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Ah the high level villain problem.
There are various methods available.
The Cornugon is a LE monster, specifically a devil who are based on contracts and the like. Provide the player with research options, maybe Clause 666-666(a) has an abstention clause that gives the holder additional time.
Like the Cornugon shows up, but the player or a friend of the player cites the clause, giving them an abstention time at the cost of having to do something difficult.
Hell, sweeten the pot. Make Abstention clause 666-666(a) Subparagraph J the Redemption clause. Like: If the hero succeeds in difficult but achievable Adventuresome Task A, not only he, but all of the souls of his ancestors are remit to their original possessors.
It gives the Cornugon impetus to be a recurring villain, and it also avoids the hero 'resolving' the situation by just sack beating the guy at level 13.
Someone in the party better max out profession (barrister). :)
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If you're concerned that the Devil won't be tough enough if it turns up when they're higher level you can always buff him with some templates (advanced, etc) to reflect his increased power thanks to generations of souls he possesses. Or let the players become aware of a clause in the contract something like "if the subject and/or his associates, hirelings, friends or family members kill (the devil) then his (the subject) soul is immediately forfeit", this forces the players to come up with some way to trick the devil or trick others into killing him without actively encouraging it, despite the fact they could usually smush him with ease.
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I think OP's concern is principly the latter.
2 years (in game, don't forget the in game, not IRL), until Mr. Cornugon shows up with Hell's Own Collection Agency. He's concerned they might not be able to deal with him by then and having it be TPK by Backstory.
I was just stating that if the 'impossible' happens and they level up fast enough, you don't want to have this interesting plot element disappear under a banishment spell.
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If the fear is a CR16 will wipe them out, make sure that by the time 2 years passes in game they're all 13-14th level, this makes for an epic level encounter which should be truly memorable but survivable. Especially if you want to go to the trouble of letting them research the contract or devil beforehand and find out weaknesses and loopholes which can make the fight easier on them, etc.
Hell, let them find that a Solar or such has opposed the Devil for millenia and after the right rituals, quests and such he is able to be summoned to willingly battle his nemesis at their side.
Devil: I've come for your soul!
PC: Of course, but there *is* someone I'd like you to meet first...
Solar: DIE HELLSPAWN! /SMITESPAM
Devil: ...damnit.
Hello, I just started directing a play with 5th level characters. One of the players said his PC had an ancestral curse. Every time a member of his family is 32 years old, a horned devil (cornugon) comes for his soul (and body!). He is currently 30, so his motivation is clear!
For now they are in their first mission: find a sage able to help them (a mothman). But in the long way, I've to think about the final meeting with the devil. I don't think it can wait until they are level 12-13.
SO any idea?
Sometimes you have to tell players no. As an aside maybe the player does not mind dying, but this is not a feasible in the game.
Rules-lawyer mode off: Many curses in stories have ways to make them end. Maybe that could be a sidequest for the group. 2 years is a long time in game terms. Many AP's have people going from level 1 to 15+ in a matter of 6 months or less.
Thanks everybody.
I think I'll start by make them find the contract. The clausule idea was a good one, but sooner or later they would meet the devil.
I don't like the idea of having players able to snuff a devil. It will be an epic moment.
Also having an angel in the fray could be fun, but only if it isn't a real deus ex machina.
Why hand them the whole basket in one swoop? Start leaving Infernal "love letters" to start. The mysterious note in Infernal script that says "I'm coming for you soon!", or "You will be mine" with a crudely drawn image of the character impaled on a post. Once you drop the "This is the contract, here ya go!" You take away a ton of the drama that goes with ancestral curses. Then it becomes "just another adventure" instead of "Holy crap who is this???" Esp if the letter appears in conjunction with a dream the whole group shares.
Would be funny to build up the Cornugon, leaving all these threats, ominous messages, maybe sending lower level Devils after them every now and again...and then not have the guy show up until they're like 20th level.
"I have come for your soul!"
"Yeah good luck with that." *Full round attack = Dead*
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'Appendix 217a : As reffered in section ... all attacks against the recovery agent by the supplicant (as defined in ...) or his agents( as defined in ) will result in the immediate forfeiture by the supplicant of his soul without any possibility of redemption . At the next death of the supplicant , his soul will be immediately sent to ... by the nearest pharasmin agent'
These is a Cornugon not a stupid demon. The contract has definitely a clause like this
Now it would be more interesting to see how the term 'family' is defined. A quest to have the family name changed by the king could be a solution.
