Sean, I really like the flavor of Animal Aspect (it's much more interesting than vanilla Wildshape, IMHO) but it lasts so little it doesn't really allow the character to not buy those items.
The design team will be discussing the duration of this ability on Monday (as noted in the edit to the sticky post).
A low-level spell being made obsolete by gear is okay, but having one of your defining class features become useless once you buy appropriate gear that you'd probably buy anyway is a sign that class feature is not worth keeping.
And as RJ said, if you have a Dex belt, you'll end up using animal aspect for a non-Dex bonus.
Expanding on my instinct idea, a hunter needs to trap. I'm aware of the trapper, but it's much more magicky than I'd like. Perhaps a gritty reboot ;) is in order? (Were they to go with this mechanic, which I find unlikely, I would make favored terrain a standard class feature at a slowed progression)
As for other ability ideas (And these could be ungritted and made into regular animal focuses or what have you)
fierce hunter
As a move action, a hunter may spend 1 point of Instinct to gain a favored enemy bonus against 1 enemy in his line of sight equal to 1 per 4 hunter levels. This bonus lasts a number of rounds equal to the hunter's class level. His animal companion also gains (one half?) this bonus.
Hunter da sea!
As long as a hunter has at least 1 point of Instinct, he gains a +8 bonus to swim checks. As a swift action, he may spend 1 point to gain a swim speed of 20 ft and the ability to hold his breath twice as long as normal for a number of rounds equal to his level.
Rough and tumble
As an immediate action, a hunter may spend 1 point of Instinct to reduce the effective distance of a fall by 5 feet per 2 levels. This stacks with the acrobatics check to reduce falling damage.
long hunt
As long as a hunter has 1 point of instinct he may go twice as long as normal without food or sleep. As a swift action, he may spend 1 point to remove an instance of the fatigued or exhausted condition from himself.
Intuition (or copy the gunslinger ability that grants uncanny dodge)
As an immediate action, a hunter may spend 1 point of instinct to act in a surprise round. A hunter is not flat footed even if they have not yet acted int he surprise round.
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Perhaps the AC could gain its own Instinct pool? Or any ability could add a point to apply to the AC if it isn't one that is already about targeting them.
A low-level spell being made obsolete by gear is okay, but having one of your defining class features become useless once you buy appropriate gear that you'd probably buy anyway is a sign that class feature is not worth keeping.And as RJ said, if you have a Dex belt, you'll end up using animal aspect for a non-Dex bonus.
Yeah, but being a semi-martial character, the player is likely to boost pretty much all of his physical attributes. Being a caster, he'll need Wisdom as well. So he's likely to buy those items anyway. Animal Aspect is mostly a free sample of that gear.
Now, assuming it lasts all day long, it'd truly allow the character to spend his gold on something else... But then, we still have the issue that the character has less options than she had at 1st level.
At 1st level, she had 10 different Animal Aspects to choose from. Then she buys a Belt of Giant Strength... Now that same class feature only has 9 (real) options. One level later, she also buys a Headband of Inspired Wisdom, because she simply can't depend on Animal Aspect to cast her spells effectively. And now one of her main class features has only 8 (real) options. HP is also something she will need every battle, so it's better have it all the time than only when she uses Animal Aspect, so she upgrades her Belt to a belt of Physical Might (Str/Con +2) and Animal Focus now only has 7 options... And so on.
But there is another problem. If her main self buff is that she's able to add enhancement bonuses to her attributes, then she is not really buffing herself as much as she's trying to catch up to other classes, since the game already assumes she has those items anyway, simply having them is not truly an advantage. Hunter will have the same accuracy as Rogues (i.e.: not a very good one).
What if Animal Focus gave the Hunter the ability to choose from a pool of animal-like abilities, such as the ones granted by Wildshape, but instead of having them come in packs determined by the shape you take, the hunter could instead mix and match them as she wished, being able to get more and more abilities as she levels up, like a mix between a Druid's Wildshape and a Eidolons's Evolution Points.
e.g.:
At 1st level she can pick 1 ability from the following list:
low-light vision, 2 claw attacks (1d4), 1 bite attack (1d6), climb speed (30ft), swim speed (30ft).
