Warpriest Discussion


Class Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

Craft Cheese wrote:
Furthermore wrote:
Yup. Chaotic Neutral Warpriest of Torag is totally allowed by RAW thus far.
IIRC, clerics (and paladins) of Golarion are allowed to be of an incompatible alignment with their deity in exceptional circumstances. I think there's an official Paladin of Asmodeus somewhere...

Kinda.


ciretose wrote:
Kinda

Oh. That's a shame: A Cleric/Paladin who serves their deity's interests in spite of being a different alignment is a really interesting idea, IMO.

Liberty's Edge

Craft Cheese wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Kinda
Oh. That's a shame: A Cleric/Paladin who serves their deity's interests in spite of being a different alignment is a really interesting idea, IMO.

That is what house rules are for.


ciretose wrote:
That is what house rules are for.

Oh totally, and I will be houseruling that: It's just a shame I have to houserule it and it's not an official part of how the setting works, since it's pretty different from how most settings interpret divine casters. When people say "Hey Craft, why do you like Golarion?" I can't list this as a reason.


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ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:
ciretose wrote:


Otherwise, why actually use the favored weapon?

So it is now about mechanics.

Giving real choises is good for mechanics and for flavor.

Penalizing for a choise is bad mchanically and it is bad for flavor.

The favored weapon never hurted the cleric, never hurted the paladin, never hurted the iquisitor... does the game lacked of flavour before the warpreist?

And as I said in the other thread you can't argue both ways.

Your side is arguing that the favored weapons are underpowered and so you shouldn't have to use them, despite them being the favored weapons of the god.

You are arguing the flavor of using the favored weapon is not worth the cost mechanically.

You can't then reasonably argue that people will regularly choose the favored weapon for "flavor" and therefore there doesn't need to be an incentive.

And I wish there was a flag for people who claim not getting a bonus is a penalty.

I like when flavor can be represented mechanically. I like when mechanics give several flavorful options. I like that euilibrium.

THe warrpriest favored weapon just fail at both mehcanics andd flavor.


Craft Cheese wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Kinda
Oh. That's a shame: A Cleric/Paladin who serves their deity's interests in spite of being a different alignment is a really interesting idea, IMO.

Rules are breakable and bendable...

Sometimes it is good to show that a person is chosen whether they want to be or not... sometimes they are on "A mission frahm Gahd" and despite their unscrupulous nature (and their rambunctious blues music played with a large cast of colorful characters and cameos by musical legends) they have the favor of the deity, and that is enough.

In that same way, there can be artifacts or sacred weapons that have become so because of their use in the hands of a powerful follower or their part in forwarding the deity's goals. This is essentially what is happening with a divine bond.... the weapon type is irrelevant, whether the paladin worships Gorum or Sarenrae... their God fills it with might just as they fill the Paladin with might.

I have always liked that... a Paladin could pick up a rock, and in time of need, turn that rock into a weapon of Holy force. (or perhaps I should suggest a mustard seed)

Liberty's Edge

Nicos wrote:

I like when flavor can be represented mechanically.

You mean like giving a bonus to a follower of a god for using the favored weapon of the God?

Like that?

Because that is what they are doing. They are representing the Gods preference for a weapon with a mechanical bonus.

Literally. That is what they are doing.

You don't like the flavor, but the mechanics do represent the flavor perfectly.

Liberty's Edge

Lord_Malkov wrote:
Craft Cheese wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Kinda
Oh. That's a shame: A Cleric/Paladin who serves their deity's interests in spite of being a different alignment is a really interesting idea, IMO.

Rules are breakable and bendable...

Sometimes it is good to show that a person is chosen whether they want to be or not... sometimes they are on "A mission frahm Gahd" and despite their unscrupulous nature (and their rambunctious blues music played with a large cast of colorful characters and cameos by musical legends) they have the favor of the deity, and that is enough.

In that same way, there can be artifacts or sacred weapons that have become so because of their use in the hands of a powerful follower or their part in forwarding the deity's goals. This is essentially what is happening with a divine bond.... the weapon type is irrelevant, whether the paladin worships Gorum or Sarenrae... their God fills it with might just as they fill the Paladin with might.

I have always liked that... a Paladin could pick up a rock, and in time of need, turn that rock into a weapon of Holy force. (or perhaps I should suggest a mustard seed)

Because the Paladin is what is enhanced, in exchange for following a strict code.

