Honestly, I'd just be happy if they fixed the MAD problem. They are currently suffering from the same degree of debilitating MAD as was seen in 3.5e paladins. That class was so bad in 3.5e that it was only really useful as a stepping stone to get a bunch of blackguard levels after an intentional fall. That being said, the warpriest is still far more powerful ye olde paladin that was arguably weaker than taking levels in commoner. Still, that MAD is a huge issue. It should be the first thing they fix about this class, not its mechanics. Yeah, I will agree those need some brushing up, but that MAD is currently the one thing about the class that sticks out to me the most.
... Okay, maybe having active blessings be a swift action would also be helpful. >_>
IIRC, the only thing the Warpriest needs CHA for is channel energy. Unless your build is heavily focused on Channel Smite, you can go without it. Though it *would* be nice if Warpriest channeling was based on WIS instead... Then they'd still be kinda MAD but no more so than, say, an Inquisitor.
It'd also be great if there was some method for working around that DEX requirement to make good use of combat reflexes for builds interested in tanking; The Warder in the Path of War playtest has this problem in spades (and uses a class feature to achieve a partial solution).
|
Ok, here are my proposed changes (excluding any changes to Blessings, which I think need some distinctive revisions)
Move: Combat Feat from 1st to 2nd Level
Lose as is: Channel, Sacred Weapon, Sacred Armor.
Change: Remove the uses per day from Blessings completely.
Divine Power: At 1st level, the warpriest gains a reservoir of sacred or profane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapon. This divine pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his warpriest level (minimum 1) + his Wisdom modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the magus prepares his spells. The feat Extra Arcane Pool affects this pool.
Your divine power is used to fuel many of the abilities of the warpriest. At 1st level, Divine Power is used to activate your minor Blessing abilities.
At second level, you gain the ability to channel as a cleric, except that the saves are based on the warpriest's wisdom score (Yes, I realize this a unique situation, but they are MAD enough, as it is). A warpriest may expend 1 Divine Power to use their channel ability.
This ability increases by 1d6 at 5th level and every 3 levels after.
At 4th level, the warpriest gains the ability to imbue his focus weapon with divine power. As a swift action, the warpriest can enhance a weapon of the same type as the weapon selected for the focus weapon class feature. The power grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every four levels beyond 4th level, this bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. To activate this ability, you must expend 1 Divine Power. This bonus lasts for 1 minute.
These bonuses stack with any existing bonuses the weapon might have, to a maximum of +5. The warpriest can imbue a weapon with any of the following weapon properties: brilliant energy, defending, disruption, f laming, frost, keen, and shock. In addition, if the warpriest is
chaotic, he can add anarchic and vicious. If he is evil, he can add mighty cleaving and unholy. If he is good, he can add holy and merciful. If he is lawful, he can add axiomatic and ghost touch. Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the properties base cost (see Table 15–9 of the Core Rulebook). Duplicate abilities do not stack. The weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added, whether normally from itself or granted by this ability.
If the warpriest uses this ability on a double weapon, the effects only apply to one end of it.
At 7th level, the warpriest gains the ability to imbue his armor with divine power as a swift action. This power grants the armor a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 7th, this bonus
increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level. To activate this ability, you must expend 1 Divine Power. This bonus lasts for 1 minute.
These bonuses stack with any existing bonuses the armor might have, to a maximum of +5. The warpriest can imbue armor any of the following armor properties: energy resistance (normal, improved, and greater), ortification (heavy, light, or moderate), glamered, and spell resistance (13, 15, 17, and 19). Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the properties base cost (see Table 15–4 of the Core Rulebook). For this purpose, glamered counts as a +1, energy resistance counts as +2, improved energy resistance counts as +4, and greater energy resistance counts as +5. Duplicate abilities do not stack. The armor must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added, whether normally from itself or granted by this ability.
This ability cannot be applied to a shield.
At 1st level, a warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any warpriest spell with a casting time of 1 standard action and that has a personal or touch range (the target must be the warpriest) or activate any of his blessings that require a standard action or less and have a range of personal or touch (the target must be the warpriest). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks. If the warpriest is using a two-handed weapon, they may remove their hand to cast as a free action and return it as another free action.
Divine Focus: For the purpose of casting spells the Warpriest's weapon counts as their Divine Focus.