The devil's in the details.
Admittedly, stuff like this can rapidly devolve into Law and Order: Infernal Contracts Unit, with a strangely belligerant form of litigation.
The irony is always that the Courts of Hell are fair, if not honest. That Cornugon probably doesn't want his stuff coming up for litigation (it makes him look bad in front of his bosses) if the heroes have the slightest chance of success. Even if they put a convincing argument up, this means his contract writing skills were weak.
He might try to offer out of court solutions, which of course fall into the category of 'digging hole deeper.'
For funsies too, you don't need to have the cornugon show up immediately. He's got crap to do.
Kolyraut collection agencies anyone?
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If the Cornugon has the freedom to extend the contract, then it seems he has a lot of bargaining power to get the PCs to do various fetch-quests for him. "I'll give you another year, if you go fetch this magic item for me", etc.
Alternatively they could bargain with a powerful force of good to protect them. Try to get the church to offer them sanctuary, but they'll have to demonstrate their worthiness for protection (good basis for lots of adventures).
The other PCs if they grow close, might throw themselves into the deal for a few extra years in order to help save the PC. Perhaps as well an NPC that they rescue or develop a friendship with, offers themselves in the place of the PC. Good scene for tugging on the heartstrings and maybe motivating the PCs to try to rescue their friend from hell.
Also, perhaps in two years time the Cornugon arrives whether they're ready or not. If the player gets taken down, then that's their fault for picking a rather ambitious backstory. You could play it up as something of a greek tragedy. Not all has to end well.
I'd suggest maybe having a bit of a chat with the player about their goals and objectives with the backstory. Are they wanting the opportunity to play a doomed hero? Are they expecting you to save them? Clearly they have some ideas in mind with this backstory so it could be good to see how they want to play it.
Also one final thought. Perhaps rather than dealing with the Cornugon at all, the PCs could find out the original origin of the curse. If it's because of some ancestral crime or sin, then perhaps by setting that crime right they can seek redemption and break the curse.
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It is possible that an ancient ancestor made a deal and extends his own life by taking the remaining time of his descendants. He figures his life is more important than theirs; or his work is important enough.
To break the cycle they have to find said ancestor and kill him, not an easy task when he has been living for several hundred years on borrowed life energy. Turns out he was the crotchety old man who everyone avoids and the children make fun of while he was growing up. Or it was the family butler, doorman or gardener.
The Devil is just the bagman; the real boss is something much bigger.
Sic
If you make this a physical fight you are limited in when it happens. If it happens too early you will overwhelm the characters, if you wait too long it becomes a minor encounter that is no big deal. Instead of a physical conflict it should be something that can only be won by a specific action that the player needs to perform. Look at the origin of the curse and figure out something from there.
Introduce the devil earlier but limit him. He may be forbidden to harm or interfere with the player until the time for the curse to become active. This way he can be part of the campaign without having to worry about the party being slaughtered. Have him work behind the scene manipulating people and events, but forbidden to directly intervene. If he moves before the time specified he breaks the contract and the player is free. This could also give the player a way out by tricking the devil into attacking him too early. This can also work in favor of the devil by having the devil be immune to attacks of the player or his allies.
To remove the curse should require the play achieve a specific goal. This could be finding a specific magic item like the Holy Grail which has the power to remove the curse. It could also be that the player needs to rectify a situation caused by the original contract. For example let’s say the characters ancestor overthrew the royal line and replaced it with his own. He may need to restore the original royal line to break the curse.
This has a lot of potential and could lead in many different ways. It should also be something that is incorporated into the larger campaign.
There is a Hellblazer story were a guy is prosponing his own soulselling point by sacrifising children to a deamon.
Pehaps you can have different options show them self over the 2 years there is to his great day:)
I always get a chuckle at how devils are portrayed as following the letter of a tangible document, when going after the most intangible of concepts - the soul.
You could plan the "right moment", and as soon as the characters reach that point in game, you can enact it - doesn't matter when. All you have to do is recruit the player - when the characters turn to his PC and go, "We thought it was coming when you were 32!", he just says "Sorry... I lied about my age."
I always get a chuckle at how devils are portrayed as following the letter of a tangible document, when going after the most intangible of concepts - the soul.
Well, it's classic folklore.
There are also some good reasons for it. Even today, a lot of people feel that writing is somehow magical (e.g., if it's written down, it must be true, regardless of the type of source cited). There's also the very Christian vibe that souls cannot be stolen, but can only be given willingly. Thus, Satan needs either to barter for souls or to trick people into giving them away.