And the Paladin already does that, so the Warpriest will do something else.


ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:

I like when flavor can be represented mechanically.

You mean like giving a bonus to a follower of a god for using the favored weapon of the God?

Like that?

Because that is what they are doing. They are representing the Gods preference for a weapon with a mechanical bonus.

Literally. That is what they are doing.

You don't like the flavor, but the mechanics do represent the flavor perfectly.

You missed my second sentence. They are pigeonholing the player into a single style for every deity, " I want to be a Warpriest of gorumt that fight with a cestus and armur spikes", well you are out of luck.

It represent one fluff, it deny every other. This is bad, very bad.

Liberty's Edge

Nicos wrote:


You missed my second sentence. They are pigeonholing the player into a single style for every deity, " I want to be a Warpriest of gorumt that fight with a cestus and armur spikes", well you are out of luck.

It represent one fluff, it deny every other. This is bad, very bad.

Unless you spend a single feat....


Well good morning :T Look ciretose isn't going to budge so we should probably drop it.


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We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

Liberty's Edge

AnCapBrony wrote:
Well good morning :T Look ciretose isn't going to budge so we should probably drop it.

Not all of us think the sky is falling if you need to spend a feat on something.

YMMV...


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Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

I try to ignore him


ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:


You missed my second sentence. They are pigeonholing the player into a single style for every deity, " I want to be a Warpriest of gorumt that fight with a cestus and armur spikes", well you are out of luck.

It represent one fluff, it deny every other. This is bad, very bad.

Unless you spend a single feat....

WIch is terrible, and it is not even something that devs have said they are considering.

Liberty's Edge

Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

I respond to posts directed at me or the topic.

Odd concept I know...


I think the devs will get the gist of what we are all saying when they look through the thread.

Liberty's Edge

Nicos wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:


You missed my second sentence. They are pigeonholing the player into a single style for every deity, " I want to be a Warpriest of gorumt that fight with a cestus and armur spikes", well you are out of luck.

It represent one fluff, it deny every other. This is bad, very bad.

Unless you spend a single feat....
WIch is terrible, and it is not even something that devs have said they are considering.

Oh the sky is falling, I have to take a feat to get a bonus to a weapon. That has never been expected before in any class...

Shadow Lodge

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ciretose wrote:
Unless you spend a single feat....

1.)To use armor spikes and a cestus as favored weapons, you need to spend 2 feats.

2.)To put this simply...YOU MADE THAT FEAT UP! It might be in the ACG, but it very easily could be left out of the ACG. Could you please stop bringing up what is essentially a houserule of yours until we know it has been added?

Liberty's Edge

Actually, I would say giving it to two weapons is too much.

Sacred weapon, not weapons.

And if I were you, given that it will be for the sacred weapon on the update blog post, I would get on the feat bandwagon before they just leave it as it is your sacred weapon, period, full stop.


ciretose wrote:

You mean like giving a bonus to a follower of a god for using the favored weapon of the God?

Like that?

Because that is what they are doing. They are representing the Gods preference for a weapon with a mechanical bonus.

Literally. That is what they are doing.

You don't like the flavor, but the mechanics do represent the flavor perfectly.

And I thought I was supposed to be the offensive and snide one. Did you offer to work for a lower wage? I swear, being undercut in the sarcasm department happens too often in today's online economy, how's a guy supposed to find work?

Now, to address the topic at hand. Preface: I'm going to reference 3.5 deities, because they're the ones I'm most familiar with. Since they still have favored weapons, domains, and defined religions I'm going to assume that no one minds.

Meet Serena Witcholm, the oldest of the Witcholm siblings and one of my favorite characters that I brought to a game table. In her original incarnation she was a Crusader 4/Cleric 1 sprinting just about as fast as possible to Ruby Knight Vindicator, but that's easy enough to scrap. After all, her flavor was essentially that of the Warpriest now - a divinely-empowered warrior in service to her Church.