Sorry, it's late and I'm sure there are mistakes, but I think it fits and it works and will fulfill a lot of the needs of the class.
|
IIRC, the only thing the Warpriest needs CHA for is channel energy. Unless your build is heavily focused on Channel Smite, you can go without it. Though it *would* be nice if Warpriest channeling was based on WIS instead... Then they'd still be kinda MAD but no more so than, say, an Inquisitor.
It'd also be great if there was some method for working around that DEX requirement to make good use of combat reflexes for builds interested in tanking; The Warder in the Path of War playtest has this problem in spades (and uses a class feature to achieve a partial solution).
That is true enough. Thing is, channel smite would be an excellent utility with negative energy. ... And let's face it, having a class mechanic you can't use is just downright annoying. There could be so many more possibilities.
Are posts continuously getting ghost-deleted from this thread? This more than any other topic, every time I refresh there's like, a 50% chance that the page will be different than it was before.
@Heofthehills
All good stuff. I would totally accept this as a great rewrite.
The only thing I would change is for spell combat.
The cleric can cast any spell "with a duration greater than instantaneous" when using spell combat. On himself, as stated.
Good aligned clerics (or clerics that channel positive) can also cast cure spells on themselves or adjacent targets (including offensively against undead)
Evil aligned clerics (or clerics that channel negative) can also cast inflict spells. (including offensively)
I just don't want to see evil clerics restricted from using theirr inflicts competently when using this class. Thats all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, so I think people are mostly in agreement: Forcing the warpriest to use their deities' favored weapon is a really bad idea and should be discarded.
I think part of the appeal of playing a "martial cleric" is that they would be trained in a variety of weapons. As others have pointed out, there's no reason why an undead-destroying fanatic of Pharasma would be relying on a dagger. And what about some of the other deities that have weak favored weapons. The Archdevil Moloch, ruthless commander of Hell's diabolical armies...his favored weapon is a whip? What if I want to be a warpriest of him?
If I wanted to be limited to a favored weapon (and simple weapons) I'd play a regular cleric.
|
|
Baron, we need to focus on the core, so there aren't even any multiples if you just look at those (when I first started playtesting it, I picked Tian deities and was put off since I couldn't use their weapons, but we got that fixed). While it is true that there are lots, and LOTS of gods available now, it is pretty certain they really only want us to focus on the core stuff and not use the other bits in our playtesting.
Axial, I don't think that is something that can be agreed upon, as there are a good number on either side of that fence. I think that one is for Paizo and Co to decide. I see both sides, but I personally would prefer that it stick to favored, with an archetype that lets you switch.
|
|
The use of spell combat in this situation is to make it buff only, but in a pinch, they could also heal themselves (yes that does give an advantage to the warpriests who channel positive, but the negatives can and probably SHOULD prep cure spells, thus getting benefit out of it as well).
Personally, I would favor that aside from buffs, a divine equivalent version of spell combat should be tied to their channel/conversion feature. If negative, you can use it for your inflict spells and your buffs. If positive, your cure spells and buffs.
The use of spell combat in this situation is to make it buff only, but in a pinch, they could also heal themselves (yes that does give an advantage to the warpriests who channel positive, but the negatives can and probably SHOULD prep cure spells, thus getting benefit out of it as well).
Hey, I am with ya. I had the same first thought when looking at this class, and said as much back on page 2 of this thread.
But after some consideration, I think that since evil clerics can spontaneously cast inflicts, it would be unfair to disallow them to use this in conjunction with spell combat while a good cleric could use cures.
So, even if a Cleric that spontaneously casts cures can only do so on themselves, a cleric that spontaneously casts inflicts should be able to do so on enemies.
It isn't a big change, you could also leave it so that inflict is the ONLY caveat allowed, and good clerics can not use this to cast cures on Undead.
Buuut its probably easier to just to write in the Cure/Inflicts with the same language, self or other target within reach.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So while I like the idea of tying a divine warrior class to it's deity's favored weapon, the problem is that the favored weapons of the deities were not carefully selected for player use. Ever. 3.X or Pathfinder. They were selected for the deities own quirky personalities.
Pharasma's dagger is a great Golarion-specific example, but I just can't get Mystra's shuriken out of my head. Why are shuriken the favored weapon of the (western) goddess of magic? Because they're the closest in appearance to twinkling stars, and Mystra is all about stars.