... and contracts are very good documents for tricking people.
We had something vaguely similar to this happen. We ran into an old knightly order where the leader made a not so well thought out agreement with a devil. He is now immortal but his men are doomed to eternal torment.
Well when trying to help free them it seems our dragon rider has now tied his own soul to their agreement so he'll now has a lean on his soul...
I like the idea of "I'll extend the contact if you do X"
Is gives you some intermediate quest hooks, some roleplaying moments, and gives the players a chance to extract some info from the minions of the cornugon who are showing up to offer the extensions. A annoying imp messenger is always fun to deal with.
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If he dies before the due date, does the devil still get his soul? Otherwise the devil may even keep tabs on him, to prevent his (permanent) death before T=0. Would be funny actually; the kindly priest at the local village giving the party a discount on Raise Dead, then later finding out that the devil actually picked up the tab for him.
Maybe high-level souls are worth more, and the devil has a racket going trying to scare this family into trying to reach sufficient level to escape; but the devil gets them anyway, and they're nice ripe level now. After all, the devil has lots of time to prepare the perfect trap for collection day.
I'm thinking that angels won't randomly intervene. If angels intervened in infernal contracts just because they're on a different side, that would probably lead to war on the planes. Angel intervenes, devil asks a bigger devil to intervene...
By signing a contract, you probably waive the right to angelic rescue. But that doesn't mean the angels like it. They might give advice and indirect assistence with quests to finally put a stop to this curse.
The thing with signing over your soul is that it has to be voluntary, and that's why Heaven doesn't get to intervene. But what right does your ancestor have to sign over your soul? If you manage to drag your ancestor into court, maybe you can contest that? Maybe you can renounce your family ties, and get out of the curse that way?
Maybe there's another devil in hell, concerned about this cornugon getting a nice constant trickle of souls. He might want to help the PC weaken his rival. If some plucky mortal happens to kill his rival, the devil can expand his own personal fiefdom. The PC is the perfect stooge, because he can't kill his rival himself, the Hierarchy of Hell frowns on that.
Angels and demons are obvious players in this drama. But you could also involve an outside candidate. Maybe there's an Inevitable that finally caught onto this case and is not convinced the devil's contract is valid. Maybe Pharasma's courts reverse some previous ruling, overthrowing old caselaw allowing this contract.
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Ultimately, it should be the players that play the deciding role. It should not be an angelic Deus Ex Machina
But it's reasonable for them to seek allies. That's okay, but the devil will also have backup plans. He's been doing this for a while, and he's seen quite a few mortals try to wriggle out of contracts. So when the PCs think their celestial allies will solve everything, the devil pulls out a restraining order. However, in all the maneuvering, the PCs have somehow obtained some advantages (equipment "left behind" by a banished angel, knowledge of the devil's weaknesses, knowledge of what powers the devil is going to use, a few more rounds to buff while the devil's buffs tick down) that swings things in their favor.
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Has the PC in question derived any benefit from the contract? IF not why not, most of the time it requires the devil to grant a boon to the signatory of the contract. Contracts that do not expire are invalid you have to give something to get something.
I have a character that bargained with the BIG MAN himself and fulfilled the terms of the contract to the letter and he was Promoted to a full Devil as the big guy was very pleased with my character as in fulfilling the contract he thwarted a plan of Mammon's and let Asmodeus Lord Mammon's failure over him.
Not really a fan of forefathers being able to sell the souls of future generations. I always imagined devils enjoying convincing an individual to willingly choose to bargain their soul.
If it is contract related, I'd love to know what the devil gave in order to gain a soul seemingly every generation... That's an incredibly valuable resource.
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I always get a chuckle at how devils are portrayed as following the letter of a tangible document, when going after the most intangible of concepts - the soul.Well, it's classic folklore.
There are also some good reasons for it. Even today, a lot of people feel that writing is somehow magical (e.g., if it's written down, it must be true, regardless of the type of source cited). There's also the very Christian vibe that souls cannot be stolen, but can only be given willingly. Thus, Satan needs either to barter for souls or to trick people into giving them away.
... and contracts are very good documents for tricking people.
It also ties into the concepts of 'I gave you what you asked for...' and the superficial nature of sin.
As for how the devils use tangibles for intangibles, one could argue thats how it goes. A person throws away their immortal soul because they're gluttonous, or kill people for money, or any of a countless number of superificial transient reasons.