Serena embraced the family faith of Wee Jas, as did her two siblings. Coming from a long line of those who served the Stern Lady, Serena was a quiet but firm example of the faith, upholding the principles of order, punishment, discipline, responsible use of magic, and the preservation of knowledge. Wee Jas' favored weapon is the dagger, which Serena wore on her hip to broadcast her faith to the world. However, when it came to battle Serena preferred a long, slim two-handed sword with each of its edges sharpened - partially because it was practical, but also because of the symbolism. The two-edged sword is a weapon of execution, used to end the lives of members of the 'upper class' whose crimes demand their lives in payment. Serena chose to use the blade out of a desire to remember that no one is above the law, and that no one can escape Death.

Liberty's Edge

AnCapBrony wrote:
I think the devs will get the gist of what we are all saying when they look through the thread.

That a very vocal minority think asking someone to take a feat to get bonuses to a weapon that is not favored by your deity is wrongbadfun.

Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Power Attack, Precise Shot, etc called...


ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:


You missed my second sentence. They are pigeonholing the player into a single style for every deity, " I want to be a Warpriest of gorumt that fight with a cestus and armur spikes", well you are out of luck.

It represent one fluff, it deny every other. This is bad, very bad.

Unless you spend a single feat....
WIch is terrible, and it is not even something that devs have said they are considering.
Oh the sky is falling, I have to take a feat to get a bonus to a weapon. That has never been expected before in any class...

I have to take a feat to even function as a class. Horrible.


You have a very warped view of a minority considering your the only one asking for a feat tax.


ciretose wrote:
AnCapBrony wrote:
I think the devs will get the gist of what we are all saying when they look through the thread.

That a very vocal minority think asking someone to take a feat to get bonuses to a weapon that is not favored by your deity is wrongbadfun.

There is a very vocal really small minority taht think thaking that feat is rightgoodfun.

Liberty's Edge

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AnCapBrony wrote:
You have a very warped view of a minority considering your the only one asking for a feat tax.

I'm the only one left in the thread asking for it. Everyone else read the blog post, realized that it was going to stay favored, and moved on.

Go read the "outcry" in the blog post thread.

I'm only sticking around in the hope that a discussion of how to implement changes to give more parity to favored weapons will break out between the chicken little "the sky is falling if I have to take a feat for a different weapon" posts.

But even that got dragged over to the other thread I created...


How about this for a feat. Let sacred weapon apply to any weapon that the warpriest desires (like the paladin's divine bond) and then take a feat that will give even more bonuses to the deity's favored weapon. That way we have flexibility and choice and favored weapon is still favored. (i know this feat has been suggested before, i think it was beard but im nit sure)


ciretose wrote:

Not all of us think the sky is falling if you need to spend a feat on something.

YMMV...

We're not arguing that the loss of a single feat means the sky is falling - we're arguing it is an unnecessary, awkward, and counter-intuitive gameplay concept that both mechanically and flavor-wise limits the class for no good reason.

For the heck of it let's explore some other awesome gameplay ideas with minor flavor and mechanical drawbacks, drawbacks that could easily be solved with a single feat:

Wizards can no longer cast spells that have FA-, R-, or ST- in them - this is because wizards are socially awkward and tend to stutter. No worries though, they can take "The King's Speech"-feat which lets them remove one letter combination from their stutter list.

Rangers can no longer have animal companions that have the scent ability, as they spend lots of time in the woods, don't spend enough time bathing and therefore smell bad. No worries though, they can take the "Clear, Dry and Cool"-feat which lets them apply a chemical paste to their armpits that will counteract the toxin.

Druids are no longer allowed to wear clothing because it's like totally unnatural. No worries though, they can take the brand new "Detailed Wildshape" feat that lets them wildshape strategically placed leaves to cover up their modesty! Shame about level 1-5 though.

Fighters can no longer use weapons of any kind as we feel this is unrealistic. We were going to add a feat that would alleviate this, but Fighters can't have nice things™.

Small cavaliers no longer gain the mount feature, as they're too small and they'd probably just get eaten by their riding dog anyway - those beasts are huge and I'm afraid of mastiffs. No worries though, if they pick up the Boon Companion feat they get a pet that puts up with them after all - we're thinking something like a miniature dachshund but nothing's locked in yet - we might open it up to Corgies as well.

Or to step outside of Pathfinder for a sec:

We've added a new feature to your ride! your car will now have no brake power roughly every fifth time you go down a slope. No worries though, if you pop the hood and press the big red button that'll reset the brakes. Just make sure you pull over and press it every four slopes!

