Psionics: any gotchas?

[Tamago]

I have a player who is interested in playing a Psionic character (using the Dreamscarred Press Psionics Unleashed rules).

Is there anything I need to be aware of before letting him play a psionic character? How well does the system interact with normal Pathfinder rules? Are there any "gotchas" or especially potent combos that I should be aware of? Any particularly confusing rules that I need to know as a GM?

For the most part, I trust my players to know what their characters can do and know the rules that apply to them. I know this guy wouldn't intentionally cheat, but I'm not at all familiar with the psionics rules, so I want to know if there's anything I need to watch out for.

If it makes a difference, the game we're gearing up for is Reign of Winter.

Thanks!

[Kryzbyn]

When augmenting a power, you can not spend more in total (base cost + augment cost) than your Manifester Level.

Easy to overlook and accidentally abuse.

[MrSin]

Helps to read up a bit yourself, maybe borrow a book off him if you can.

The main thing is that he's limited by his minister level(psionic caster level thing) in how many power points he can use at a time and he can't use 2 sources of power points to power one power. So if he is 6th level with 30 power points, he can only use up to six power points at a time. I've met a lot of people who miss this, and it explodes.

Just like with any other spell caster, gotta' read the fine print on your spells/powers and abilities. Any idea what they're playing?

[LazarX]

There are a lot of gotchas. You really need to get into deep reading of the rulseset. Most of the players who call for psionics know what they're capable of and they can run pretty heavily over an unprepared GM.

Keep in mind that Psionic characters are extremely powerful if your campaign does not penalise nova strategies. (in other words, if your adventures typically one combat a day)

Read up on and enforce the rules strictly, especially the ones on the manifester level cap in point spending on powers. Psionic characters can pretty much replicate the effects of empower and intensify without feat expenditure. Your player will probably pick the Overchannel feat if he's a blaster type. Read up on it.

Dreamscarred did a good job on meshing the system with Pathfinder, but that only mitigated it's exploitability to a certain extent. The rest is pretty much on you.

[MrSin]

Tamago wrote:

How well does the system interact with normal Pathfinder rules?

It does pretty well I think. Treat spell resistance like power resistance and you should be good. If not psionics tend to be a lot more powerful.

[Jamie Charlan]

If you tell us what class he wants we can tell you tons.

Overall, nothing he does is going to be as much of a worry as what the Cleric/Wizard/Druids/theusualreally can do, even as a full Psion.

HOWEVER, they ARE different classes, they DO have different tricks and abilities, and so you CAN get caught quite off-guard. Kinda like how so many people [and adventure paths] call "up the normal AC a few points" an increase in difficulty and then wonder why nothing changed at all for the gunslinger or ray-slinger.

When everyone knows the rules well though, they're very nicely balanced... one warning though; classes in the middle do make the really bad stuff in core look really bad. Core's got the most broken stuff BOTH ways after all. Sorry rogues, Cryptics be pretty cool.

[Kimera757]

Tamago wrote:

I have a player who is interested in playing a Psionic character (using the Dreamscarred Press Psionics Unleashed rules).

Is there anything I need to be aware of before letting him play a psionic character? How well does the system interact with normal Pathfinder rules? Are there any "gotchas" or especially potent combos that I should be aware of? Any particularly confusing rules that I need to know as a GM?

For the most part, I trust my players to know what their characters can do and know the rules that apply to them. I know this guy wouldn't intentionally cheat, but I'm not at all familiar with the psionics rules, so I want to know if there's anything I need to watch out for.

If it makes a difference, the game we're gearing up for is Reign of Winter.

Thanks!

There aren't gotchas, exactly. Psionics is pretty balanced 3.5 and afterward. However, there are things you need to know, as inaccurate readings of the rules results in OPness.

There's the manifester level limit, as mentioned above. It's equal to your manifester (caster) level. There's a few ways to go beyond that, but they're always ways such as "+2 manifester levels".

You can only use power points from one source for a power. When using power points from an "outside source", such as a gray ioun stone or a crystal capacitor, you can only use those power points. A gray ioun stone gives only one power point, so you can manifest an unaugmented 1st-level power with it.

[wraithstrike]

1. You should learn the rules of any subsystem before allowing it in your game. Allowing the rules will prevent claims of "this is broken", when the problem is rules were missed.

2. Psionics is just like magic. It just uses power points instead of spell slots, and instead of having a dominate person, and a dominate monster, you would just get dominate, and you can spend more power points to have it affect creatures that are not humanoid<----just one example of how augment works.

[Jamie Charlan]

Power Point Augmentation follows the manifester limit [TOTAL PP one wants to spend] but an important part of this is that you're no longer "casting a 1st level spell". You're going to have to remember that when someone complains that the third level power is now acting like a 6th level spell just because the manifester put in an extra 13PP in there [18's just over a 9th level slot in resource use].

This is also that specific power's manifester level, NOT your highest or the total. If I learned energy missile as a fifth level kineticist and then gain twelve levels of psychic warrior, my energy missile can only be cast with a total of 5PPs.

Where Magic Missile, Fireball and friends all gain damage dice just for being a higher level caster, you pay for this, actively, dynamically, with psionic powers. Powers don't get a free ride in most cases. Those that do are already more expensive and higher level than the exact-same-thing in a real caster's repertoire.

[Zhayne]

The important two have already been said ... the Metapsionic Cap and Psionics/Magic Transparency.