At 6th level she can pick 2 abilities and adds the following abilities to her list:
darkvision, scent, wings (fly speed 30ft & average maneuverability), small size.
At 10th level she can pick 3 abilities and adds the following abilities to her list:
tremor-sense, pounce, large size, improved wings (fly speed 60ft & good maneuverability), grab attack.
And so on...
I have an idea for the ranged hunter and the melee animal companion.
The animal companion gets sneak attack, maybe 1d6 at first and increasing at 5, 9, 13, and 17. If the hunter goes first and shoots an opponent, the animal companion can sneak attack it on its turn that round.
If the animal companion hits the target first, then the hunter can either make a ranged touch attack against the target, or apply the animal companion's sneak attack damage to the hunter's ranged attacks against that target for the round.
Or maybe have them share a pool of sneak attack, at half the rogue's progression (1, 5, 9, 13, 17).
I think a combo of Teamwork Feats and Sneak Attack would make a really fun combo. Add a flanking/aid another bonus to attack rolls (+1 at 4th and every 4 thereafter), and it can be a quasi-full BAB. Maybe some move action --> swift action aid another between the hunter and his animal companion. And vice versa.
EDIT:
Maybe put the sneak attack at levels 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20, and you can fill in some dead levels. Maybe call it Pack Attack, and have it only work between the Hunter and his Animal Companion.
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I'd much prefer we limit the proliferation of pounce, but that's just me.
A lot of people here have some fantastic Teamwork Feat ideas. I created a thread that will hopefully be a repository to keep them all in a single location.
I think with some solid teamwork feat additions, this class would start to have that Hunter feel.
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I'd much prefer we limit the proliferation of pounce, but that's just me.
I, OTOH, would like to see more ways for martial character to stay relevant when they move 10ft... But I will avoid commenting any further on that to not derail the thread.
I would too, but I'd prefer achieving that in a different way, at least until PF 2.i comes out. I'd like to see more ways to make attack actions useful, my man!
It's PF 2.i because right now it's imaginary, and I'm not holding my breath.
Wanted to post my impressions from a playtest that happened tonight. We ran a party of four. 4th level. 25 point buy. Our party consisted of a Brawler, a Skald, a Bloodrager, and a Hunter. Thoughts on the Hunter:
-The player running the Hunter had a blast and had nothing but positive things to say.
-He really enjoyed the focus on the animal companion. It felt different from both the ranger and the druid thematically, while was similar enough to provide insight into good tactics, and to manage his expectations of what the Hunter could do.
-The spell list was solid, and appropriate.
-He did wish that there was martial weapon proficiency, but also posited that he might just be greedy when it came to those things. I felt that a scythe was less appropriate for the character, but I likely would have chosen a spear.
-I noticed that the character never dipped into his Animal Aspects, which surprised me. His focus was much more on the Animal Companion and using the teamwork feats to great benefit.
-He also commented that the amount of skills he had felt just right.
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A low-level spell being made obsolete by gear is okay, but having one of your defining class features become useless once you buy appropriate gear that you'd probably buy anyway is a sign that class feature is not worth keeping.And as RJ said, if you have a Dex belt, you'll end up using animal aspect for a non-Dex bonus.
The question on our minds however is, "Is 3/4ths BAB + Enhancement gear good enough to keep up with the other classes?"
The fact that you can swap to a different Aspect doesn't address the fact that the class is seriously lacking a way to keep up in combat. And since it casts off a late-access Druid list, I'm assuming you intend for the class to be Melee/Ranged and not a spell-slinger.TL;DR - Replacing Aspect of the Bull with Aspect of the Frog might be fun and flavorful, but it doesn't address the lack of combat capability.
At 20th level, I want AC to make any change.
DR10/cold iron, fey template, automatically confirm critical hit, or any.