We've added a Windows update function that will continuously scan your computer to make sure your Windows copy is legitimate. This may drain some, or more likely a lot of your system memory but don't worry - if you buy the new Windows Ultimate Certified Edition from us we're reasonably sure you actually did buy Windows and so we'll only do the scan every three days instead of 24/7.

I'd keep coming up with examples but frankly I don't think I'm going to convince you anytime soon so I am going just going to reiterate what I, and many many other posters have stated:

If a core gameplay element is a heavy mechanical AND character concept-limitation that adds mediocre and most of the time no flavor, asking people to take a feat to sidestep it is not okay. It's a patch for shoddy design that shouldn't have been implemented in the first place.


Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

Well then, let's talk about something else!

I propose the "Standard action for a 1-minute buff" blessings should just be replaced with always-on passive abilities that only apply to the Warpriest. A couple of them like Glorious Presence and Battle Companion would need to be re-written, but most of them would function just fine as-is.


Craft Cheese wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

Well then, let's talk about something else!

I propose the "Standard action for a 1-minute buff" blessings should just be replaced with always-on passive abilities that only apply to the Warpriest. A couple of them like Glorious Presence and Battle Companion would need to be re-written, but most of them would function just fine as-is.

Sounds interesting. Any example abilities?

Liberty's Edge

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You don't think the favored weapon of the God is actually something that should be given favor.

I think it is. So do the people who included in the game going back however long that is.

It really is that simple.

Arcane casters get penalities for wearing armor, druids don't wear metal and speak a language no one else can know, Clerics and Paladins can lose powers for not following the tenets of the faith, and Warpriests get bonuses when they use the favored weapons of the Gods they choose.

So again, attempting to move forward, what suggestions for getting the weapons to greater parity?

Shadow Lodge

ciretose wrote:
That a very vocal minority think asking someone to take a feat to get bonuses to a weapon that is not favored by your deity is wrongbadfun.
Its not that it is wrongbadfun, its that it is mechanically and flavorfully restrictive to force them into use this weapon or take a feat (which is a feat tax). Which is different then if a feat gave them a nice bonus when using your deity's favoed weapon, which isn't a tax because you can still be good without that feat. If a feat makes you viable, its a tax. If a feat makes you better, its gravy*.
ciretose wrote:
And if I were you,[...] I would get on the feat bandwagon before they just leave it as it is your sacred weapon, period, full stop.
*cough*
I wrote:
You forgot one part ciretose, that feat was made up by fans, and might not be in the ACG. I honestly would support this compared to just being forced to use one weapon, but I would prefer not to have it as a feat tax. I guess as long as it is a combat feat available at level one.
*cough*
I wrote:
I also think that if a feat (or even small 2 feat chain, because the class has feats built in) that let you use a different weapon as your deity's favored weapon for the class would be great, provided warpriests could get it at low levels (3 at the latest) to not be mechanically weak for 5 levels but choose an awesome flavor choice.

I already support the feat ciretose, I just don't think it is an optimal solution. I have voiced this in other places I believe, but I can't find them (flamewar drowned them out). I would prefer there not be a feat tax.

*:
Included this bit about feat taxes so that the argument that its a feat tax either way doesn't start.
Liberty's Edge

Craft Cheese wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

Well then, let's talk about something else!

I propose the "Standard action for a 1-minute buff" blessings should just be replaced with always-on passive abilities that only apply to the Warpriest. A couple of them like Glorious Presence and Battle Companion would need to be re-written, but most of them would function just fine as-is.

I agree that a number of things need to be switched to always on. I'm not sure about the blessings specifically, but case by case I would prefer this class be less hampered by action economy issues on non-casting abilities.


Craft Cheese wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

Well then, let's talk about something else!

I propose the "Standard action for a 1-minute buff" blessings should just be replaced with always-on passive abilities that only apply to the Warpriest. A couple of them like Glorious Presence and Battle Companion would need to be re-written, but most of them would function just fine as-is.

I like the idea of blessings being passive instead of user-activated, since the action economy is pretty crowded as it is with sacred weapon and sacred armor as well as a reliance on buff spells in order to do well in combat.

I think maybe some of them might be on the strong side for continuous effect - Holy Strike under Good Blessing for instance would be a permanent half-strength Holy effect at level 1 and Liberation would be a continuous Freedom of Movement - I'm reading through the blessings now so I might edit this post more if I find more options.


ciretose wrote:

You don't think the favored weapon of the God is actually something that should be given favor.

