sandpoint NPCs. (In my game, those were Ameiko, Sheriff Hemlock, and Hannah Velerin the village healer.)

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
GentlePaul wrote:

I've never ran a game before and I'll be running it for a group of 3 - 5 first time players of pathfinder/d&d style systems.

I'm not sure how much content to plan for a first sssion. I planned on borrowing some of the swallowtail festival events and games that people provided as a resource on here, and perhaps the first two or three goblin fights...not sure if that'd be enough to cover 1 session or if thats not enough/too much.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

If you're a first-time GM with first-time players, I'd recommend starting with a smaller adventure just to get everyone familiar with the game and work out a few of the initial "we're all new at this" bumps.

Rise of the Rune Lords is an awesome campaign, but it takes a long time (maybe years) to play through and first-time players might benefit from something shorter. It would give you a chance to get used to sitting in the GM chair (no small task) and you're players a chance to get used to playing the game.

For a shorter starting adventure, try running Crypt of the Everflame (which is sort of geared towards new players/GMs) or The Dragon's Demand. Once you finish with either of those, start RotRL with new characters.

Also, be sure to read RotRL in its entirety before running it.

Happy gaming!

-Skeld


I'd also suggest running a module instead rather than this AP. For a first-time GM it can be overwhelming!

That said, if you do run it? Note cards! Take note cards and write up information for the enemies, including their abilities and tactics. Plot out possible tactics for them to use. Highlight their defenses and special abilities. I'm a 20+ year GM and I still forget stuff and miss stuff. It's easy not to use a villain to his or her fullest.

Also, don't be afraid to fudge die rolls. If a natural 20 would possibly result in the death of a player? Have it not confirm. After all, what's more important is the players having fun. Losing a character you worked for over an hour on to design isn't exactly fun to most people.


Tangent101 wrote:


Also, don't be afraid to fudge die rolls. If a natural 20 would possibly result in the death of a player? Have it not confirm. After all, what's more important is the players having fun. Losing a character you worked for over an hour on to design isn't exactly fun to most people.

Well, this depends on the players. Some players prefer story over dice rolls, while others feel "cheated" if the DM saves them from bad dice.


Thanks for the pointers! Will get to reading through it's entirety.
I appreciate the tip about note cards, that sounds really handy!

Any pointers on how to make sandpoint come alive? Any advice on how to help make npcs "pop"?

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kalshane wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:


Also, don't be afraid to fudge die rolls. If a natural 20 would possibly result in the death of a player? Have it not confirm. After all, what's more important is the players having fun. Losing a character you worked for over an hour on to design isn't exactly fun to most people.

Well, this depends on the players. Some players prefer story over dice rolls, while others feel "cheated" if the DM saves them from bad dice.

That's kind of the question, isn't it? With a new GM and new players they don't really know what their style is yet. I would be careful with new players and give them a chance to explore the game before bringing the axe down on them.

-Skeld


I will echo what the others have said about trying a module first.

However, to answer your questions:

1. For a new group, that is probably enough to get you through the first session. Its possible you'll fly through the encounters with no speed bumps and be done early, but then that's where the next point about making Sandpoint come alive comes into play. You can always fill empty time with roleplay, etc.

On a side note, I tend to think that its hard to prepare too much provided that you sufficiently prepare everything. In other words, you need more than just stat blocks for encounters. You need to know how the villains will react, how the npcs will react, etc. Keep in mind though, I'm always paranoid that we'll go a lot faster than we ever do, so I tend to be over prepared. Regardless, always make sure you go over everything that you might need before the start of each session. So, if you prepare the third fight before the first session but only get through the first two fights, make sure you go over that third fight again before the second session.

2. As for making Sandpoint come alive, this is something that unfortunately takes time to figure out. However, one of the best suggestions I've heard over the years is to make sure you have all your NPC names in front of you (i.e. those who you know will come up like Aldern Foxglove). Additionally, its usually good to have a list of potential NPC names handy, even if they are not already provided. What I do is prepare a list of about 10 - 20 male and female names that are not assigned to anyone in particular. Then when your players decide that they want to seek out the village cobbler, you just pick the next name off the list and say that the cobbler's name is Rufus Caldwell.