If the goddess of magic gave two hoots about having a warpriest, I'm absolutely positive she wouldn't care if they opted for a weapon other than shuriken.
|
|
I am amazed that I didn't think of this earlier. Why not make the warpriest able to convert and cast all of the buff spells to which it is entitled? In addition to cure/inflict wounds, whatever their alignment dictates they can already spontaneously cast, I mean. That way they could prepare more cure (or inflict spells if they're running positive energy, and therefore convert slots to healing spells) and be better prepared for whatever may come. This change coupled with something like spell combat (or without it, even), which has been mentioned several times above, would drastically increase their overall effectiveness without losing the flavor already inherent to the class.
Another possibility, which I may have mentioned earlier (brain not braining so well at 5 AM), would be to give them some sort of variant of channel energy that makes it more efficient for combat. Well, that's assuming there was an intention for the warpriest to be able to apply its class mechanics offensively to any great degree. Perhaps giving them an ability that functions like the second feat in the channel smite chain (this would remove the need for taking smite channel as a feat, I know; might be pushing it considering how many feats they already get) would be in order, or something so simple as was mentioned earlier: Run their smite purely off wisdom. That would fix a lot of what is wrong right now.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like the idea of a character that has to use the deity's weapon more on the level of an archetype than on the level of a full class. I guess it's okay, in a game with something like seven fighty divine classes or whatever we're up to, for there to be one that doesn't work out so hot with a lot of deities, but it feels a bit inelegant.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've come around to agreeing that the deity's favored weapon idea should be scrapped almost entirely. Just give them simple and martial weapon proficiencies and proficiency in their deity's weapon, and let their features pretty much work on any weapon. With that in mind, I'm therefore abandoning the concept of a full BAB attacks with the favored weapon.
The cleric already has plenty of self-buffing spells. What the warpriest needs is a unified pool of energy they can use for their channeling and for swift casting of personal spells and touch spells they cast on themselves. When they cast a spell in that way, they should be able to do it without a free hand. I think sacred weapon and armor are nice and can stay, but they need generous durations. Finally, the warpriest needs a fighter's weapon training. With medium BAB they will never catch up in any case, but this is the only way they, as heavy hitters, can outperform other medium BAB classes with more diverse options.
Go ahead and just bake Channel Smite into the class. If, and only if, a warpriest is really fascinated by their deity's favored weapon, Guided Hand remains a relevant feat.
|
|
I've come around to agreeing that the deity's favored weapon idea should be scrapped almost entirely. Just give them simple and martial weapon proficiencies and proficiency in their deity's weapon, and let their features pretty much work on any weapon. With that in mind, I'm therefore abandoning the concept of a full BAB attacks with the favored weapon.
The cleric already has plenty of self-buffing spells. What the warpriest needs is a unified pool of energy they can use for their channeling and for swift casting of personal spells and touch spells they cast on themselves. When they cast a spell in that way, they should be able to do it without a free hand. I think sacred weapon and armor are nice and can stay, but they need generous durations. Finally, the warpriest needs a fighter's weapon training. With medium BAB they will never catch up in any case, but this is the only way they, as heavy hitters, can outperform other medium BAB classes with more diverse options.
Go ahead and just bake Channel Smite into the class. If, and only if, a warpriest is really fascinated by their deity's favored weapon, Guided Hand remains a relevant feat.
Take these suggestions here and add in some ability that, when combined with guided hand, will allow the warpriest to utilize its wisdom in place of strength for dealing damage. Even if it doesn't allow you to gain the bonus from two-handing the weapon (although I sort of feel like it should), it would greatly reduce their reliance on a high strength score. At that point channel could be left attached to CHA as per normal with one of the base classes, cleric, and not completely destroy its combat effectiveness. It would be an interesting choice, but removing their reliance on CHA for channel is probably still a better option than setting them up to use wisdom in place of strength.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Erastil's favored weapon is a bow. One would think the god would favor those who use his favored weapon...Unless you met an Erasilian paladin. He could be using any martial weapon. With every one of his divine powers.
And so at this point favored weapon means...
If the favored weapon isn't favored, there is no point to having a favored weapon. I'm fine with a feat allowing you to have an alternative sacred weapon, but if the god isn't favoring a weapon, why called it a favored weapon?
We aren't talking about the Paladin. The Paladin has smite as a class feature.