I think it is. So do the people who included in the game going back however long that is.

It really is that simple.

Arcane casters get penalities for wearing armor, druids don't wear metal and speak a language no one else can know, Clerics and Paladins can lose powers for not following the tenets of the faith, and Warpriests get bonuses when they use the favored weapons of the Gods they choose.

So again, attempting to move forward, what suggestions for getting the weapons to greater parity?

You can take a feat to make it better than the other weapons, thus it is favored. Hell the paladin could also take this feat, give him more flavor.


AnCapBrony wrote:
Craft Cheese wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
We have. Repeatedly. He keeps bringing it back up though :-/

Well then, let's talk about something else!

I propose the "Standard action for a 1-minute buff" blessings should just be replaced with always-on passive abilities that only apply to the Warpriest. A couple of them like Glorious Presence and Battle Companion would need to be re-written, but most of them would function just fine as-is.

Sounds interesting. Any example abilities?

So for example with air you would never take penalties at a range and never provoke? Sounds dippable unless you made them scaling(Which I really don't mind).


AnCapBrony wrote:
Sounds interesting. Any example abilities?

Off the top of my head:

Community: Arrow Deflection on your shield at level 10, and aid another gives a +4 bonus at level 1. Not bad.

Darkness: This one needs to be rewritten. Always-on concealment at level 1 is too strong: Nerf it to a 5% * half class level (minimum 5%) miss chance that doesn't work in full daylight. Keep the Darkened Vision ability as-is, but let the Warpriest apply it with a melee weapon attack.

Destruction: Morale bonus to damage equal to your level? Nice. Heart of Carnage needs to be rewritten anyway: 50% chance to negate your own critical hits? Really?

Earth: DR 1/- at level 10? Honestly not even that great. Definitely wouldn't be a problem, I'd honestly buff it to DR 3/-, minimum.

Fire: Always-on 1d6+10 damage to anyone who hits you in melee is actually kinda neat.

Healing: Fast Healing 3 at level 10 is actually pretty awesome.

EDIT: For Air, I'd keep being able to make ranged attacks without provoking AoOs, but make the ranged penalty thing instead increase the range increment of your weapon by 5 feet per level.


Craft Cheese wrote:
AnCapBrony wrote:
Sounds interesting. Any example abilities?

Off the top of my head:

Community: Arrow Deflection on your shield at level 10, and aid another gives a +4 bonus at level 1. Not bad.

Darkness: This one needs to be rewritten. Always-on concealment at level 1 is too strong: Nerf it to a 5% * half class level (minimum 5%) miss chance that doesn't work in full daylight. Keep the Darkened Vision ability as-is, but let the Warpriest apply it with a melee weapon attack.

Destruction: Morale bonus to damage equal to your level? Nice. Heart of Carnage needs to be rewritten anyway: 50% chance to negate your own critical hits? Really?

Earth: DR 1/- at level 10? Honestly not even that great. Definitely wouldn't be a problem, I'd honestly buff it to DR 3/-, minimum.

Fire: Always-on 1d6+10 damage to anyone who hits you in melee is actually kinda neat.

Healing: Fast Healing 3 at level 10 is actually pretty awesome.

That healing one does sound pretty awesome.

Liberty's Edge

ArmouredMonk13 wrote:
Stuff

Is it that everyone thinks each of my posts is specifically at them? Is that the problem?

You and Shadar Aman (and others uncle something I don't remember and I'm not scrolling back) have both been more reasonable.

Others have been "Spending a feat is like killing a kitten!"

The problem I have with your solution is now we are power creeping up an additional bonus when the default should be using the favored weapon of your god, with not using it being the exception.

Why?

Because followers of a god generally follow direction of the god, including regarding favored weapons. The exception should be the feat, the baseline should be taking the weapon of the God you picked.

Now I'm all in agreement with finding ways to make these weapons more interesting and better, hell I spend 20 minutes this morning doing a post in the other thread going god by god with enchantments.

But that discussion doesn't seem to want to happen because some people are apparently outraged at not having ignoring the tenets of the faith you are following be the "default" option.

Liberty's Edge

MrSin wrote:

So for example with air you would never take penalties at a range and never provoke? Sounds dippable unless you made them scaling(Which I really don't mind).

