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Okay, I've just played Bonekeep 1, and it's everything it's supposed to be. Awesome.
What that means is that people have complained enough that they got what they wanted--a hard scenario with absolutely no roleplay.
Okay.
But now it's time for the other half. We want a roleplay-only scenario. All skill checks, no combat.
If agitating on the boards is how we get these things done, then let's agitate on the boards. C'mon, folks, let's do this.
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How would that work? One of the selling points of bonekeep is that it's designed to be difficult and kill off characters. If there's no combat, where's the threat? All social encounters means that you'll live no matter what.
Your psuedo british accent slipped!
Mahahahahahahahah!
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How would that work? One of the selling points of bonekeep is that it's designed to be difficult and kill off characters. If there's no combat, where's the threat? All social encounters means that you'll live no matter what.
I gather you have never played at my table. I'd estimate 25% of the character deaths I've overseen have resulted from social encounters, by which I mean deaths resulting from someone botching a skill check or making an unwise move in a social skill situation that then leads to combat or (as written into at least one Season 0 scenario*) death by GM fiat.
Give us the Bonekeep of roleplaying.
Didn't we already have this conversation? I could reveal my terrifying plans, but I find roleplaying scenes can be better if there's a surprise involved.
Anywho, consider the difficulty of GMing and playing through all of that scenario in a limited time slot**.
GM: Hey! Everyone ready to play through the Ruins of Diplomikeep, Part 1?
Players: Whoooo! Yeah!
GM: Alright, scene one begins…
[five hours of role-play later]
GM: We have to end there, as time's been called. Here are your Chronicle sheets.
Player: That was so fun! Hey! Why did we get no gold?
GM: You never even finished the first encounter. You spent the whole time racking up circumstance bonuses by complimenting the duchess's drapes and talking about grandchildren.
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Patrick I can think of a few scenarios that land in the "role playing " side of things.
How about the "dissapeared?" or the "Blackross Matrimony?" or the "Hellknight's feast?"
And one thing I enjoy about some of the season 5 scenarios is that depending on how you interact with the NPCs, the scenario can go one way or another....things can devolve into a fight, or you can negotiate your way past......
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Didn't we already have this conversation? I could reveal my terrifying plans, but I find roleplaying scenes can be better if there's a surprise involved.
Yes ... and in the post you just linked to, you said, "With a degree of seriousness, while I love scenarios that reward/promote roleplaying, at this time I have no plans to create a no-combat adventure as part of the regular scenario rotation."
So I'm asking you to make those plans. :)
No, this is not a good reason to make it a double-length scenario.
So call it a module, and tell people it takes as long as it takes. It'll be just like the Thornkeep modules.
(Well, some of them. Sanctum of a Lost Age, for instance.)
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An entire RP scenario doesn't necessarily have to have player death as the high stakes... maybe some sort of courtroom scenario, where the PCs have to gather evidence and such, one of them has to be the defense for a Venture Captain?
First, I'm not sure many players would actually want to succeed.
Second, how exactly would that work out for six people in a four hour slot and would it be interesting for anyone who wasn't a bard?
This isn't really the Bard Society. Most VCs would be better off hiring a lawyer.
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An entire RP scenario doesn't necessarily have to have player death as the high stakes... maybe some sort of courtroom scenario, where the PCs have to gather evidence and such, one of them has to be the defense for a Venture Captain?
"That man is guilty! He sent me into a dragons lair without telling me what type of dragon, and 2 pathfiniders died because they bought the wrong resistance type. He took half of my loot for "expenses"... AFTER making those party members pay for their own funerals, and ordered us to lower the rogue into a privy with a rope so he could retrieve the smithing tyre, and ordered us to kill perfectly innocent sentient beings to steal their stuff!
"Aren't you council for the defense?"
"...dammit."
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However, social situations that lead to combat usually aren't that fatal. It may just be my gaming group, but even in scenarios that have a succed at diplomacy combat check, the parties are usually so optimized for combat that they minimize the risk of death from these encounters.
Sounds like someone needs to challenge the true final boss of The Night March of Kalkamedes.
However, social situations that lead to combat usually aren't that fatal. It may just be my gaming group, but even in scenarios that have a succed at diplomacy combat check, the parties are usually so optimized for combat that they minimize the risk of death from these encounters.Sounds like someone needs to challenge the true final boss of The Night March of Kalkamedes.
LF challenge mode group for Night March of Kalkamedes. Must have be at least 11th level and have a WBL of at least 82k.
Unfortunately, it can be hard to measure roleplay and that involves more DM fiat than anything mechanical. Also rolling for diplomacy still qualifies as rollplay I'd think.
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I love roleplay, but I'm not sure I would want all roleplay with no combat. Paizo is doing a good job mixing up the scenarios recently, they're creating more roleplay orientated scenarios.
Also you have to remember that roleplay scenarios don't appeal to everyone. And that they don't translate well in noisy locations or 4 hour time slots.