What if either the Hunter or Companion meets the prerequisites, or if together they meet the prerequisites, the Hunter can select that Teamwork feat? Too much bookkeeping?My first suggestion would be to give the hunter a favored-enemy-like mechanic to bolster the medium bab without invalidating the ranger by being a full bab 6 level caster. Or maybe like the Guide's focus ability.
Second suggestion is that the animal companion gains the extra teamwork feats that the hunter does as bonus feats. As long as the hunter qualifies, both get it.
Too much bookkeeping for me, but if others can make it work easily enough then sure.
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Can I throw out some alternate versions of powers that I discussed earlier?
1. When the hunter accesses his aspect ability, let the animal companion and the hunter himself take different bonuses (that way at early levels the hunter can get a dex bonus while his bear friend can get a strength bonus).
2. I have started thinking of this class as being kind of bard-y but with an animal companion. Maybe the Hunter could get the ability to buff his animal companion (or even all friendly animals) by communicating tactics with simple grunts and signals. Like: give animals in a certain radius a competence bonus to attack and damage rolls while the hunter maintains this ability.
3 [an alternative to 2]. Give the animal companion an extra hit die at 5, 10, 15, and 20th level and make adjustments in their animal companion charts accordingly.
4 [alternative alternative to 2]. Give the Hunter animal companion an alternative hit to the druid animal companion (which is to say give it non-animal hit dice). Give it a d10 and full base attack progression from hit dice. Call the new animal companion ability "warrior companion" or some such thing. Make it not stack with other sources of animal companion without a feat or let it only stack with other classes with certain new character archetypes (like maybe a Cavalier archetype that gives up his banner and charge abilities for a warrior animal companion rather than a standard one).
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After playing a little more this weekend, I have a slight suggestion.
What about moving Hunter's Tactics to 1st level? Keep the free Teamwork feats at 3rd and every 3 levels thereafter.
I don't see this being a balance issue. Without teamwork feats, this ability is worthless. But giving it at level 1 (along with lots of new teamwork feats) gives Hunter's more options, and likely, the ability to fill new niches earlier (depending on the chosen teamwork feats).
I think animal aspect may be more significant when creating a character above first level, and possibky in PFS play, than one leveling up organically in a home game or AP. If the char gets a belt that he has to sell to buy other items he gets only 1/2 of the powers benefit. Also, this assumes a magic store exists in the world. If most magic items are random, the char may just end up with random junk.
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After playing a little more this weekend, I have a slight suggestion.
What about moving Hunter's Tactics to 1st level? Keep the free Teamwork feats at 3rd and every 3 levels thereafter.
I don't see this being a balance issue. Without teamwork feats, this ability is worthless. But giving it at level 1 (along with lots of new teamwork feats) gives Hunter's more options, and likely, the ability to fill new niches earlier (depending on the chosen teamwork feats).
Jessica, I think the worry is that it might make people want to dip hunter just to get the share teamwork. After all, if you are a cavalier, drop one level and now all your teamwork feats bind to your mount, or any other class that has companions.
What about dropping some templates on the AC to buff it back into relevance in the mid to high level ranges?
What about dropping some templates on the AC to buff it back into relevance in the mid to high level ranges?
This also struck me.
And it wasn't for power purposes, so much as.... Cavalier Beast Riders already get access to Huge mounts. Mammoth Riders get a Huge pet and a bunch of fat ability boosts.
It seems to me that the Hunter should have the best companion (aside from, perhaps, an eidolon... but I mean best Animal Companion)
So, I think that getting the Giant OR Advanced template (Hunter's Choice) for the animal companion at level 10/11 would be a great idea.
I also think that they should get straight up telepathic bond rather than just the Link at a certain point.
I think the Hunter should be able to cast spells with a range of Touch or Personal on the companion at a range of Close, and possibly that any spell with a duration that thee Hunter casts on himself should also apply to the Companion if he spends an extra slot (AKA spend one standard action and two 2nd level spells to cast barkskin on both the Companion and himself)
What about dropping some templates on the AC to buff it back into relevance in the mid to high level ranges?This also struck me.
