Common Card Feats


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


I just finished up soloing four characters through Burnt Offerings and am trying to figure out the best card feats to select. I realize a lot depends on the characters a group is running and the boons in hand at the end of Thisletop Delve. But,in some cases, it seems like there are obvious options for some characters, such as getting another ally for Lini. Generally, it seems like blessings should be the most sought after choice unless there is a very specific ability that your character can benefit from with another type of boon. I'm interested to hear what other people are going with.

Here is my thoughts for my current solo group:

Lem - Blessing or Item
Lem is the hardest choice because of his role as a utility character. Really anything he can add is useful. For this reason, I'm almost thinking it is best to give him another blessing.

I picked up a Holy Candle in Thisletop Delve, which also has me considering item. I've already got a Cape of Escape and Wand of Force Missiles on him, neither of which I want to drop. I could pass the Holy Candle off to Merisiel. But, she already has great items, and I don't like giving her bury card, since she has little healing and tends to operate on her own.

Lini - Ally
This seems like a no-brainer, since her animal allies are so powerful.

Merisiel - Blessing or Item
I'm leaning toward blessing here to help Merisiel continue her autonomous exploration. She already has two spyglasses, Shelelu Andosana (sp?), and her evade ability, so she tend to only encounter what she wants to encounter. The only trouble I've run into with her is that she tends to be a once-per-turn explorer due to her ratio of blessings. But, extra items are always nice, especially with all the nice loot cards that will be coming up at the end of Skinsaw.

I've also thought about giving her another weapon. She took weapon proficiency as her power feat, so now she runs with a +1 Longbow and the +1 Deathbane Crossbow. I managed to pick up a +1 Returning Throwing Axe in Thisletop and am loath to drop it. But, I kind of feel like she has enough coverage with the two bows.

Seelah - Blessing
Blessings are already quite possibly the most powerful boon type in the game. Seelah's "smite" ability just makes them all the better. Giving her an extra spell would be nice, but I feel that Lini and Lem contribute enough in that area to allow Seelah to focus on maximizing her blessings.


In my solo game (Lem, Sajan, Seelah), Lem got another Spell. Seelah and Sajan both got another Blessing.


Returning throwing axe has served me really well as Merisiel. Since you don't want two weapon cards in your hand, as soon as you draw your longbow you can cycle the throwing axe during your next combat. Of course, I think that provides the same D6 as Merisiel's power, but having the returning throwing axe means you can do both.


Card feats seem to depend also what power feats you have taken. For example, if Seelah takes recharge spell, a 2nd spell is then super useful. If someone takes weapon proficiency, another weapon for those not favored is good.. but I'd say in smaller groups, you don't need as many explore cards, and the higher group size, more blessings. Also holy candle can change this too.


You're right that some of it depends really upon what you get in that last scenario which is a minor gripe of mine with AP2: even in a 6-character game, there are a sum total of 5 allies available.

So, with the 3-character game I'm running now, if I get Holy Light, I'm giving it to Seelah so I'd pick Spell, but otherwise, I'm picking weapon like I did before. You make a good case on picking Blessing, but I keep hating not having a weapon to start the game. In my 6-character game with her, I still struggled with that after going to a 5-card hand so going to 4 weapons (25% of her deck) helped tremendously.

The most obvious one of all is Seoni. You're going to give her that 4th spell, and then you're going to give her that 5th spell at the end of AP2. Why? She becomes darn near immortal (assuming you've gotten those AP1 and AP2 spells) especially with a Staff of Minor Healing, and it is still less that 33% of her deck (5/17) so you should get a good mix of her other cards at the start of the game.

Here's my complete list in my 2 6-character games, for the curious.

Amiri-Ally then Blessing: Since it was a 6-character game, you need extra explores thus those 2 choices. In a smaller party, Item wouldn't be bad either.

Sajan-Blessing then Item: Honestly, Blessings are the obvious choice, but another quibble with AP2 is that you get overloaded with Loot items that have to go somewhere so he got the 2nd Medallion over another Blessing.

Harsk-Ally then Item: Ally is pretty much an automatic first grab since he only has 1 to start with. I'd go with a 3rd one, but again, unless you get lucky with that last scenario, you're choosing between a Basic Ally from the box and a cool Loot Item. He's got the 1st Medallion, the Medusa Mask, and the Snakeskin Tunic.

