So, one type of spell I've seen a limited use of is the transmutation "form of X" spells. It's really cool to become a dragon, a giant or an elemental, but those who get those spells cant really make the best of them. So I'm trying to make a build that makes the best of those powers. More specifically, it's an eldritch knight build, that is buildt with a few purposes in mind:
1) Maximize BaB
2) Get level 9 spells
I'll propose a sample build here, start looking for feedback, and see if we can find the ideal way to do this.
Abilities: (25 pts, BEFORE racial bonuses)
str: 16 dex 14 con 14 int 15 wis 12 cha 7
Proposed races: human, half-orc, half-elf, wayang, lashunta (male), anything that doesnt diminish intelligence
Proposed class combos:
1) fighter 1/ wizard (transmuter) 5/ eldritch knight 10/ hellknight enforcer 4
2) fighter 1/ wizard (transmuter) 5/ eldritch knight 10/ spherewalker 4
I'm looking for possible sorcerer builds as well.
Useful feats:
-Power attack & furious focus: str-fighter mainstays
-Arcane armor training (to use armor)
-Craft wondrous items& magic arms & armor: always useful
-SF (transmutation) & tenacious transmutation: no transmutation expert wants to be dispelled.
Here's a proposed build. For the moment, i'm considering race & stat distribution secondary factors, although you can refer to the original stat distribution offered. This uses class combo 1).
Fighter:
1 Power Attack, Furious focus
Wizard:
2
3 Toughness
4
5 Arcane armor training
6 Arcane discovery (fast study)
Eldritch knight:
7 Craft woundrous items, Improved Initiative
8
9 Spell focus (transmutation
Hellkinght enforcer:
10
11 Tenacious transmutation
12
Eldritch knight
13 ?
14
15 ?, ?
16
17 ?
18
19 ?
Hellknight enforcer
20
Total spells levels: 9 (equivalent to a level 18 wizard)
Bab +16 at level 20
I'll be working on making this better. I can see a lot of problems concerning saves, but I'll try to find a solution.
So, what do you guys think? Any ideas?
Thanks to the Spell-like ability FAQ they count for Prestige Class requirements, and thus you no longer really need so many levels of Wizard for Eldritch Knight. Aasimar is easiest, though there are tons of options out there. Skipping 4 Wizard levels gets you going much easier, and by extension making the EK much less painful for most of the early-mid levels.
My Sorcerer version (one of my favorite characters ever) went Sohei 1/Empyreal Sorcerer 1/Eldritch Knight 10, with the later levels left undetermined (as it never got that far). Wisdom adds to AC while polymorphed AND is your casting stat, plus you get all the frontloaded Monk feats and saves. Skills were garbage, but the spells gave enough versatility to still be interesting. Obviously, this is an animal/magical beast/dragon polymorphing build, as if one is going to turn into a Monstrous Humanoid or such you might as well just wear some armor and go Magus or Hellknight Signifier.
Ooh... or Warpriest 1/Empyreal Sorcerer 1/Eldritch Knight/Hellknight Signifier in some combination, maybe even some Mystic Theurge. Idea just came to me, haven't really worked it out, but Warpriests in their current form might be a viable alternative for your first level choice and could lead to an interesting combination.
In other notes... I think you forgot Arcane Strike. You will probably want Arcane Strike if you plan on using any natural attacks, and it is nice for pure manufactured weapon builds too. Quicken Spell should probably be in there somewhere too, as action economy with buffs is one of the toughest parts of the concept. Extend might also be useful, though that will depend heavily on the nature of your adventures, forms, and how your group tracks min/level durations.
Well personally, despite the FAQ, I find that method of qualifying for PrCs cheesy, so I'm making my builds in consequence. Though for PFS it would be pretty damned essential, otherwise you would be useless at low levels.
As for the feat recommendations, there are a number of good ideas. Basically, I've got to choose between arcane strike, arcane armor training or quickened spells; I could have all three, but in the end I would run out of swifts, and I would much rather have the money saving powers of craft wondrous items.
I have to agree with the cheesiness factor myself, so I understand where you're coming from when you say you want to make PrCs the old-fashioned way.
That being said, a build I was contemplating just last night to do something similar was an angel-born aasimar (+2 to STR and Cha, alter self SLA), first level of urban barbarian, rest as Orc bloodline sorcerer. With the racial, morale, and bloodline bonuses to STR, I'm thinking the numbers could get obscene (haven't tried them out, though). Also not sure if courageous can go on an amulet of mighty fists, but that would net another +4 from the barbarian rage.
I'd have to stat the character out to see if the Strength boosts from the bloodline compensate for not going eldritch knight, but the idea of a heavenly character with angel blood dealing with the Orc blood in his family gene pool seems entertaining.
I agree with the need for arcane strike and quicken spell.
I've been working on a level 13 build, and I've got to say, even WITH transmutation spells (the best, IE elemental form III, undead anatomy III, etc) the character just does not hit. And I dont mean damage; I just mean it's to-hit.
Example at level 13:
With items & all, I can maybe get it's strength to +6, with items +9. If I take CWI, I can easily afford an amulet of mighty fists at +3. Maybe add in the cracked pale green prism for another +1. This brings us up to a total of +19.
Add in the transmutation as "huge", you get another +3 from strength, but with -2 from size. Which gives us a +1.