And it wasn't for power purposes, so much as.... Cavalier Beast Riders already get access to Huge mounts. Mammoth Riders get a Huge pet and a bunch of fat ability boosts.
It seems to me that the Hunter should have the best companion (aside from, perhaps, an eidolon... but I mean best Animal Companion)
So, I think that getting the Giant OR Advanced template (Hunter's Choice) for the animal companion at level 10/11 would be a great idea.
I also think that they should get straight up telepathic bond rather than just the Link at a certain point.
I think the Hunter should be able to cast spells with a range of Touch or Personal on the companion at a range of Close, and possibly that any spell with a duration that thee Hunter casts on himself should also apply to the Companion if he spends an extra slot (AKA spend one standard action and two 2nd level spells to cast barkskin on both the Companion and himself)
yeah dude, totally on the same page. Teamwork feats, teamwork magic, Just make the the A team. The pet will make a perfect mr.T
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I feel like the other thing this class really needs is something unique that makes it stand out from it's parent classes. As it stands the hunter still plays and feels a lot like a mash up of its parent classes and is pretty much described in terms of them (i.e. it is a toned down hunter or ranger or a nerfed version of an inquisitor with the animal domain etc.) and I feel like that is where the big issue is. If we really want this class to stand on it's own 2 feet the classes main theme needs to become more prominent and unique like those of the revised arcanist or the swashbuckler which should help it a lot.
Some of the things I would really love to see is maybe converting the hunter to a more support character in combat while the animal gets to do more of the heavy lifting possibly through giving it some more buffs or allowing things like animal Int level magical beasts as options or some other ways to buff its stats. Meanwhile the actual hunter should have more options that allow them to be this support/field control monster, maneuvering around the battlefield and placing traps and field control that force their targeted prey to engage their monster the way they want them to.
Just my 2 cp on this.
Also has anyone from the Dev team talked about the possibility of having new Animal Companion options that include certain magical beasts, aberrations, or other animaly monsters with 2 Int?
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Problem is: I never seen a party with more than one Archer and the Animal Companion is not going to use a range weapon.There's no reason we can't create teamwork feats where one participant is the archer and the other is melee, and the feat provides useful benefits to both.
Please do not forget in all this flurry of feats ideas that a GREAT use of the AC for an archer is as a mount. ;-)
Jessica, I think the worry is that it might make people want to dip hunter just to get the share teamwork. After all, if you are a cavalier, drop one level and now all your teamwork feats bind to your mount, or any other class that has companions.After playing a little more this weekend, I have a slight suggestion.
What about moving Hunter's Tactics to 1st level? Keep the free Teamwork feats at 3rd and every 3 levels thereafter.
I don't see this being a balance issue. Without teamwork feats, this ability is worthless. But giving it at level 1 (along with lots of new teamwork feats) gives Hunter's more options, and likely, the ability to fill new niches earlier (depending on the chosen teamwork feats).
It's Jessie. I'm a boy :)
And I guess I didn't consider that because I don't often multiclass for the purpose of having a maximized character... it's a good point and I could see it being problematic.
Spell list of the Hunter must be modified for the same reason bard , inquisitor, achemist etc have specific lists :
for a 3/4 BAB progression and 6th level spell progression class, your spell list must fit perfectly.
A simple way to do it is : Hunter has access to druid and ranger spell lists, but it's not as fun as to have its own list.
I am fine with it being a druid's spell list and I would also be fine if they got rid of the spells all together for better HP/BA and better abilities as well.
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I am fine with it being a druid's spell list and I would also be fine if they got rid of the spells all together for better HP/BA and better abilities as well.
In my limited play tests, the Hit Die wasn't an issue, but BaB certainly was. To work in tandem with an AC I wanted a better "to hit" ratio. 3/4 kills this as well as locking out BaB based feats until later, essentially crippling this from being a strong melee/ranged combatant. The Animal Companion functions essentially like any other.