We are talking about a class that basically the only unique aspect of it is the "sacred" weapon.
If favored weapon status means nothing in the game, then they should just remove it and save a few pages of space in the various books.
But I personally think it is good flavor and this is a good opportunity to have the favored weapon be used by the followers of the god.
If you think a set of weapons is to weak, make suggestions of how it could work.
As I said upthread, if you assign the blessings based on weapon types, you can have thrown weapons be returning, etc...and make the oddball weapons interesting.
But if we start throwing out interesting and cool flavor because it means someone, somewhere, might have to make a suboptimal mechanical choice...
I've come around to agreeing that the deity's favored weapon idea should be scrapped almost entirely.Then what is this class that you can't have with 12 levels of cleric and 8 levels of fighter?
A guy who self-buffs like a psychic warrior, channels as a cleric of about 2/3 his level, gains weapon training like a fighter, and has a sacred bond with weapon and armor. In my mind, he is a specialist in using his mediocre channel abilities in novel ways. Despite his modest spellcasting, he can cast swift spells on himself with ease while fighting with a greatsword or sword-and-shield. If he has the inclination, he can focus on Wisdom and grab Guided Hand, but other choices are also viable. If there's room on the table, he might also get a taste of the cavalier's Tactician ability.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If that is the only thing separating the WP from a cleric/fighter, that's pretty weaksauce.
|
|
A guy who self-buffs like a psychic warrior, channels as a cleric of about 2/3 his level, gains weapon training like a fighter, and has a sacred bond with weapon and armor. In my mind, he is a specialist in using his mediocre channel abilities in novel ways. Despite his modest spellcasting, he can cast swift spells on himself with ease while fighting with a greatsword or sword-and-shield. If he has the inclination, he can focus on Wisdom and grab Guided Hand, but other choices are also viable. If there's room on the table, he might also get a taste of the cavalier's Tactician ability.I've come around to agreeing that the deity's favored weapon idea should be scrapped almost entirely.Then what is this class that you can't have with 12 levels of cleric and 8 levels of fighter?
And that is a 12 level cleric and 8th level Fighter.
The only thing really interesting and different about this class is the sacred bonded weapon.
If you want to say that with a feat you can pick a different weapon, fine.
But it is the favored weapon of the God.
It should be shown favor in a class that is going to specifically give a weapon (not a person, like smite) additional power. Otherwise, why would they...well...favor the favored weapon.
Not you, I feel like if the wizard and sorcerer were playtested on here people would be complaining about the armor restrictions getting in the way.
Restrictions are what makes games, games.
"Soccer developers are constraining my creativity by not letting me use my hands!"
"Out of bounds? Man, why limit me?!?!"
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If someone really, really wants to use the favored weapon, and wants to just buff themselves up their eyeballs to compensate for how weak the weapon is, there really is no reason not to just play a cleric. The Warpriest will not be able to outperform a starknife-wielding cleric with Guided Hand, period.
Imagine if we were creating the druid class as a hybrid of ranger and cleric. Would people be squawking about invalidating the deity's favored weapon? I'm going to say yes, yes they would. But those people would be wrong, because the important thing about the druid is the archetype they represent, and only secondarily the specific characteristics of their deity or religion.
Same thing here. The warpriest is a champion of their deity. The favored weapon does matter, thematically, as demonstrated by the Guided Hand feat and the spiritual weapon spell. But ultimately, the warpriest is also a guy who fights. If he can't fight with a bow, with a sword, in a box, on a train, he's not really a fighter hybrid, he's just a cleric archetype that trades something for sacred bond. Although a warpriest is not a paladin, he is alike in that he dresses and fights like a fighter. If he feels very religious about the starknife, Guided Hand is still there, waiting for him, like a devoted high school boyfriend/girlfriend. When he cast spiritual weapon, it looks like the most awesome starknife in the history of all star knives. When he casts blade barrier, the sky fills with dozens of beautiful, celestial starknifes all singing praise to his god and shining like snowflakes in the sunlight. But when he wants to deadinate something, he hits it with a sword, a morningstar, something like that. He bashes it with his shield. He shoots it with his longbow or his brace of pre-loaded crossbows. Maybe he has a little picture of a starknife inscribed on his greatsword. But he does not mess around.
When the limits don't make sense in game, sure.