Valeros-Blessing then Item: Sensing a trend here? Really, he's a pick'em between Blessings, Items, and Allies as 5 weapons really seems like a sweetspot for having a steady supply.

Seoni-Spellx2: Reasons above.

Lem-Spell then Item: As stated by others, you can really pick anything for him. I could even see a case being made for a 2nd weapon if the party was small so he got a couple of amazing ranged weapons.

2nd Party

Seelah-Weapon then Blessing: As you'll see, she didn't need a 2nd spell in this party, but really, you can pick anything for her (other than armor obviously). I'd considered giving her a 5th weapon, but I'd only gotten lousy weapons that last scenario so Blessing it was.

Merisiel-Blessing then Weapon: Honestly, I have no idea why I didn't pick Weapon for the first one because 2 is not enough though I did upgrade her to 6-cards and had 2 awesome weapons (DLC and Heavy Crossbow). You could give her a Weapon, Item, Ally, or Blessing. All are valid choices.

Ezren-Ally then Item: Ah the return of the Items. He's pretty much a choice between those two things though. He doesn't really need any more spells as you're still at almost 50% (8/17) at this point. Ally probably is better since he desperately needs them to explore if you can find them.

Seoni-Spellx2 (only repeat character as I love 6-character parties)

Kyra-Ally then Weapon: Ally or Weapon(or Spell depending on your party) is really your 1st choice as she needs a 3rd(4th) one, or the Ally to help her explore. An Item wouldn't be bad either since she only has 1.

Lini-Item then Spell: Yes, Allies is the obvious choice, but clearly I never got an Animal Ally. That's really the kicker with her because you are risking her if you go even one scenario with a non-animal one in her deck. Plus, she got saddled with the 1st Medallion then I got a 2nd Holy Light in the last scenario so Spell was the obvious choice.


I'm doing a 5 player solo, and when I get the time to finish adventure path one, it's going to be:
Blessing for Valerous,
Spell for Lem,
Blessing for Harsk,
Ally for Ezren, and
either ally or blessing for Merisiel... mostly so that they can explore more. I got luck and got Holy Candle really early, and it has always rolled at least a 4, but even then sometimes I cut it really, really close. So any added allies will be the kind that allow extra explorations. And I can't wait for haste :)

Also, the spell for Lem is because he has Charm Person, which basically turns a spell into an ally, so he's a bit behind on spells. A side note- It was awesome casting Charm Person at The Rusty Dragon Inn, first cast ever, and getting the owner (can't remember her name, but she was crucial to an important roll later, too, I was so lucky!)

When I eventually finish the second part of the adventure path, I will likely get blessings for those that didn't already take blessings, and allies for those that took blessings before (except for Ezren, I may have to take an item or two between him and Lem, depending on what I find). Also, the spell Haste may make me take another spell, because it seems to work a lot like a blessing, when it comes to exploring, anyway.

Good luck, and remember, shuffling the cards adds that element of chance, so sometimes your choice will be in your favor, and sometimes, you'll wish you had chosen the other way. Don't over-think it, and have fun!


I think you're crazy to ever give someone another item slot. 90% of items are way too conditional to be useful. This might change with additional AP's.


Items will get awesome in later APs. Some characters will want all the items that they can keep due to the neat loot.


Sophismata wrote:
I think you're crazy to ever give someone another item slot. 90% of items are way too conditional to be useful. This might change with additional AP's.

Have you gone through AP2? Remember, Loot cards are granted once and then are gone forever if you don't keep them in a character's deck. I'd say we're all going to be taking Item slots for most of our characters all the way through due solely to Loot.


Hey, one of the loot from AP 2 is a weapon, and another is an armor, so it won't all just be items. And I keep some of those situational items to allow people to not get crushed by checks that they would otherwise have no chance to make. Of course, I have increased the hand size for both Merisiel and Valerous (pardon spelling if incorrect, tired). I do agree that a fair share of items aren't that great, but I would kill for a few more copies of Masterwork thieves tools to spread between a few more characters. :). Or a third staff of minor healing, so I could more aggressively discard some cards on some characters.


kysmartman wrote:
Sophismata wrote:
I think you're crazy to ever give someone another item slot. 90% of items are way too conditional to be useful. This might change with additional AP's.
Have you gone through AP2? Remember, Loot cards are granted once and then are gone forever if you don't keep them in a character's deck. I'd say we're all going to be taking Item slots for most of our characters all the way through due solely to Loot.