I think the Spell List could stay as is and increasing the BaB will help this class immensely. However, I will not start playtesting a build like this (full BaB) without having Paizo approve of it first (as much as I'd like to!). I think the updates are fairly spot on (AC with more oomph, better implemented Animal Focus, better weapons), but I really do wish BaB would be addressed somehow as well as the flavor that distinguishes this class (which is likely Hunter's Tactics, not Animal Focus).
And not to be a broken record, but unless there is a name change, I have to keep asking this: where is the Hunter? Basing this question on the flavor text and implied role and function.
I really do wish BaB would be addressed somehow
The ranger is just sitting there waiting for his favored enemy ability to fill in this gap. Something ala Shared Hunt back on page 3. Even if the bonus didn't apply to damage, it's a great thematic way to help the Hunter out while not being too rangery or slayery even while still clearly coming from the same place.
@Kainpen and Davick
I don't think that's the only concern though. With lower a BaB, access to some feats is restricted until later (like requiring a BaB of +6 for Clustered Shot, Many Shot, Snap Shot). This means that certain viable builds are not accessible until much later.
I don't think we need to emulate a favored enemy ability here, I'm completely okay with leaving that out in favor of the animal companion. But the issue I have right now is not only the lower chance to hit, but the feat progression being stifled until later levels.
And as I and others have pointed out, Sean said that increasing the BaB of this class would step on the ranger's toes, but I disagree as the only ranger abilities we're seeing right now is Track and Swift Tracker. We're giving up Favored Enemies, Favored Terrains, Combat Styles, Endurance, and a slew of other Ranger specific feats (not those that overlap with Druid). I'm pretty sure we're not even close to the toes of the Ranger at this point.
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Jessica, I think the worry is that it might make people want to dip hunter just to get the share teamwork. After all, if you are a cavalier, drop one level and now all your teamwork feats bind to your mount, or any other class that has companions.After playing a little more this weekend, I have a slight suggestion.
What about moving Hunter's Tactics to 1st level? Keep the free Teamwork feats at 3rd and every 3 levels thereafter.
I don't see this being a balance issue. Without teamwork feats, this ability is worthless. But giving it at level 1 (along with lots of new teamwork feats) gives Hunter's more options, and likely, the ability to fill new niches earlier (depending on the chosen teamwork feats).
It's Jessie. I'm a boy :)
And I guess I didn't consider that because I don't often multiclass for the purpose of having a maximized character... it's a good point and I could see it being problematic.
Sorry, I was tired and my brain transposed Jessie Sc some how into Jessica... I don't know why.
Me and my friend had that problem with the BaB and feats. he was picking our feats when we were brain storming the characters. When I went to actual put them on paper. I noticed we could not have a few of them without levels in fighter so we did two level dip in fighter. to make up and get improved critical at 10th level. That set up the team work feat at level 11/ 9th level hunter. Thanks to boon companion feat though and magical knack back ground trait we really did not lose much. we end up with 1 extra feat so we picked whatever, he choose toughness I chose combat casting.
Maybe it did not seem that bad because there was two hunters, and melee it did not seem that bad for us. The team work feats can quickly add to higher effectiveness, especial with cat companion, that pounces then grabs all in the same turn. Then we have bonus to hit the target because it is grappled. If it provoke aoo it sets off a whole bunch of them. From opportunist at +5 to hit, if one of us or the cat critical same thing happens. number of attacked can end up well into 9 or 10 around depending on haste. Maybe when they make somemore ranged team work feats it will do the same thing.
we can only wait and see I guess. I see this class actual having more issues with ranged attack over melee because animal companion are not capable of doing ranged attacks.
Excellent points for sure. However, as you pointed out, you had a higher BaB from Fighter dip and 2 extra feats. Not to mention, most parties will not have more than 1 Hunter in normal play (PFS excluded as that's random to a degree).
Quick observation: there are a bunch of traits in Ultimate Campaign called things like "Faith's Hunter" and "Hunter's Knack." All of them refer to the Ranger's favored enemy ability.
