Psionics and Pathfinder, New Quote from The Lead Designer


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Okay, recapping for everyone who wondered where the original thread went!

1) Paizo have stated they'd prefer to write their own system if they ever do anything resembling Psionics.

2) They have used some content from DS... erm, from Dreamscarred Press in at least one of their modules, reworking it so as not to require the complete Psionics system mechanics of PPs.

3) More than a few players would like to see Paizo embrace Dreamscarred Press' Psionics system in its entirety.

4) Everyone is agreed that the tickets for the James vs Jason PPV need to be made available soon, although the decision of whether they will be using conventional combat, magic, or psionics is still to be decided.


LazarX wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I'm going to prescribe some reading first. A short essay assignment will follow.
After reading that, I'm going to prescribe myself some Tyelenol.

You're a fast reader! :o

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matt Thomason wrote:

Okay, recapping for everyone who wondered where the original thread went!

1) Paizo have stated they'd prefer to write their own system if they ever do anything resembling Psionics.

2) They have used some content from DS... erm, from Dreamscarred Press in at least one of their modules, reworking it so as not to require the complete Psionics system mechanics of PPs.

3) More than a few players would like to see Paizo embrace Dreamscarred Press' Psionics system in its entirety.

4) Everyone is agreed that the tickets for the James vs Jason PPV need to be made available soon, although the decision of whether they will be using conventional combat, magic, or psionics is still to be decided.

It could be psion vs Tyrannosaur, but that would only mean that Jacobs would come as a Voth-augmented Tyran. (For those not in the know, the Voth are the sapient Dinosaurs encountered in Star Trek Voyager, and are among the latest set of baddies to appear in Star Trek Online.)


If they do make their own psionics, I hope they use the ki system.


Mikaze wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I think it's vitally important we clarify exactly what terminology we should use to describe what everyone agrees they did.
Define "is". ;)

Outrageous, Steve Geddes never used the word "is", he used "it's". Obviously, the definition of "it's" he was working from does not include "is". If you thought that it's="it is", you were obviously wrong in the context of Geddes' post.


It was poor form of dreamscarred press to use the title 'ultimate psionics'. They lost me there! Pity as they have done a good job of sticking to the 3.5 psionics base.

Liberty's Edge

Matt Thomason wrote:
4) Everyone is agreed that the tickets for the James vs Jason PPV need to be made available soon, although the decision of whether they will be using conventional combat, magic, or psionics is still to be decided.

Two developers enter, one developer leaves...


LazarX wrote:

Then again... MSNBC.

Fixed your typo for you ;-)


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insaneogeddon wrote:
It was poor form of dreamscarred press to use the title 'ultimate psionics'. They lost me there! Pity as they have done a good job of sticking to the 3.5 psionics base.

It is psionics and from what I have seen so far it looks to be the ultimate incarnation of them. What is poor form about that?


insaneogeddon wrote:
It was poor form of dreamscarred press to use the title 'ultimate psionics'. They lost me there! Pity as they have done a good job of sticking to the 3.5 psionics base.

While I admit I get a little turned off when I see "Ultimate" anything in a non-Paizo Pathfinder compatible product, due to feeling it's a cheap way to make a product appear more legitimate and associated with Paizo's own "Ultimate" range in people's minds rather than letting it stand on its own merits, I wouldn't go as far as to say "poor form".

From what I've seen of UP it's certainly good enough on its own merits to warrant a space on my shelf next to Paizo's own books.

Paizo had the opportunity to put a "You cannot use 'Ultimate' in your book titles" clause in the compatibility license if they didn't want other developers using it, and they didn't do that, so it's open for use if others wish to.


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Is it poor form for Paizo to use the names Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Race Guide, and Advanced Class Guide? Green Ronin used "Advanced" first and will be again.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

JJ has mentioned before that if Paizo were to put together a psionics subsystem, it would probably be called something else and probably wouldn't use power points. If you're a big psionics fan, you might want to factor that in to your requests.

-Skeld


That's sort of what the point of this post was :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James0235 wrote:
LazarX wrote:

Then again... MSNBC.

Fixed your typo for you ;-)

Comparing Rachael Maddows to Glenn Beck and the Vaporheads Fox uses for commentators is something I can't find a word to adequately describe.


\begin{CNN}
Hmm, people disagree about the validity of Fox and MSNBC. Is this a Good Thing, or a Bad Thing?
\end{CNN}

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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James0235 wrote:
Is it poor form for Paizo to use the names Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Race Guide, and Advanced Class Guide? Green Ronin used "Advanced" first and will be again.

No. This is silly. These people are friends but also business people too. Paizo consistently uses the Advanced Bestiary and the Tome of Horrors, and has raised the profile of those two products enormously. They have praised the products publicly. A large number of the staff are backers on the Kickstarter.

The decisions on the names of those products were made to effectively communicate what the product is about in clear concise terms, and also in a way that was just slightly catchy so that the potential customer would remember them.

If anything the synergy in the titles only serves to help both companies.

You should understand, Paizo wants Green Ronin to succeed with their product. Its good for both companies. Paizo gets an updated resource they can get use from a developer they have confidence in. The game itself is strengthened. Paizo has another cool book to sell in their store. The Pathfinder brand is enriched.