Soccer is about using your feet. In that sense, using your hands is kind of counter to the whole idea.
This would be more analogous to golf, only you're only allowed to use the one club your god favors, screw all those other ones in the bag.
Some gods allow the driver, some only a pitching wedge. You're not going to be successful.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, the Favored weapon IDEA is sound, it's just the execution is blech.
Maybe having it advance somewhat like a Soulknife or a Black Blade, it gains enhancement at every X level (permanently) for free. Different options available for different weapons (mostly because of the obvious, some stuff just isn't useful or usable for all weapons).
Have the armor do the same, and now we're talking a main class feature. A class whose weapons and armor glow with divine power.
And we're talking ANY weapons and armor, as long as they fit with the god.
Disarm this guy's +3 Longsword of Asskicking? Smash it? Take it from him and try beating him with it?
First, it loses all of its powers.
Second, he whips another (completely mundane) longsword out of his backpack and...BAM. You've accomplished pretty much nothing, he's still got his badass sword, and you're still on the receiving end of it.
He'd be sort of like the Monk, but slightly more reliant on gear (in that he needs gear, and he needs specific KINDS of gear, but doesn't need "This specific sword" or whatever).
Now, the main problem I see with this is throwing WBL out of whack, I suppose, which may make it undesirable, but I think it really fits the class and gives it a nice framework to build on.
And the armor's a side deal, can really be dropped. But the weapon thing is neato if I do say so myself. And it's probably been suggested before so weight of numbers and all that jazz bow to our will Paizo!
|
|
When the limits don't make sense in game, sure.
Soccer is about using your feet. In that sense, using your hands is kind of counter to the whole idea.
This would be more analogous to golf, only you're only allowed to use the one club your god favors, screw all those other ones in the bag.
Some gods allow the driver, some only a pitching wedge. You're not going to be successful.
No god is forbidding use of any weapon.
They are showing favor to the weapon they favor.
That is why it is called a favored weapon.
|
|
Yeah, the Favored weapon IDEA is sound, it's just the execution is blech.
Maybe having it advance somewhat like a Soulknife or a Black Blade, it gains enhancement at every X level (permanently) for free. Different options available for different weapons (mostly because of the obvious, some stuff just isn't useful or usable for all weapons).
Have the armor do the same, and now we're talking a main class feature. A class whose weapons and armor glow with divine power.
And we're talking ANY weapons and armor, as long as they fit with the god.
Disarm this guy's +3 Longsword of Asskicking? Smash it? Take it from him and try beating him with it?
First, it loses all of its powers.
Second, he whips another (completely mundane) longsword out of his backpack and...BAM. You've accomplished pretty much nothing, he's still got his badass sword, and you're still on the receiving end of it.
He'd be sort of like the Monk, but slightly more reliant on gear (in that he needs gear, and he needs specific KINDS of gear, but doesn't need "This specific sword" or whatever).
Now, the main problem I see with this is throwing WBL out of whack, I suppose, which may make it undesirable, but I think it really fits the class and gives it a nice framework to build on.
Exactly this. Except having to take a feat if it is not your God's favored weapon.
We've got to stop agreeing like this it's freakin' me out. =p
Cleric + fighter + pinch of "divine Soulknife" could work, but I'm not personally going to suggest that someone should try. The only reason the Soulknife works is because it has standardized characteristics, isn't equipment-dependent, and has gone through three versions of the psionics rules to get where it is now.
I actually don't have an issue with that. As long as each weapon receives roughly the same support (not adding throwing properties for things like daggers and starknives would be a good way to break that), I'd actually say it's not necessary, keep them locked to the Favored Weapon.
Though the Feat would be necessary for weapons who don't have gods attached, so yeah that'd be a good idea. I know I was disappointed when I looked desperately for a god who had the Swordbreaker as a Favored Weapon when building my Lawman (gestalt that never got off the ground Gunslinger/Inquisitor).
Cleric + fighter + pinch of "divine Soulknife" could work, but I'm not personally going to suggest that someone should try. The only reason the Soulknife works is because it has standardized characteristics, isn't equipment-dependent, and has gone through three versions of the psionics rules to get where it is now.
Well really if you wanna move it closer to home it's more like a "Divine Bladebound Magus" except instead of being locked to one specific weapon, you're locked to a particular TYPE of weapon. Perks of receiving your power straight from the gods and all.
|
|
@Rynjin - Also while it will give the class a WBL advantage, that is the benefit in exchange for losing 3 levels of spells.