There is potential here for NEW players to think these are for the hunter class and get confused.
Just noting.
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Thanks for the playtest feedback and teamwork feat suggestions, I'm making notes of these.
This class could use a general note that levels in it count as druid or ranger levels for the purpose of feats, traits, and other options that modify or improve an animal companion.
Excellent points for sure. However, as you pointed out, you had a higher BaB from Fighter dip and 2 extra feats. Not to mention, most parties will not have more than 1 Hunter in normal play (PFS excluded as that's random to a degree).Me and my friend had that problem with the BaB and feats. he was picking our feats when we were brain storming the characters. When I went to actual put them on paper. I noticed we could not have a few of them without levels in fighter so we did two level dip in fighter. to make up and get improved critical at 10th level. That set up the team work feat at level 11/ 9th level hunter. Thanks to boon companion feat though and magical knack back ground trait we really did not lose much. we end up with 1 extra feat so we picked whatever, he choose toughness I chose combat casting.
Maybe it did not seem that bad because there was two hunters, and melee it did not seem that bad for us. The team work feats can quickly add to higher effectiveness, especial with cat companion, that pounces then grabs all in the same turn. Then we have bonus to hit the target because it is grappled. If it provoke aoo it sets off a whole bunch of them. From opportunist at +5 to hit, if one of us or the cat critical same thing happens. number of attacked can end up well into 9 or 10 around depending on haste. Maybe when they make somemore ranged team work feats it will do the same thing.
we can only wait and see I guess. I see this class actual having more issues with ranged attack over melee because animal companion are not capable of doing ranged attacks.
AND @Sean K Reynolds
Speaking of qualifying for feats, it would be nice if the Hunter could qualify for teamwork feats as though she had full base attack bonus.Though I still think it would also be nice to get bonuses to attack rolls in general (to move closer to the play style that this guy found but only reached by multiclassing into fighter for extra attack and taking feats so it did not hurt his casting and animal companion overmuch)
The bonus stats are a boring addition. Sure, mechanically they are nice, however what do they add to the concept of the class? I'd remove them entirely and add something for each aspect that exemplifies the animal and make it buff both the Hunter and the AC.
Bonus Teamwork feats: The Animal Companion should get to select a bonus teamwork feat when the Hunter does.
Design Manager
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Thanks for the playtest feedback and teamwork feat suggestions, I'm making notes of these.
This class could use a general note that levels in it count as druid or ranger levels for the purpose of feats, traits, and other options that modify or improve an animal companion.
Sean, isn't that supposed to be the case for all of the new classes? Shouldn't that be a general preface of advanced classes?
Sean, isn't that supposed to be the case for all of the new classes? Shouldn't that be a general preface of advanced classes?Thanks for the playtest feedback and teamwork feat suggestions, I'm making notes of these.
This class could use a general note that levels in it count as druid or ranger levels for the purpose of feats, traits, and other options that modify or improve an animal companion.
Seems like it has been trickling in, but so far there has been no blanket determination.
Things we know
Swashbucklers can take fighter feats and grit feats
Brawlers can take monk and fighter feats and act like monks for feats like stunning fist
Hunters can take ranger or druid feats but only for Animal Companion effects
Bloodragers can take rage feats
It has yet to be seen if Warpriests will get fighter feats or if Skalds will get the effects of bardic performance feats.
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Ok, so let's talk about fixing this, as there does not seem to be any real benefit to playing a Hunter over a Druid. I think the focus of the class is the pet, and there is a definite place for a class like that, so how much better can we make the pet before it gets excessive? Will doing that be enough to save the class?
The current Animal Companion chart starts out relatively strong at 2HD, but ultimately falls behind pretty quickly as they only level at about 3/4 of the speed of the their governing class combined with the fact that they are mainly just melee combatants who only receive 3/4 BAB.
Giving a second animal companion at some point around the time the pet begins to seriously fall behind is a possibility, but I think that opens the doors for action economy abuse and one player's turn taking significantly longer than anyone else's.