There are only two loot items in AP2. I would not take either of them in preference to holy candle, thieve's tools, masterwork tools or staff of healing.


In most situations, it's Blessings, blessings, blessings.

I've given Seoni more spells, but actually think Blessings would have been better.

Why? Because I play with 6 characters and time is important. Blessings give you extra explores, give you an extra die in ANY check (sometimes two dice and a recharge) and can be used to help anybody anywhere.

It also increases the chance of finding BotGods in the explorations which are nice because they are auto-acquired.

Once the blessings are all ticked Allies are next up.

Why Allies? Because (of the ones I keep): they can always be used to explore again, can usually be recharged to do something situational and might even come in handy for some other power on the card.

So, as things stand at the end of Skinsaw...

Harsk and Valeros got the Blessing + Ally combo.

Sajan and Seelah both got two Blessing ticks.

Some exceptions: I gave Lem a second weapon at the end of Burnt Offerings because he kept dropping the first one. Since I did that I don't think he's been hit again... ah well, Harsk can just continue to bear the grudge against him for nicking his favourite heavy crossbow.

Seoni has two spell ticks since she can recharge them and Spells can often do interesting things (she carries Augury, Frost Ray, Speed, Glibness and had to take Force Missile at the end of Skinsaw - hope to swap that out for Toxic Cloud, Strength, Augury or Web some time soon).


Markon wrote:
... but I would kill for a few more copies of Masterwork thieves tools to spread between a few more characters....

This reminds me: I've been meaning to ask a question:

Can Masterwork Thieves Tools auto-defeat say Skeleton Horde or any other card that has no check difficulty? I think yes, but this is another situation that could be clarified.


Bidmaron wrote:
Can Masterwork Thieves Tools auto-defeat say Skeleton Horde or any other card that has no check difficulty? I think yes, but this is another situation that could be clarified.

A Check to Defeat of "None" is not the same as a Check to Defeat of 0 or any other number.

You can't use cards such as Masterwork Tools on cards like Skeleton Horde because they don't have a Check to Defeat.


@Bidmaron - @xris is correct. The tools are limited by the "highest check to defeat" of the barriers you want to use them on. If there's no check to defeat then you cannot use the tools.


Thanks, h4ppy. Now how should I have known that without asking on the forums?


h4ppy wrote:
@Bidmaron - @xris is correct. The tools are limited by the "highest check to defeat" of the barriers you want to use them on. If there's no check to defeat then you cannot use the tools.
Bidmaron wrote:
Thanks, h4ppy. Now how should I have known that without asking on the forums?

To answer the question, I would go back to one of the guiding rules that I believe Mike put out: If a card doesn't say it does something, it doesn't do that thing. Masterwork thieves tools only auto-defeats something with a difficulty of 14 or less. As xris put it, a difficulty to defeat of "None" is just different. Masterwork thieves tools doesn't say anything about defeating barriers that don't have a check to defeat, therefore it doesn't defeat barriers that don't have a check to defeat.

On a related side note, I think all the barriers that have "none" for their check to defeat are kinda designed to do something special, and if you encounter it (as in, don't evade it), there is no way to stop that something special from triggering. You might be able to beat that something special, or evade that something special (summoned skeletons, encounters with a falling bell, a chance to get items, whatever), but the game designers don't want people to just be able to stop the something special from happening entirely. Of course, this is just my guess, maybe I'm reading too much into things.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Markon is correct on all points. But even though it's not a problem for Masterwork Tools, it *is* a problem for future boons, so I've added a FAQ entry.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think that the title of the FAQ entry should reference bane rather than boon. Is the defeating a monster reference required for this entry?


Vic Wertz wrote:
Markon is correct on all points. But even though it's not a problem for Masterwork Tools, it *is* a problem for future boons, so I've added a FAQ entry.

I see you've taken the opportunity to tease us with another card as well...

:)

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