I am one of a group of gamers who are investigating the possibility of an running online MMORPG done pen and paper style through VTTs as a profit making venture. We are studying the economics of running such a game to determine if it could be economically viable, and that is what this survey is about - please read on. We are veterans players of MMOs as well as tabletop living games and rpgtonight's experiments in an online living game a few years ago.
Here is a brief description of the concept:
This would be a persistent world, similar to those found in conventional MMOs. One major difference between this world and conventional MMO worlds would be that it is even more persistent than they are. For example, if someone removed an item from a dungeon, it would be gone from the dungeon and no one else would ever find it there. A second major difference is an outgrowth of the first - there would be no repeatable quests. The modules that players went through would effect the world permanently. A bad guy could be killed only once, a treasure stolen only once, etc. A third major difference is that the action in the game - the modules that the players play and GMs run will be determined by a group of paid admins and GMs, who will be playing the game in their own way as representatives of major political entities and other factions (i.e. kingdoms, guilds, at least one big time evil bad guy, etc.), and who will be hiring PCs as mercenaries or followers to advance their causes.
The game would be played online, mostly through a browser based VTT (virtual tabletop), but individual groups could play most modules through their own favorite VTTs or at face to face play sessions, reporting their results to admins. The official game system would probably be a new totally software based system being developed by a third party for use with VTTs, though Pathfinder or D&D are not out of the question.
For now we are investigating a monthly subscription model, with a Kickstarter campaign and a few "insider" investors providing the start-up capital. The beta would be launched in late 2014.
Our goal would be to create opportunities for players to play in at least one game per week, with more being possible for players who want more.
Here is the survey - you can just copy the questions and type your answers after them; you can post them here or email them to penfieldgamer@gmail.com:
1) Would you be interested in playing in such a game as a player if Pathfinder was used as the official game system?
2) Would you be interested in playing in such a game as a player if the aforementioned automated VTT based game system was used (assume that it lets you do what you want to do in an RPG, is pretty much bug free, and is as easy/difficult to learn as a typical RPG system)?
3) If you are interested, and if only one game was available per week, how much would you expect to pay per month to play?
4) How much would you actually be willing or able to pay?
5) If you are interested, and if you could play in as many games as you wanted per week, how much would you expect to pay per month
to play?
6) How much would you be willing or able to pay?
7) How many games would you be like to play in per week?
The following questions relate to interest in becoming a GM or admin. There would be three levels of GMs/admins in the game, with the highest two levels being paid positions:
The first level GMs would run most of the game sessions. These game sessions would consist of both modules supplied by admins and by player or GM instigated explorations of pre-existing dungeons and other sites of interest. The first level GMs would not be paid for their time, but they would get to play for free. GMs would also be allowed to play as PCs most other games. Their PCs would be granted some choice items in echange for their services as GMs. These GMs would not represent any particular political entity, they would just be normal GMs. Level 1 GMs would also have the opportunity to be promoted to level 2 GMs when openings arise.
8) Would you be likely to play as a first level GM under these conditions?
The second level GMs would be expected to run some games, and would have to act a special NPC on occasion, but would spend most of their time playing as a certain political entity or faction. They would be responsible for conceptually devising most of the scenarios that the level 1 GMs run, but not necessarily writing them. Player's success or failure in these scenarios would determine the GM's success or failure in their goals. Second level GMs would be part time (20 hours per week) paid positions. Level 2 GMs would also have the opportunity to be promoted to level 3 GMs when openings arise. Level 2 GMs would be hired as contractors, meaning they would not be employees or receive benefits, would be responsible for payment of their own taxes. etc. We believe that Level 2 GMs could reside outside of the United States without us running afoul of US labor law - for now assume that this is the case. There would be a very limited number of level 2 GMs compared to normal GMs.
9) Would you be likely to play as a level 2 GM if offered the chance?
10) What hourly rate (in USD) would you expect to be paid? (if from another country please convert to USD using any online source).