So, they should probably just have one pet that either levels faster, gets better BAB and attributes, or both.
What if Hunters had their own unique Animal Companion leveling charts, rather than using the Druid? They can still use the Druid companion stats as a base, they just get their own level chart, so maybe the animals get d10s and full BAB or they just gain the d8, 3/4 HD every level instead of 3/4 of them. Maybe they gain bonus Str/Dex (and maybe Con, too?) faster?
Another really minor ability that I'd really like to see that I think would add very little mechanically to worry about balancing, but would do a lot for "ease of play" and flavor is some way for the Hunter to ignore the trick subsystem and just have open communication with their companion. Just making their companion start with Int 3 and able to communicate fully with the Hunter and receive commands (and not need special training to fight undead, for example) would be huge for making the class more accessible.
Between this, the new teamwork feats being promised, and maybe the ability to count as a higher BAB for the extant Teamwork feats, I think you'd have, not a powerhouse exactly, but a class worthy of play that isn't just a Druid that gets bonus feats instead of Wildshape and 7th+ level spells.
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Thanks for the playtest feedback and teamwork feat suggestions, I'm making notes of these.
This class could use a general note that levels in it count as druid or ranger levels for the purpose of feats, traits, and other options that modify or improve an animal companion.
IIRC, there are VERY VERY FEW options (ie, not spells) out there in PFRPG (ie, non 3PP) that modify or improve an animal companion.
And before Animal Archive, there was almost none.
Having a class feature that actually enhance the pet rather than the Hunter would be perfect. Mind you, I am not talking about making it an eidolon. But a few things like more feats, better HDs, better stats, saves or BAB that a Hunter could permanently grant to his companion would be welcome.
I played a few encounters.
Animal Focus ability is not too bad, but too short. Especially out of combat while skil-boosting.
For adaptation ability like Ranger, I want more skill enhancing animal foci.
e.g.
-Goat-> Acrobat (Narrow and uneven surface)
-Cat-> Acrobat (falling)
-Lion-> Intimidate
-Newt-> Escape Artist
I played a few encounters.
Animal Focus ability is not too bad, but too short. Especially out of combat while skil-boosting.For adaptation ability like Ranger, I want more skill enhancing animal foci.
e.g.
-Goat-> Acrobat (Narrow and uneven surface)
-Cat-> Acrobat (falling)
-Lion-> Intimidate
-Newt-> Escape Artist
I kinda hate to suggest this because it means a bit more complicated rules around Animal Focus, but some of the uses seem suited to Immediate Reactions. For instance, your suggestion of Cat for falling would be a great immediate reaction (akin to feather fall's trigger) or Snake when hit with an attack of opportunity (but before the roll is made).
Just a thought to make the abilities a bit more versatile.
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Thanks for the playtest feedback and teamwork feat suggestions, I'm making notes of these.
This class could use a general note that levels in it count as druid or ranger levels for the purpose of feats, traits, and other options that modify or improve an animal companion.
IIRC, there are VERY VERY FEW options (ie, not spells) out there in PFRPG (ie, non 3PP) that modify or improve an animal companion.
And before Animal Archive, there was almost none.
Having a class feature that actually enhance the pet rather than the Hunter would be perfect. Mind you, I am not talking about making it an eidolon. But a few things like more feats, better HDs, better stats, saves or BAB that a Hunter could permanently grant to his companion would be welcome.
I'd like to second/expand on this idea - maybe take a few cues from the eiodolon-building and give the AC some different options they can choose from at certain levels.
Like maybe, 'animal talents' that the AC gain gain at every 2 or 4 levels.
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Ok, so let's talk about fixing this, as there does not seem to be any real benefit to playing a Hunter over a Druid. I think the focus of the class is the pet, and there is a definite place for a class like that, so how much better can we make the pet before it gets excessive? Will doing that be enough to save the class?
The current Animal Companion chart starts out relatively strong at 2HD, but ultimately falls behind pretty quickly as they only level at about 3/4 of the speed of the their governing class combined with the fact that they are mainly just melee combatants who only receive 3/4 BAB.