You get your uber weapon for free. The main reason I suggested weapon training is that it already fits that mechanic (the weapon is good for you, no one else) and there are already feats that work with weapon training.
I suggest two things.
1. Make the weapon good for the user (but no one else)
2. Make the blessings also work toward making the weapon good by having them reflect weapon types, so sub-optimal deity weapons have cool special qualities that make them good.
Now we will see Desna Warpriests using starknives, because we've given them features like returning that make them really good...for Warpriests.
If you open it to all weapons, without showing favor to favored weapons in at minimum requiring a feat, there really is no reason at all to have favored weapons for Gods.
They aren't favored.
When the limits don't make sense in game, sure.
Soccer is about using your feet. In that sense, using your hands is kind of counter to the whole idea.
This would be more analogous to golf, only you're only allowed to use the one club your god favors, screw all those other ones in the bag.
Some gods allow the driver, some only a pitching wedge. You're not going to be successful.No god is forbidding use of any weapon.
They are showing favor to the weapon they favor.
That is why it is called a favored weapon.
Ok...
Then they are being asked to play with a handicap if they don't use their chosen club?It doesn't make sense in the long run. I think you're trying to avoid optimal weapon builds or some such, but it's just going to go the other way, with people dervish dancing in medium or light armor and such to use starknives because they wanted to be a warpriest of a certain deity.
People tend to build to take advantage of class features, not to spite them.
6 of one, half dozen of another.
A returning starknife is cute for a cleric who likes to disrupt enemy spellcasters. For a warpriest, it seems a little twee.
@Rynjin - Also while it will give the class a WBL advantage, that is the benefit in exchange for losing 3 levels of spells.
You get your uber weapon for free. The main reason I suggested weapon training is that it already fits that mechanic (the weapon is good for you, no one else) and there are already feats that work with weapon training.
I suggest two things.
1. Make the weapon good for the user (but no one else)
2. Make the blessings also work toward making the weapon good by having them reflect weapon types, so sub-optimal deity weapons have cool special qualities that make them good.Now we will see Desna Warpriests using starknives, because we've given them features like returning that make them really good...for Warpriests.
This part I like.
If you open it to all weapons, without showing favor to favored weapons in at minimum requiring a feat, there really is no reason at all to have favored weapons for Gods.
They aren't favored.
This does not follow. Paladins don't invalidate a god's chosen weapon, why would a warpriest?
Clerics gain proficiency with the god's favored weapon, but none of their class features depend on using it. Neither does the inquisitor's.Why should the warpriest?
|
|
This does not follow. Paladins don't invalidate a god's chosen weapon, why would a warpriest?
Clerics gain proficiency with the god's favored weapon, but none of their class features depend on using it. Neither does the inquisitor's.Why should the warpriest?
Same reason Rangers get bonuses against favored enemies.
It is a class feature.
Ok...
Then they are being asked to play with a handicap if they don't use their chosen club?Not being given a bonus is not being given a handicap. No one is say to give them minus for not using favored weapons.
Do you think Rangers are "Handicapped" when not fighting a "Favored" enemy?
No, but tell the ranger he can only use it with a dagger, and I think he is.
|
|
No, but tell the ranger he can only use it with a dagger, and I think he is.
Ok...
Then they are being asked to play with a handicap if they don't use their chosen club?Not being given a bonus is not being given a handicap. No one is say to give them minus for not using favored weapons.
Do you think Rangers are "Handicapped" when not fighting a "Favored" enemy?
Only against favored enemies.
The Warpriest can use it against any enemies. Because it is favored.
This does not follow. Paladins don't invalidate a god's chosen weapon, why would a warpriest?
Clerics gain proficiency with the god's favored weapon, but none of their class features depend on using it. Neither does the inquisitor's.Why should the warpriest?
Same reason Rangers get bonuses against favored enemies.
It is a class feature.
Not even remotely the same thing.
If, in your mind, the favored weapon is a big deal, why hasn't it been for any class to date?Why doesn't a paladin with weapon bond have to limit it to his deity's favored weapon? Should he?
Why doesn't an inquisitor only get to use bane with his deity's favored weapon?