Each third level GM, a GM/administrator, would represent very high level factions - including a Big Evil bad Guy Who is Trying to Take Over and Enslave the World. When they aren't cooking up plots for their factions, they will be developing modules for the lower level GMs. Third level GMs would be employed full time (40 hours per week). It is likely that they would work as salaried employees, with taxes and social security withheld, and with health benefits. Only a very small number of level 3 GMs would be employed.
11) Would you be likely to become a level 3 GM under these conditions?
12) What hourly rate (in USD) would you expect to be paid?
We will need module designers. People who will have to write most of the modules that the GMs will be running. Most of these will be very simple, things like stealing a key item,ambushing a caravan, defending a fort against bad guys, etc. but some will be more complex. And of course even the simplest scenarios will benefit from embellishment and background. We expect that module designers will be freelancers.
13) If you are an experienced adventure designer, how much do you currently charge for developing a simple one-game-session adventure, OR, how much do you get paid on average from companies who buy your adventures?
14) Same question as 13 for a string of one game session modules constituting a longer adventure?
15) How long does it typically take you to develop a single session game adventure?.
16) We will also need freelance artists as the game is being developed. They are not a part of this survey, but if you are an artist who does freelancing please email us for future reference.
I'd suggest, if you haven't, looking at how many of the successful Neverwinter Nights (Bioware) persistent world servers have run themselves, as basically those are persistent world table top style online games. While rather old now, I believe some still exist, and I think they finally got multiplayer working well enough for NWN2 that some of those are probably around as well.
Good luck. I don't play MMOs so I've nothing to provide for your survey but I wish you every success.
I'd suggest, if you haven't, looking at how many of the successful Neverwinter Nights (Bioware) persistent world servers have run themselves, as basically those are persistent world table top style online games. While rather old now, I believe some still exist, and I think they finally got multiplayer working well enough for NWN2 that some of those are probably around as well.
Good luck. I don't play MMOs so I've nothing to provide for your survey but I wish you every success.
What we want to develop is nothing like Neverwinter Nights or conventional MMOs - what we want to develop is an online game played by small groups of players, with a GM running each game, using tokens on VTT map boards, die rollers, etc. just like any other tabletop game. The closest analogies are living games - like Pathfinder Society, except that in our case every module, quest, or exploration would be unique, with everything that happens permanently effecting the world. And the overall "plot" so to speak, arising out of admins playing against each other at a higher level.
So just something like Paizo's Game Space? 'Cause your description above sounds rather different.
What you describe above sounds a lot more like Neverwinter Nights' multiplayer-with-GM-feature (note I am talking about the 10 years old Bioware NWN here, NOT the recent Neverwinter Online), which is NOT a conventional MMO and instead was meant to simulate playing tabletop style, but with everyone seeing in front of them the actual game world and their avatars (along the die rolls, GM descriptions, etc.). Furthermore, how you describe how the world works sounds exactly like some of their persistent worlds. If you were not aware you could use NWN to play online with a GM tabletop style, I suggest you see what they did to compare to what you want to do.
If neither of my guesses sound right, I'm sorry but I just don't understand what you're trying to achieve.
So just something like Paizo's Game Space? 'Cause your description above sounds rather different.
What you describe above sounds a lot more like Neverwinter Nights' multiplayer-with-GM-feature (note I am talking about the 10 years old Bioware NWN here, NOT the recent Neverwinter Online), which is NOT a conventional MMO and instead was meant to simulate playing tabletop style, but with everyone seeing in front of them the actual game world and their avatars (along the die rolls, GM descriptions, etc.). Furthermore, how you describe how the world works sounds exactly like some of their persistent worlds. If you were not aware you could use NWN to play online with a GM tabletop style, I suggest you see what they did to compare to what you want to do.
If neither of my guesses sound right, I'm sorry but I just don't understand what you're trying to achieve.
The only Neverwinter Nights persistent world games I was aware of were either those made by individual GMs for their own group of players, or some sort of mods where everyone or every group entering the server went through the same campaign, fighting the same monsters, overcoming the same bad guys, etc. I never played in one. If you know of some run differently I would be interested in links - but please send them to my email address - penfieldgamer@gmail.com - I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion of Neverwinter Nights.