Also, do bear in mind, that if the player does find a broken element or combo (not just in psionics, but anywhere in the game), you aren't obligated to have to deal with it just because you didn't say no the first time. Just politely tell him 'that's too powerful, pick something else for that power/feat/whatever'.

[LazarX]

Jamie Charlan wrote:

Where Magic Missile, Fireball and friends all gain damage dice just for being a higher level caster, you pay for this, actively, dynamically, with psionic powers. Powers don't get a free ride in most cases. Those that do are already more expensive and higher level than the exact-same-thing in a real caster's repertoire.

Psionics don't get a free ride, but they're not being jacked either. Along with the extra dice, they are also getting DC bumps, 1 per 2d6 of damage they buy. They essentially get the combination of intensify and heighten metamagic feats for that cost. Add overchannel to that and it's empower on top of that.

[Jamie Charlan]

I would certainly not go so far as to call Overchannel Empower.
Empower hurts a bit more at the other end than yours.

[MrSin]

LazarX wrote:

Jamie Charlan wrote:

Where Magic Missile, Fireball and friends all gain damage dice just for being a higher level caster, you pay for this, actively, dynamically, with psionic powers. Powers don't get a free ride in most cases. Those that do are already more expensive and higher level than the exact-same-thing in a real caster's repertoire.

Psionics don't get a free ride, but they're not being jacked either. Along with the extra dice, they are also getting DC bumps, 1 per 2d6 of damage they buy. They essentially get the combination of intensify and heighten metamagic feats for that cost. Add overchannel to that and it's empower on top of that.

They essentially have to use heighten to make their abilities scale at all though, and overchannel has limitations. To use actual metapsionic powers you have to expend your psionic focus so your not going to be spamming metamagic too often either.

This is Overchannel btw, it raises your manifester level temporarily at the cost of hurting you. It has a scaling cap on how high you can raise it, and you have to pay more power points which eats into your effective spells per day limit.

And this is Psionic Focus. You expend it to use certain powers. Usually you'll only get one psionic focus per combat because of the action economy, but there's a feat chain that makes it easier to use more often.

[chaoseffect]

MrSin wrote:

And this is Psionic Focus. You expend it to use certain powers. Usually you'll only get one psionic focus per combat because of the action economy, but there's a feat chain that makes it easier to use more often.

For a pure "caster" Psion, Psionic Focus isn't too much of an issue. Psionic Meditation has no prerequisite besides 4 skill ranks in Autohypnosis and let's you regain your focus as a move action. It's pretty much a feat tax for every psionic character.

[MrSin]

chaoseffect wrote:

MrSin wrote:

And this is Psionic Focus. You expend it to use certain powers. Usually you'll only get one psionic focus per combat because of the action economy, but there's a feat chain that makes it easier to use more often.

For a pure "caster" Psion, Psionic Focus isn't too much of an issue. Psionic Meditation has no prerequisite besides 4 skill ranks in Autohypnosis and let's you regain your focus as a move action. It's pretty much a feat tax for every psionic character.

I like taking psicrystal affinity and containment with it if I can. 3 feats long, but being able to burn your focus without expending it is great for martials and being able to burn your focus twice in a round is great to be able to do at all! Full round action to bring back both focuses too.

[Stormhierta]

If you have specific questions, feel welcome over to our forums at www.dreamscarredpress.com - otherwise I think I can answer most.

The Manifester Level Cap and Transparency are, as said before, the main things to be aware of. Psionic focus and Energy powers can use some reading up on incase your player will be using alot of those.

Best regards
- Andreas Rönnqvist
Dreamscarred Press

[Mortag1981]

A lot of people have already said it, but be sure that you read the rules, particularly those governing archetypes. There's a lot of neat synergy that Psionics can bring to a "traditional" group, and knowing what they're capable of will be key to making sure things don't get out of hand.

[chaoseffect]

MrSin wrote:

I like taking psicrystal affinity and containment with it if I can. 3 feats long, but being able to burn your focus without expending it is great for martials and being able to burn your focus twice in a round is great to be able to do at all! Full round action to bring back both focuses too.

I never really considered going that route just because when I played a Psion I felt so feat starved... just too many metapsionics and discipline specific powers from other disciplines I had to have. I think I went the other route around that and took the feat that lets you spend extra power points to keep your focus, so you could use two metapsionics at once. One less feat, but burned more resources.

[MrSin]

chaoseffect wrote:

MrSin wrote:

I like taking psicrystal affinity and containment with it if I can. 3 feats long, but being able to burn your focus without expending it is great for martials and being able to burn your focus twice in a round is great to be able to do at all! Full round action to bring back both focuses too.

I never really considered going that route just because when I played a Psion I felt so feat starved... just too many metapsionics and discipline specific powers from other disciplines I had to have. I think I went the other route around that and took the feat that lets you spend extra power points to keep your focus, so you could use two metapsionics at once. One less feat, but burned more resources.

Metapsionic Mastery. I always felt power point starved myself, but I think I'm also just a little paranoid. I also really liked having a pet rock. To be fair, its a really awesome pet rock!

[Tamago]

Thanks, everybody! I knew about the manifester level limit on PP spent at a time, but not about the "two sources of power" thing. And thanks for raising all of the stuff you did; it gives me lots to think about!

MrSin wrote:

Just like with any other spell caster, gotta' read the fine print on your spells/powers and abilities. Any idea what they're playing?

He's told me that he wants to play a Psion. The character creation session is on Sunday, so we'll figure out the rest then.