Those are class features, aren't they?
|
|
This does not follow. Paladins don't invalidate a god's chosen weapon, why would a warpriest?
Clerics gain proficiency with the god's favored weapon, but none of their class features depend on using it. Neither does the inquisitor's.Why should the warpriest?
Same reason Rangers get bonuses against favored enemies.
It is a class feature.
Not even remotely the same thing.
If, in your mind, the favored weapon is a big deal, why hasn't it been for any class to date?Why doesn't a paladin with weapon bond have to limit it to his deity's favored weapon? Should he?
Why doesn't an inquisitor only get to use bane with his deity's favored weapon?Those are class features, aren't they?
That is the Paladin's class feature. Paladins themselves are imbued with divine power, and therefore they are subject to tons of restrictions.
The Inquistior is times per day, like a spell.
The Warpriests weapon is imbued with power. Because it is a weapon "favored" by the god.
Otherwise, it's weapon training.
No, but tell the ranger he can only use it with a dagger, and I think he is.
Ok...
Then they are being asked to play with a handicap if they don't use their chosen club?Not being given a bonus is not being given a handicap. No one is say to give them minus for not using favored weapons.
Do you think Rangers are "Handicapped" when not fighting a "Favored" enemy?
Only against favored enemies.
The Warpriest can use it against any enemies. Because it is favored.
While true, doesn't really address anything.
This does not follow. Paladins don't invalidate a god's chosen weapon, why would a warpriest?
Clerics gain proficiency with the god's favored weapon, but none of their class features depend on using it. Neither does the inquisitor's.Why should the warpriest?
Same reason Rangers get bonuses against favored enemies.
It is a class feature.
Not even remotely the same thing.
If, in your mind, the favored weapon is a big deal, why hasn't it been for any class to date?Why doesn't a paladin with weapon bond have to limit it to his deity's favored weapon? Should he?
Why doesn't an inquisitor only get to use bane with his deity's favored weapon?Those are class features, aren't they?
That is the Paladin's class feature. Paladins themselves are imbued with divine power, and therefore they are subject to tons of restrictions.
The Inquistior is times per day, like a spell.
The Warpriests weapon is imbued with power. Because it is a weapon "favored" by the god.
Otherwise, it's weapon training.
Ahh, ok...
So, it's just that you feel there needs to be a restriction there, and this favored weapon bit makes the most sense to you?Other than that, all I'm getting is a 'just cuz'.
It addresses what is favorable about something being a favored weapon.
You like Abbot and Costello a lot, don't you? :)
|
|
Ahh, ok...
So, it's just that you feel there needs to be a restriction there, and this favored weapon bit makes the most sense to you?
Other than that, all I'm getting is a 'just cuz'.
Or maybe flavor matters and it is a cool feature to have bonuses to the favored weapon of the deity.
I know thinking about flavor is often considered crazy talk by some on here...
I think "You get these powers for using the weapon favored by your god, follower of said god" is much more interesting than "You get this...'just cuz'"
YMMV...
Ahh, ok...
So, it's just that you feel there needs to be a restriction there, and this favored weapon bit makes the most sense to you?
Other than that, all I'm getting is a 'just cuz'.Or maybe flavor matters and it is a cool feature to have bonuses to the favored weapon of the deity.
I know thinking about flavor is often considered crazy talk by some on here...
I think "You get these powers for using the weapon favored by your god, follower of said god" is much more interesting than "You get this...'just cuz'"
YMMV...
So you're ok with sacred weapon not being limited to favored weapons only, but an additional something if one chooses to use it anyway?
|
|
So you're ok with sacred weapon not being limited to favored weapons only, but an additional something if one chooses to use it anyway?
Ahh, ok...
So, it's just that you feel there needs to be a restriction there, and this favored weapon bit makes the most sense to you?
Other than that, all I'm getting is a 'just cuz'.Or maybe flavor matters and it is a cool feature to have bonuses to the favored weapon of the deity.
I know thinking about flavor is often considered crazy talk by some on here...
I think "You get these powers for using the weapon favored by your god, follower of said god" is much more interesting than "You get this...'just cuz'"
YMMV...
I'm ok with a feat allowing you to choose an alternative weapon to act as your favored weapon.
As in, it is still better for you if you use the favored weapon, but if you are willing to invest you can have another weapon instead (not in addition, instead of)
The favored weapon should be the favored option.