Giving a second animal companion at some point around the time the pet begins to seriously fall behind is a possibility, but I think that opens the doors for action economy abuse and one player's turn taking significantly longer than anyone else's.
So, they should probably just have one pet that either levels faster, gets better BAB and attributes, or both.
What if Hunters had their own unique Animal Companion leveling charts, rather than using the Druid? They can still use the Druid companion stats as a base, they just get their own level chart, so maybe the animals get d10s and full BAB or they just gain the d8, 3/4 HD every level instead of 3/4 of them. Maybe they gain bonus Str/Dex (and maybe Con, too?) faster?
Another really minor ability that I'd really like to see that I think would add very little mechanically to worry about balancing, but would do a lot for "ease of play" and flavor is some way for the Hunter to ignore the trick subsystem and just have open communication with their companion. Just making their companion start with Int 3 and able to communicate fully with the Hunter and receive commands (and not need special training to fight undead, for example) would be huge for making the class more accessible.
Between this, the new teamwork feats being promised, and maybe the ability to count as a higher BAB for the extant Teamwork feats, I think you'd have, not a powerhouse...
1. Have the hunter choose between ranged or melee focus for attacks just like the ranger.
2. Hunters can never have more than one animal companion due to the strong bonds between them.
3. Hunter's spells can be cast on the animal companion only (i.e. buff, heal, etc...)
4. In addition to normal animal progression the hunter's animal companion gains an additional hit die, +1 to attack, bonus to AC etc...
These are just my quick thoughts.
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How about having the hunter use a swift action to give his pet a boost dependent on level;
1. Armor Class and saving throws, or
2. Bonus to hit and damage
This along with specific spells that can only be cast on the pet (i.e. magic fang, barkskin, bless, cure light wounds, etc...)
Thoughts?
I think it'd be nice to expand on the share spells ability. As in, when the hunter, casts barkskin on herself, the animal companion also gains the benefit (could always have the CL be halved for purpose of duration and whatnot to not make it too OP).
I think it'd be nice to expand on the share spells ability. As in, when the hunter, casts barkskin on herself, the animal companion also gains the benefit (could always have the CL be halved for purpose of duration and whatnot to not make it too OP).How about having the hunter use a swift action to give his pet a boost dependent on level;
1. Armor Class and saving throws, or
2. Bonus to hit and damage
This along with specific spells that can only be cast on the pet (i.e. magic fang, barkskin, bless, cure light wounds, etc...)
Thoughts?
That would be great, one of the things to keep in mind is tracking resources. It's going to be a pain to have to track each spell's duration and calculate it separately for Hunter and companion. The easiest solution is just to have it affect them both for the same amount of time (and require that they be within 5 feet of each when casting).
What if Hunters had their own unique Animal Companion leveling charts, rather than using the Druid? They can still use the Druid companion stats as a base, they just get their own level chart, so maybe the animals get d10s and full BAB or they just gain the d8, 3/4 HD every level instead of 3/4 of them. Maybe they gain bonus Str/Dex (and maybe Con, too?) faster?
Another really minor ability that I'd really like to see that I think would add very little mechanically to worry about balancing, but would do a lot for "ease of play" and flavor is some way for the Hunter to ignore the trick subsystem and just have open communication with their companion. Just making their companion start with Int 3 and able to communicate fully with the Hunter and receive commands (and not need special training to fight undead, for example) would be huge for making the class more accessible.
Between this, the new teamwork feats being promised, and maybe the ability to count as a higher BAB for the extant Teamwork feats, I think you'd have, not a powerhouse...
Strong merit in this suggestion. For a pet based class, I would like their pet have a strong progression to match. For reference I would actually use the Summoner's Eidolon as the schematic. It'd be nice if Hunters had a telepathic bond to make the controlling the Animal Companion better.
If we're going to base the Class around the pet, why don't we use that other Class thats based around a pet as a reference right?
Beastlord!!!