Dipping is the big concern with an always on. I would say swift, but they already have to many swift options.

If Sacred Armor and Weapon were always on, that would solve most of that problem.

I proposed rounds per level in my thread.


At least there's always the option to play cleric :T


Inquisitors get the option of fast healing 4 at level 9 through their Judgement, continuous fast healing 3 might be on the high end of the power spectrum... The Healing and the Protection Blessings would definitely make for a very tanky Warpriest though, which I have to admit I like. If the blessings are both powerful and unique that would make two warpriests stand out a lot more from each other. At the moment (mainly standard action to activate, limited amount of charges per day) they're kind of underwhelming.

Mr. Bulmahn, any chance you'd be willing to share some of your thoughts on the Warpriest at the moment, or give us an idea of when the revised Warpriest will be available?

I'd be very interested to playtest it this weekend if at all possible.

Silver Crusade

Craft Cheese wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Kinda
Oh. That's a shame: A Cleric/Paladin who serves their deity's interests in spite of being a different alignment is a really interesting idea, IMO.

Explain how a paladin could conceivably serve Asmodeus' interests (which mainly include the damnation of everyone he can get his claws on) while remaining a paladin. It's not interesting; it just doesn't make sense.


Kudaku wrote:
Inquisitors get the option of fast healing 4 at level 9 through their Judgement, continuous fast healing 3 might be on the high end of the power spectrum...

Eh, it's like having Persistent Vigorous Circle, which you could do at level 11 in 3.5 and honestly worked out just fine so long as your DM wasn't trying to starve you on healing (and that doesn't work too well at that high of a level anyways). Except that's for the whole party.

I'd be fine with lowering it to Fast Healing 1 if there are concerns though.


Renegade Paladin wrote:
Craft Cheese wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Kinda
Oh. That's a shame: A Cleric/Paladin who serves their deity's interests in spite of being a different alignment is a really interesting idea, IMO.
Explain how a paladin could conceivably serve Asmodeus' interests (which mainly include the damnation of everyone he can get his claws on) while remaining a paladin. It's not interesting; it just doesn't make sense.

Asmodaeus places law highly, and is a powerful figure in some places. While a paladin might not be entirely interested in his diabolical interest, law and order and contracting are very important, and even Saranrae would work with Asmodaeus at some times. Additionally, paladin's by RAW don't require an actual deity. Hellknights themselves have some more good aligned orders among them, though many of the eviler ones are the more prominent and visible.


Renegade Paladin wrote:
Explain how a paladin could conceivably serve Asmodeus' interests (which mainly include the damnation of everyone he can get his claws on) while remaining a paladin. It's not interesting; it just doesn't make sense.

Let's say an orphanage is burning down and all the kids are trapped inside. Asmodeus wants you to go in and save them, because he knows if they die now he won't get their souls. Is saving the orphans Evil? I'd say it's totally possible to serve an Evil deity's interests by performing a Good act.

It's interesting because it creates complications in the relationship between the divine character (whether Paladin or Cleric) and their patron deity: Something that many paladin/cleric characters simply gloss over. How can you serve your deity well enough to be able to keep your powers, yet also do what you believe is right? It's a lot harder than just playing a cleric of a deity you always agree with, but I think that makes it a worthwhile roleplaying challenge.


ciretose wrote:
MrSin wrote:

So for example with air you would never take penalties at a range and never provoke? Sounds dippable unless you made them scaling(Which I really don't mind).

Dipping is the big concern with an always on. I would say swift, but they already have to many swift options.

If Sacred Armor and Weapon were always on, that would solve most of that problem.

I proposed rounds per level in my thread.

True. I wouldn't mind this being something that you lose if you leave the class though. The multiclass restrictions make this a pretty reasonable caveat to the class abilities, since you can't jump out to go straight cleric or anything (which would justify keeping the bonuses).

I am always a bit more fond of flavorful options that are swift/immediate utility options, movement altering options, or always on.

There are a lot of things clamoring for attention when you add a standard action ability to a class. This is fine for domain powers/bloodline powers because they are there, in many ways, to give you a non-spell option. These effectively give clerics, wizards and sorcerers something to use at low level when they have very limited spells. (other than use a weapon).

For the warpriest, that really isn't a concern (or shouldn't be) because we know that this class will be wading into combat. Standard actions, then, are really a bad choice.