But yeah, I hope Paizo continues to create scenarios with great storylines and roleplaying in them.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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How would that work? One of the selling points of bonekeep is that it's designed to be difficult and kill off characters. If there's no combat, where's the threat? All social encounters means that you'll live no matter what.I gather you have never played at my table. I'd estimate 25% of the character deaths I've overseen have resulted from social encounters, by which I mean deaths resulting from someone botching a skill check or making an unwise move in a social skill situation that then leads to combat or (as written into at least one Season 0 scenario*) death by GM fiat.
Yeah, you almost killed my Cleric this way in The Cyphermage Dilemma at Dragon*Con 2012. Apparently, when you want to Gather Information about where the pirate hideout is, you shouldn't just go around asking where to find work as a pirate. You won't like what you find.
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Perhaps a solution to the 4 hour question regarding roleplay is to include suggested convention time marks in scenarios. Essentially, what I would envision is a bit at the start that informs them that, if the table is time-limited, they should spend X minutes on Act 1, Y minutes on Act 2, etc.
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For me, at least, roleplay is exhausting. Prepping up scenarios, thinking about character back story, coming up with voices if applicable, and then being in character for that amount of time during the game is mentally exhausting. I love the combat encounters in roleplay-heavy scenarios because it gives my brain a break.
The prep work and mental strength needed for a Diplomikeep-type scenario makes me exhausted already. There'd need to be a 30 minute break for the players and GM to take a nap.
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For me, at least, roleplay is exhausting. Prepping up scenarios, thinking about character back story, coming up with voices if applicable, and then being in character for that amount of time during the game is mentally exhausting. I love the combat encounters in roleplay-heavy scenarios because it gives my brain a break.
The prep work and mental strength needed for a Diplomikeep-type scenario makes me exhausted already. There'd need to be a 30 minute break for the players and GM to take a nap.
+1
Eyes of the Ten includes a lot of RP opportunities and combined with the complex higher level combats makes running that series the equivalent of prepping for finals.
Making a mistake in combat can be easily glossed over and players may never even notice. Screwing up role playing is usually easily noticeable and often has a bigger impact at the table. Besides, there's plenty of RP heavy scenarios out there. You just need a good GM to bring them to life.
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Okay, I've just played Bonekeep 1, and it's everything it's supposed to be. Awesome.
What that means is that people have complained enough that they got what they wanted--a hard scenario with absolutely no roleplay.
Okay.
But now it's time for the other half. We want a roleplay-only scenario. All skill checks, no combat.
If agitating on the boards is how we get these things done, then let's agitate on the boards. C'mon, folks, let's do this.
You need to have a look at the Legend of the Five Rings organized-play campaign, Sprit of Bushido: plenty of role-playing-only scenarios.
And you can absolutely die in them!... so they're challenging ;)
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So my thing is this:
I am INTENTIONALLY skipping Bonekeep. I do not enjoy combat grinds, with no little to no payout. Players who do not like to "Roleplay grind" as I would like to call it, they can skip episodes.
So a Roleplayers "Bonekeep" can run in the same slot as regular Bonekeep. Roleplayers muster to the left, and Diceplayers can muster to the right. All the players win, and the GM's get to choose which style they want to run through instead of being forced to sit out a game because it's not their style.
I love The Hellknight's Feast, The Blakros Matrimony, and The Immortal Conundrum. Roleplay stories work, but it's a 'PITA' to still have to run through a combat section on top of having a fun RP session!
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I feel that it is also in the consideratioof how the gms want to react to the situation. In one scenario, I had bluffed my way out of 4/5 combat situations. In another, my social skills was useless, as the gm was adamant on pushing combat, saying that there was no way around it but drawing blades. So unless specifically scripted into each scenario that there is a way around combat, much of this will be pushed aside if the gm aims for blades rather than face.
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Yeah, you almost killed my Cleric this way in The Cyphermage Dilemma at Dragon*Con 2012. Apparently, when you want to Gather Information about where the pirate hideout is, you shouldn't just go around asking where to find work as a pirate. You won't like what you find.How would that work? One of the selling points of bonekeep is that it's designed to be difficult and kill off characters. If there's no combat, where's the threat? All social encounters means that you'll live no matter what.I gather you have never played at my table. I'd estimate 25% of the character deaths I've overseen have resulted from social encounters, by which I mean deaths resulting from someone botching a skill check or making an unwise move in a social skill situation that then leads to combat or (as written into at least one Season 0 scenario*) death by GM fiat.
Ha, that was a good time. I remember your aasimar cleric (level 2, perhaps) getting drawn into a crime ring that tried to get you to kill off an implicitly innocent informant in exchange for a successful gather information check. That also involved several of my favorite spontaneously created NPCs (the pair of thugs whom the others hired for information).
I don't think I've ever had a group more eager to leave Riddleport before nightfall.