The reason for this is that nothing more clearly tells the players that an NPC is unimportant than when you have to stop and think what their name is. Once the players see that you are making it up on the fly, they will say to themselves "Ok, this guy obviously isn't important." The beauty of this system is that maybe as designed, the Village Cobbler really isn't supposed to be important. However, nothing says that you cannot adjust things to make him important should your players take a liking to him. Obviously, the take away here is that when you do use one of those names you need to a) scratch it off your list and b) write down who Rufus Caldwell is. That way, when they go to see the Cobbler 5 sessions later, you remember that his name is Rufus.

2a: The next best thing I can think of is to try to come up with a distinctive one or two sentence description of the NPCs. Maybe the bartender has a peg leg owing to a mishap during his pirate days. Perhaps the sherriff has a long braid of hair that has never been cut. The point is to make the NPCs readily identifiable to your players. Over the course of the campaign, they might meet a hundred or more NPCs. Its going to be hard if not impossible to remember them all. They'll remember the bartender with the peg leg though.

2c: Try to give just a little bit of description to the town that seems to tie things together. With the Swallowtail Festival you are in luck in that its reasonable to think that the whole town is decked out for it. Maybe everyone hangs a common decoration (akin to the Christmas tree frex). Maybe the town paints all the outer doors red owing to some superstition. The problem you need to watch out for though is to not get caught in a monologue. Just a brief description. Frex: "As you walk through town you notice that all the doors to the buildings are painted red." You spent two seconds giving a brief description that hopefully will lead your players to investigate the Mysterious Case of the Uniformly Red Doors. By making these details brief you can keep the players engaged while allowing them to decide what they want to make important.

Finally, I agree with the others that you should read the entire path first. The reason is so that you know who the particularly important characters are. You want to know why Burnt Offerings goes out of its way to make Aldern seem important. Knowing where the path is going will help you plan things for the future. It also can make you prepared in advance should your players decide for some reason to kill Aldern. That will require some adjustment on your part, but better that than telling them No.

Congratulations on taking the GM'ing leap! It can be scary at times but its also extremely rewarding imho.


GentlePaul wrote:

Any pointers on how to make sandpoint come alive? Any advice on how to help make npcs "pop"?

.

Pick a select few - perhaps one per NPC - and really put some work into them. Flesh out their personalities, make them integral to the story somehow, make them the 'go-to' guy for the group when they need (blank).

Ameiko, Hemlock and Zantus should be no-brainers as NPC's the PC's deal with regularly. Tie-in's take place in the opening chapter. Added to that, for us, Shayliss and her father Vinder, Jubrayl Vhiski, Brodert Quink, the horsemaster Hosk and Madam Mahavsti (sp?) were the 'major players' in our campaign with everyone else for the most part being faces in the crowd and even those select few took their time developing.

Trying to throw all of Sandpoint at the PC's will be too much and end up homogenizing all of your encounters. Choose some favorites, make them relevant, and have some fun.


Thanks Story Archer! I was glancing through the sandpoint appendix and was amazed at how many npc's there were. It seemed a bit daunting.

Will try and pick a few faves out and will take a close look at the ones you mentioned.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, the Sandpoint Gazetteer is both exciting and daunting. One of the things I love about the games that were presented for the Swallowtail Festival is that it has an important NPC tied to each of them. That way, you introduce several important and interesting people in a very low-impact way. Daverin Hosk becomes a whole lot more memorable if you see how much he gets off on killing goblins, even little representations of them. The Pixie's Kitten sets up exactly how open-minded (most of) Sandpoint is when you see the girls outside offering body shots to people to drum up business for the night. And if they find out that the dragon races are rigged, they might get noticed by Jubrayl Vhiski.

When I ran it, I found that I had enough time to have everyone experience the full Festival experience, and the entirety of the goblin raid that first night. Of course, that's with six experienced players, and while I don't like self-aggrandizement, I'm got a bit of experience behind the shield. (Which I don't use.) I'll also suggest running a module before starting the AP to get everyone up to speed on how the game works, but as I'm not as familiar with those, I'll let some other folks that are make suggestions.