This gives a total of +20 to hit. With a build centered around primary natural attacks, this wouldnt be too bad. Average AC around CR 13 is about 30, so you'll be hitting about 50% of the time.
Without buffage, your secondary attacks will bever hit (unless you take multiattack), and you'll have a hard time to hit reliably.
So how to improve this? AC will generally be reliable (armor+ usual items+ natural armor bonus gives a decent AC), damage will be okay if not exceptional (arcane strike can help) and of course spellcasting will be decent (though of course, no SoD or SoS spells)
Edit: I have tried the "rager" build with a scarred witch doctor, and it is very powerful. However, witches dont have access to many transmutation spells...
Well, at level 14, my urban barbarian Orc bloodline guy will have 20+4(raging)+4(courageous maybe)+3(levels)+4(inherent from bloodline) for a 35 Strength before any enhancement bonuses. Add in +6 for earth elemental and +4 from transformation, you have a 45 Strength and a BAB of +14 (or get a +4 size bonus from monstrous physique and start swinging your huge-sized greatsword with a 43 Strength and the iterative attacks of a 14th-level fighter.
I gotta think you'll eventually hit something...
While I agree this is strong, though I see some issues:
- Courageous gives 1/2 of the enhancement bonus; so let's say you have a +2 furious courageous blade, you can get +2 str while raging
- I dont see how you can get more than +2 inherent, since you need to be at LEAST a 9th level sorcerer with the robe of arcane heritage. Bloodlines dont scales with eldritch knight.
your BaB seems a tad high; with 1 level urban barb, 6 sorcerer (minimum)/6 eldritch knight gives +10 BaB.
If I factor in the strength bonuses, you go up to about +25, which is respectable. Better with enchantments.
It's still undeniably strong, but your going to have some trouble with such high STR: you need high Cha (to cast), as well as con (for desperately needed hp, which i forgot to mention as problematic), and if you dump dex & wis, your saves will be catastrophic.
In the end, I'm not looking for a one-shot character; I'm looking for seone who can survive most issues, and boosting strength without end just leaves you too weak (unfortunately)
Well, there's no eldritch night in this build, and the +14 BAB comes from the transformation spell cast on a 14th level character. Urban barbarian 1/Orc sorcerer 13.
I haven't made this character (just rattling off stacking bonuses from memory...thanks for the bit about courageous only adding half the enhancement bonus...forgot that part) so I can't speak to its one-trick ponyness, though surely a 13th level sorcerer has some play.
Hadnt realized transformation gave you full bab... it does make it a far more viable spells, although the short duration is unpleasant.
As a fanatic for Magi, I still have a severe respect for Eldritch Knights. Especially ones that get into the hard way. Cheers to you, Williamoak.
As for a transmuter, the world of spells is your sandbox. Should prove interesting.
For your late-level feats, I might recommend something to help against Spell Resistance because some monsters' are just high enough to be annoying. Then again, you could just transform into a monster and have your way with them that way.
There's a trait that adds 2 rounds to the duration of transmutation spells you cast on yourself.
Looking through stats I could live with if I tried a character like this, I have:
S16+2, D14, C14, I7, W9, Ch14+2
That makes my earlier estimate now come in at 18+4+2+3+4 for 31 before size and enhancements. Form of the dragon 1 gives a +4 size bonus without a reduction of Dex or the drawbacks that come from actually getting bigger, so now we have a 39 Strength, flight, breath weapon, 3 primary attacks (with Power Attack each doing at least +25 damage and having a to hit of 14+19-3 before other feats or AoMF).
Plus the spellcasting of a 13th level sorcerer for those times when going melee brute is not desired. Mage armour and shield are going to put this guy's AC at at least 20 (24 in the dragon form) before any other feats or magic.
Which magic items stop working when you polymorph? Ring of protection? Bracers of armour?
Yes, sorry, the bracers were supposed to be a separate thought.
Only magic armour and shields stop working, which isn't really an issue here. Rings of protection are still good, anything that gives dodge bonuses still apply, etc.
Amulet of natural armour stacks with the natural armour many polymorph spells grant.
Can't have a natural armour amulet and an AoMF without paying extra, however.
See, one thing that bothers me is how to use transformation in conjunction with polymorph spells. You'd basically need to go sorcerer (for eschew materials) then tranformation after polymorph.
Though I would rather not rely on multiple spells, it's rare that the average combat allows multiple rounds of buffage.
@zenogu: I also quite love the magi (at the moment, it's my favorite class) but there are some things it simply cant do, like access cool high-level transmutation spells. So I'm trying to make a chracter that can use them.
Well, this all is an extreme example, and isn't happening very often.
Of course, polymorph spells last 10 min/level, so I can see a high-level sorcerer already in dragon form, busting through a BBEG's lair with his friends, and for the final fight, uses the transformation spell he'd been saving.
While I can't offer you a full build I noticed a few things that might be helpful.
A wizard can take Eschew Materials as feat. He does not need to take a level in sorcerer.
With the Eldritch Heritage feat chain (Arcane Bloodline) you can add sorcerer/wizard spells to any caster's spell list (for the scarred witch doctor). It costs a lot of feats though.
I like the Aberrant bloodline for longer Form spells and extra reach for touch spells. That's how I'd been able to make that work; you don't try to strike at the high insane armor classes, you just reach for the Touch AC.