I think what could also work, since it seems like they may be upping the Channel Energy end of the class, is to make a Blessing work like a rider for Channel Energy... effectively, this would make Blessings be to Channel as mercies are to lay on hands.


Since no other class is required to use the deity's favored weapon, then there is no reason to restrict this class either. If, as a player or GM, you feel that it's more appropriate for your campaign, then encourage it. There are plenty of ways to do this without having to require it as part of the class.

What I feel the class is lacking is really any individuality. I don't like the idea of just making it a divine magus. I don't like the idea of using the inquisitor's spell list. I want the class to feel unique.

It took me a few days to read the whole thread (work and all getting in my way) and there has been very little playtest results. I haven't had the chance to run it through a game yet. I was hoping to see more of what others have experienced.

I would like to see something really unique. Maybe channeling spell slots to boost their weapon and armor. Make the bonuses based on the school of magic. You have to sacrifice a spell of the appropriate school to gain the appropriate bonus.

For example (these are all swift actions and last a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier):

1) Abjuration:
a) Armor: You get a bonus to AC or saving throws based on the spell level sacrificed.
b) Weapon: You can dispel magic effects using your caster level plus the magic bonus of the weapon.

2) Conjuration:
a) Armor: You gain fast healing based on the spell level sacrificed.
b) Weapon: You call forth an entity to fight with you. It has an attack bonus equal to your level + Wisdom modifier. It always deals damage equal to your Wisdom modifier + the spell level sacrificed. It is always located directly opposite you so that you are always flanking.

3) Divination:
a) Armor: You gain an insight bonus on Initiative equal to the spell level sacrificed.
b) Weapon: You gain an insight bonus on attack rolls equal to the spell level sacrificed.

4) Enchantment:
a) Armor: You gain an insight bonus to Charisma based skills and to Sense Motive equal to the level of the spell sacrificed.
b) Weapon: When you strike an opponent in combat, you can cut through any enchantment spells that have taken hold. You essentially cast break enchantment using the level of the spell as a bonus.

5) Evocation:
a) Armor: You create an effect similar to fire shield but using any form of energy that you choose. You gain the defenses against the opposing energy type and deal damage according to the energy you chose. This cannot be changed without having to reuse this ability. The damage you deal is equal to 10 + twice the level of the spell.
b) Weapon: Choose a form of energy. Your weapon gains that magic weapon property. If you sacrifice a spell slot of 4th level or higher, your weapon gains the burst ability of that energy type. This works just like the magic weapon property of the same name. You also gain a bonus to damage equal to the spell level sacrificed.

6) Illusion:
a) Armor: You have a miss chance percentage equal to 10 times the level of the spell sacrificed.
b) Weapon: You reduce the miss chance equal to 10 times the level of the spell sacrificed. If you sacrifice a level 6 spell, you can instead gain the true seeing ability.

7) Necromancy:
a) Armor: Whenever you take damage, the opponent who dealt the damage takes an amount equal to the level of the spell sacrificed times 2.
b) Weapon: Your weapon can be used to heal your allies. The amount you heal is equal to the damage you would have dealt plus the level of the spell sacrificed.

8) Transmutation:
a) Armor: You reduce the armor check penalty equal to the level of the spell sacrificed. This can grant a bonus if you sacrifice a spell of a higher level than the penalty. You also choose one form of movement you have to gain a bonus of 5 times the spell level sacrificed.
b) Weapon: Your weapon gains an unusual property. It duplicates itself when it strikes. This gives you additional base damage dice equal to the level of the spell sacrificed. This works similar to the vital strike feats in this regard and cannot be combined with those feats.

These obviously still need some work. I didn't put a ton of thought into them. They are just ideas to build off of.

Scarab Sages

So, make Warpriest good with all martial weapons, and great with his favored weapon.

Awesome. How do we do that aside from the listed suggestions?

Liberty's Edge

Bob_Loblaw wrote:
Since no other class is required to use the deity's favored weapon, then there is no reason to restrict this class either.

1. Not required. Given a bonus. Would make this argument for weapon training or weapon specialization? How about favored enemies?

2. It is the primary class feature of the class. That is like saying since no other class is required to be restricted by armor, Wizards should be either.

But since you are here Bob, and you are good, can you take a look at what we were working on over here.

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