I agree it is silly. Just as silly as suggesting that DSP's use of Ultimate is poor form.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

James0235 wrote:
I agree it is silly. Just as silly as suggesting that DSP's use of Ultimate is poor form.

Yes. Sorry. I grant you that too. I mean honestly, if Paizo was actually going to name a book "Ultimate Psychic Magic" I would fall out of my chair. Because that would be an awkward and clumsy title and not their style. So I see no need to fret about "Ultimate Psionics".


Seems like it'd be an advanced topic, so it'd the Advanced prefix.

Plus, then it'd acronym-collide with the Advanced Player's Guide, and we all know how much James loves that.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Cheapy wrote:

Seems like it'd be an advanced topic, so it'd the Advanced prefix.

Plus, then it'd acronym-collide with the Advanced Player's Guide, and we all know how much James loves that.

APMG?

NQAAADPV?*

*

Spoiler:
Not quite as awesome as Dreamscarred Press' Verison? ;-)

Silver Crusade

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Cheapy wrote:

Seems like it'd be an advanced topic, so it'd the Advanced prefix.

Plus, then it'd acronym-collide with the Advanced Player's Guide, and we all know how much James loves that.

Yeah, that would lead to Ultimate Confusion!


It's not like if Paizo was the first company to ever use "Ultimate x" as the title of a 3.X product. Mongoose Publishing was the company I associated with that styling before Paizo began using it, and considering I wasn't a big fan of their products, I personally wish Paizo would have used some other type of title.

Anyway, it's certainly not poor form for Dreamscarred Press to use the same type of title.


Matt Thomason wrote:
insaneogeddon wrote:
It was poor form of dreamscarred press to use the title 'ultimate psionics'. They lost me there! Pity as they have done a good job of sticking to the 3.5 psionics base.
While I admit I get a little turned off when I see "Ultimate" anything in a non-Paizo Pathfinder compatible product, due to feeling it's a cheap way to make a product appear more legitimate and associated with Paizo's own "Ultimate" range in people's minds rather than letting it stand on its own merits, I wouldn't go as far as to say "poor form".

Personally, I equate "Ultimate X" with HERO Games. I've heard people around here say they want an "Ultimate Skill", and I keep thinking, "There already is one of those."


Distant Scholar wrote:


Personally, I equate "Ultimate X" with HERO Games. I've heard people around here say they want an "Ultimate Skill", and I keep thinking, "There already is one of those."

Oh there have been plenty of "Ultimate" books around over the years, but there's a difference between it being any RPG book and a book designed for Pathfinder.

Like I said though, if Paizo were concerned they could have added a clause to the compatibility license. They didn't, so it's probably safe to surmise they're not concerned - and if they're not, I don't see any reason we should be either.

Liberty's Edge

Matt Thomason wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:


Personally, I equate "Ultimate X" with HERO Games. I've heard people around here say they want an "Ultimate Skill", and I keep thinking, "There already is one of those."

Oh there have been plenty of "Ultimate" books around over the years, but there's a difference between it being any RPG book and a book designed for Pathfinder.

Like I said though, if Paizo were concerned they could have added a clause to the compatibility license. They didn't, so it's probably safe to surmise they're not concerned - and if they're not, I don't see any reason we should be either.

I am going to agree, if Paizo had an objection I sure that they would have made it known. I have been really impressed with Dreamscarred press' books so far.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Steve Geddes wrote:
I think it's vitally important we clarify exactly what terminology we should use to describe what everyone agrees they did.

I can help with that! I'll clarify the word "use."

When we use Open Game Content from Dreamscarred Press (or any other publisher), we use the OGL, and that means we use "use" in the same sense of "use" that the OGL uses:

"Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted of Open Game Content, which is defined as the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content, and means any work covered by the OGL, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product Identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content.

You know—use.

Do not ask me what "potation" means.

Shadow Lodge

Vic Wertz wrote:
Do not ask me what "potation" means.

potation |pōˈtā sh ən|

noun archaic or humorous
a drink.
• the action of drinking something, esp. alcohol : I intend to abstain from potation.


TOZ wrote:
I intend to abstain from potation.

Why would you do that?!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why wouldn't you?


I thought it was street lingo.

"Yo, gettin' back and forf from dat dungeon to dat tavern wuz wicked full of doze random 'counters so it's good dat wizard gots him some potation spells now. Poof. We dere, homie... 'less there's an accident. Den we's in a cavern 'stead of a tavern, prolly wit a Shoggoth."


Vic Wertz wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I think it's vitally important we clarify exactly what terminology we should use to describe what everyone agrees they did.

I can help with that! I claim the word "use."

When we use Open Game Content from Dreamscarred Press (or any other publisher), we use the OGL, and that means we used "use" in the same sense of "use" that the OGL uses:

"Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted of Open Game Content, which is defined as the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content, and means any work covered by the OGL, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product Identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content.

Thank God for lawyers.

(I figure that sentence should be dusted off and used every once in a while).

Dark Archive

Cheapy wrote:
Are wrote:
137ben wrote:
Uh, you do realize that they have already used DSP psionics in modules, right?

In which ones?

Dragon's Demand.

Welp, time to throw money at Paizo again it seems.

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