I might suggest possibly running We be Goblins as a precurser...its really supposed to be a lead in for Jade Regent but I don't see why things cant be reworked a little. Then again the players would play as goblins so that might not be the best "intro to pc rules" idea...


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It depends on your players, but I found mine to really like roleplaying. And it's the best way to make Sandpoint come alive and to get the PCs to care about the place, which is important for the campaign.

Here's two links that might be useful. The first is all the Sandpoint NPCs in one document, the second is an example of the notes I use for preparing for a session, in this case prep for going down beneath Thistletop. The idea of the notes is to prevent needing to look things up mid-fight.

Sandpoint NPC guide

Session notes


Thanks a mill Yossarian! I saw the npc guide once I think last week and haven't been able to find it again.

Also I really appreciate you sharing your thistletop prep notes. It's really helpful. Will use it as a guide for prepping other parts of the AP.


Wow, Yossarian, that is a really cool and welldone NPC guide to Sandpoint! Im not (yet at least, i might in the future if time and other rpg projects permit) running Rise of the Runelords, but i am GM'ing a large sandbox campaign including lots of homebrew locations and a large homebrew megadungeon close by in hills outside Sandpoint. And also with access from below Sandpoint, and from below the Old Light...and also from some dungeons below the Devils Platter...but i digress... Just want to say: THANKS A LOT for the NPC guide, its very inspirational in its form and content, and i can surely use it in my own Sandpoint-centrered sandbox.


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Having a "NPC cheat sheet" sorted by function (e.g.: Alchemist, Blacksmith, Brewer, etc.) is likely to be just as useful as one sorted by name, and is worth making one. The sheer number of NPCs, buildings, etc. - not all of which are necessarily plot-significant - can be overwhelming for the players, let alone the GM.

How familiar are your players with tabletop roleplaying in general? If not at all, you should definitely make full use of the Swallowtail Festival to help familiarize your players with the concepts of skill checks, attack rolls, saving throws etc. in a low-stress environment. Tempered with this, of course, is the need to keep any spellcasters in the party from using up their limited spells per day before the goblin fight!

I highly recommend, especially for a new group, awarding XP for roleplaying the festival, because doing so encourages roleplay - not to mention that with the time-consuming process that is character creation for a new party unfamiliar with the system, depending on the length of your session it's entirely possible that you may not get to the goblin fights (running RotR with an experienced party who walked in the door with their characters basically finished, I got to about the end of Part One of Book One after a 5-hour session that included 1 hour of pre-game "table talk"). You probably don't want your players leaving without having gotten any XP that first session.

Grand Lodge

Okay, first, start your game with the FREE PDF module "We Be Goblins." Run this module as your VERY FIRST Pathfinder adventure.

First of all, it is short and easy to run. It will give you a great feel for the game and let you know what your strengths and weaknesses are. Second, the players will get to become familiar with the rules of the game without it affecting their long-term play. Third, it fits well into the first adventure anyway... sort of a foreshadowing of sorts.

Okay, Second... or is this the second second... whatever... The Swallowtail Festival is NOT to be overlooked. I believe it is vital to making the locale and personalities of Sandpoint an integral part of the adventure. Have the PCs go through the games, talk to NPCs, try to get them to strike up conversations, have NPCs challenge them to games.

Another part I think is vital at the Festival, and you have to ADD this in, is to introduce Justice Ironbriar (who appears in the second book). Have him be a speaker, have him greet the PCs, just a couple of casual encounters is all. The other thing I had him do, is when Sheriff Hemlock goes to Magnimar for support, I had Ironbriar come back with him. Ironbriar has "special" interests in Sandpoint *See second book– I won't put spoilers in here* He helped organize and coordinate the "law" during the final crisis in my game. It worked VERY well.

I have a 48 page PDF that I used for my game, my complete notes, even with a time line with a calendar (complete with weather and holidays and planned events for the first part of the game). It should be on my Google Drive (I think). Drop me an email at oclark86 AT gmail DOT com and I will send you a link.

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