Few players on the forums*. And even that's not quite accurate. We're a horribly inaccurate group to pull data from :-)
Yes we are.
I think someone else was saying just recently, that as mocked as the fighter and monk is, you can easily find people playing them (and constantly) if you step out of the optimization forums. lol.
I know one player that really dislikes them as weak sauce, but others that swear they can make them work (core monks) and like them.
Monk vs. brawler showdown, coming soon.
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I think something people are missing is this: Brawler makes no mention of Flurry, ONLY the unarmed damage. Flurry will always set them apart. I think they will be distinctly different and both have useful roles. I'm excited, but my monk will remain a monk.Of course they don't have Flurry. They don't need it. Flurry is a substitute for full BAB.
Hehehe
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Yes we are.
I think someone else was saying just recently, that as mocked as the fighter and monk is, you can easily find people playing them (and constantly) if you step out of the optimization forums. lol.
I know one player that really dislikes them as weak sauce, but others that swear they can make them work (core monks) and like them.
Monk vs. brawler showdown, coming soon.
I love Monks. I find them super fun and I can make some pretty good ones.
Doesn't stop me from realizing how horribad they are compared to other options.
I was legitimately sad for a minute after I realized that with only two actual Monk levels and relatively little effort I could make a character more effective than a previous Monk I had that I spent HOURS (spread over a number of weeks) of time on, with a lot of help from other people.
And I'm not talking just "Ooh, more damage". Comparable saves (Brawler 9/MoMS Sacred Mountain Monk 2/Trapper Ranger 2), more options since he had a metric f$&%load of Feats and only needed a few, similar skills (though this one was due to a houserule giving Fighters 4+Int skills), etc.
Quite sad really. And I could still do a helluva lot better with a Barbarian. =/
And I could still do a helluva lot better with a Barbarian. =/
Indeed you could.
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nah, the original ability is "meh" at lower levels and worthless at mid to high levels. The teleportation subschool is usefull at lower levels and totally fantastic at midto high levels.@Nicos: No you are going to far. The vanilla conjuration school is usually better at lower levels.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Fyi, brawlers got flurry.
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I think brawlers should get a special 1 round of rage. Only activated if they get a flurry of misses.
"I was meant to be better than all monks and never miss, ARRRRGH DAMN IT!"
I think something people are missing is this: Brawler makes no mention of Flurry, ONLY the unarmed damage. Flurry will always set them apart. I think they will be distinctly different and both have useful roles. I'm excited, but my monk will remain a monk.
The brawler has "brawler’s flurry" which works just like flurry of blows.
Does it boost their AB like the monk's flurry does or does it just give them TWF style attacks?
Just gives them TWFing style attacks.
But they already have full BaB, so it's the same effect.
When doing so, a brawler is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with unarmed strikes or weapons with the “monk” special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.
A brawler applies her full Strength bonus to her damage rolls for all successful attacks made with brawler’s flurry, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of brawler’s flurry. A brawler with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of brawler’s flurry, nor can she make natural attacks in addition to her brawler’s flurry attacks.
At 8th level, the brawler is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler’s flurry. At 15th level, the brawler is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler’s flurry.
When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
As you can see, they are identical in mechanics in every way, except that the Brawler gets it at 2nd level, while the Monk gets it at 1st level and that the Monk treats his BAB as equal to his Monk level, while the Brawler already has full BAB. They get the same number of attacks, the same increase in attacks at the same levels, the same weapon restrictions, the same '1-weapon flurry' ability etc.
Between granting the Brawler Flurry, Ki Strike, scaling AC bonus and increased damage dice, they really couldn't have done much more to step on the Monks toes if they had tried (which I suspect they did).
Brawler have full BAB, their flurry is much like TWF.Does it boost their AB like the monk's flurry does or does it just give them TWF style attacks?I think something people are missing is this: Brawler makes no mention of Flurry, ONLY the unarmed damage. Flurry will always set them apart. I think they will be distinctly different and both have useful roles. I'm excited, but my monk will remain a monk.The brawler has "brawler’s flurry" which works just like flurry of blows.
Except it's not. Two-Weapon Fighting requires two weapons to use. Brawler's Flurry doesn't require two weapons to use, just like the Monk.