What we are trying to achieve is a game where the player has the feel of being inside a big fantasy novel where his or her actions have a permanent and unique effect on the world, as opposed to just going through the same quests or campaigns that everyone else is going through, like in normal MMOs, or tabletop living games.
I am one of a group of gamers who are investigating the possibility of an running online MMORPG done pen and paper style through VTTs as a profit making venture. We are studying the economics of running such a game to determine if it could be economically viable, and that is what this survey is about - please read on. We are veterans players of MMOs as well as tabletop living games and rpgtonight's experiments in an online living game a few years ago.
Your old pal Shady here, from the living game. I sent you an email too.
Anyway, I'll bite. Answers to your questions by number:
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) $5 per month for just 1 game/week
4) $5, maybe a little more, up to $7.50
5) $15 per month for all I can play
6) $15
7) 2 - 3
8) No
9) No
10) N/A
11) Maybe, if I was qualified, and if I didn't have to move.
12) $30K per year to start. Rationale: My current job is entry level crap, about $25k, but it does have potential, so I'd want to move up to something higher paying.
13) - 16) N/A
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1. yes but would also love this in Call of Cthulhu and Traveler
2. Sure
3. 5-10 bucks tops would maybe go higher depending on more availability and quality of gaming.
4. A million? Not sure how to answer this question. Would need to see a demo and experience the product.
5. No more than a typical MMO 15-20 bucks with perhaps a discount for 3-6-12 month subscription.
6. See 5.
7. Depends on flexibility. I work and go to school on top of other hobbies. I could squeeze in a few games if I really enjoyed it.
8. If it was enjoyable and not too difficult sure Id love to.
9. I would but right now I dont have the time for such a commitment.
10. I wouldn't expect much for this maybe $10/hr?
11. Probably not I have a career which would keep me out of level 3.
12. No idea what something like this should pay sorry.
13.N/A
14. N/A
15. Depends on setting and available material. I will say a few hours at least.
16. No artist here sorry.
For what it's worth, I once read a thread in Enworld about getting paid to be a DM. The only person who'd done it for pay got $11/hour from some parks and rec department to teach kids to play D&D one summer.
1. Maybe?
This would make it more palatable than learning a new system. But, I can't see the "persistent everything only happens once" idea lasting more than a month. So, ultimately, I probably wouldn't. I don't think it's likely that anyone has the long-term creative energy, time, or resources, to keep creating original new content for a multinational, MMO-sized game without becoming repetitive or painfully derivative.
......
5. As many games as I want? Dare I presume this removes the "once a quest is completed, it's gone for everyone" limitation?...
Good points. We won't start this if we don't first have answers to such issues. This won't be a theme park MMO. That seems to be what you are thinking of, and constantly generating new content for that would indeed be impossible. This would be more of a sandbox MMO. but not a total sandbox either, more of a directed sandbox, for lack of a better term. There would be no "quests" in the usual sense of the word. Player characters would be mercenary hirelings, like they usually are. The modules that they play in would mostly be missions determined by the higher level GMs and admins who would be representing factions and playing the game against each other, using missions undertaken by PCs to accomplish their ends. As ends are accomplished, or not, the world changes. Coming up with missions for players would be how the higher level GMs and admins play the game, and as such the missions should come naturally. For example: "my intelligence service revealed that the mayor of Bordertown (an NPC) resents the local duke. A diplomatic mission might be able to turn him to our side, but if we fail, we will have to kill him." We don't know at this point how much effort it would take to turn a statement like that into a one or two session adventure - maps and collections of NPCs would be there, but detail and color has to be provided to flesh out the adventure. Whether enough such content can be generated to handle the demands of the game depends a lot on the ratios of higher level paid content creators/admins/GMs, and the non-paid first level GMs and players. How high a ratio we can afford is an economic issue. Below a certain point it won't work.
Of course there would be dungeons and ruins that players could explore, containing wandering monsters and treasure, but these would be secondary diversions important to the main action only as sources of historical artifacts, inscriptions, and scrolls that will be relevant to the game once their meaning is deciphered.