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John and Mike, in another thread it was pointed out that many players are rude to VC's during their briefings. VC's do not seem to do anythng for the PC's except be rude and condescending to them. This is partially due to the fact that VC's are not tied to the Pathfinders in any way.
Perhaps vanities could be offered like Protégé of x venture captain
For instance Protégé of Avarm Zey could grant the Protégé a 50% discount in scribing spells into their spell book from the library in absolam.
Protégé of Sheila Heidmark cold gain +2 to knowledge local and knowledge history of Varsia for using the Heidmark library.
Also the VC's could not act like asshats toward level 7 to 11 characters
not a good idea to disrespect high level casters who could turn you into a pile of ash if you piss them off or high level paladins and clerics that could cost the society politically when said cleric or Paladin reports to their hierarchy on how they are treated by the VC.
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You have to keep in mind many of the VC's you meet were adventurers to begin with. Thats how 99 percent of Venture Captains come into existence. Now think about all the higher level characters you meet and how many of them were curt /sarcastic other to the npcs they encountered.
Each VC would of been purchasing a bucket load of items.. potions.. scrolls belts etc, just for a poorly equipped fellow party member who didnt bother listening to the briefing to complain that he couldnt hurt X because he didnt have a ranged weapon!. So the future VC supplies the character with one. There is no thankyou.. no pleasantries.
Thus the bitterness that dwells in the soul of the VC is born.
VC's often send characters to their deaths. Unlike the CN Barbarian or 2D character in the party with no backhistory , VC's have psyches that wear down leaving them with disorders and personality traits which are best tied to where their lodge is located.
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If my players are rude to the person giving them their mission, they may find the VC much less willing to provide helpful information. There's always another, more polite, team of Pathfinders willing to do missions, and recover bodies. As for direct retaliation, many low level PCs aren't worth the VC's time, and many higher level characters didn't get that way by being stupid.
Long story short, if you're rude to me at the table by interrupting my box text and disrespecting the NPC giving you quests, I'll stop inviting you to sit at my table.
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Send the party into a dismal swamp full of biting flies and mosquitoes with an encrypted message. When its delivered, they're kept waiting for three days with no food but hard tack and boiled swamp water. After that their contact gives the return reply.
"Knight to queen bishop 3. Tell that old codger i've got him this time!"
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Mystic Lemur,
I understand not inviting back players who are rude. But I think framing the issue in that light misses the issue that there are players who feel that the attitude of the Society (as represented by the VCs in-game) is one of not valuing the player characters. You actually reinforce this idea in your post. As much as it may seem alien to some people, players are much more likely to feel connected to and invested in the storyline and NPCs if they feel their own characters matter. If their characters are appreciated.
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If they don't like working for the Society, then why are they Pathfinders? If I hate my job, that doesn't give me a right to be rude to my boss. If I'm rude to my boss, I shouldn't expect to be welcomed with open arms the next day at work. If being a Pathfinder is important enough for them to stick around when they don't like the "management" then why would they risk being fired by being rude to their boss? Saying "It's what my character would do" doesn't cut it.
I play a Shadow Lodge character who doesn't trust anyone who claims to have "authority" over him, but I never express that in a disruptive way OOC. All I ask is that players do the same.
I do see that I may have misunderstood the OP. If the question is about why the VC is rude to Pathfinders, then I can't really attest to that. With the exception of Aram Zey's equal-opportunity disdain, and Drandle Dreng's odd hours, I've never read a scenario where the VC was anything less that professional unless provoked.
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It would be kind of funny if the GM turns it into a joke.
"You're clearly not cut out for this mission. Forget the whole thing! We'll find some other Pathfinders who are up for the challenge and are willing to be a little more grateful." The VC waves you off, 0 exp, 0 prestige today. Thanks guyz.
Watch what happens and let them flounder a bit before you laugh it up and retcon.
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With the exception of Aram Zey's equal-opportunity disdain, and Drandle Dreng's odd hours, I've never read a scenario where the VC was anything less that professional unless provoked.
Here are some spoiler-free quotes from the briefing of Venture Captain Dennel Hamshanks, in #2-23, Shadow's Last Stand 1: At Shadow's Door.
“You lot again? The Decemvirate promised better, but I suppose we have no time to waste."
"Not likely you lot were ever invited, though. Needed to be of the presentable sort, after all."
How about everyone's favorite, Lady Heidmarch? I can't decide which annoys me more, her
Some of the VCs are very nice to PCs. Some of them are douchebags.
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I dunno. None of the players around here like Drendle. He never waits to invite them to breakfast but calls them in at odd hours while they are trying to sleep off their carousing.
Thence that tweaks most players is Osprey, who they regard as NOTHING but trouble. He shows up,they automatically that somewhere there is a dead Pathfinder lying in a ditch
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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To be fair, the statement in cultist kiss is a literary reference ("The Importance of Being Ernest") and given the origional source, is meant to be sardonic, not serious.
I have, exactly once, got into a sniping match with a VC, in the 4th act of The Devil We Know.
The interaction goes something like this.
End of Part one:
Us: We rescued the captives, but it seems to be part of a larger plot.
VC: Great we will look into it.
Start of Part two:
VC: I thought you took care of the problem! Now it turns out there was more to it!
US: Yes, thats what we told you.
End of Part two:
Us: Okay, we fixed that, but there were these weird creatures involved, someone should find out if there are more of them.
VC: Okay, we will look into this.
Start of Part three:
VC: This is totally unacceptable, we sent you out to solve this! But it's still going on! Now fix it, this is the third time! There will not be a forth!
US: Um... You realize this is a four part series? Whatever.
End of Part three:
Us: Okay, we investigated. We rescued the captives. By the way, they are planning on invading the city and taking over everything.
VC: Okay, we will look into this.
Start of Part four:
VC: They are invading the city! There is chaos everywhere!
At which point my 2nd level bard started tearing verbal strips off the 11th(?) level VC. Because how do you not at that point.
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I dunno. None of the players around here like Drendle. He never waits to invite them to breakfast but calls them in at odd hours while they are trying to sleep off their carousing.
Thence that tweaks most players is Osprey, who they regard as NOTHING but trouble. He shows up,they automatically that somewhere there is a dead Pathfinder lying in a ditch
Fasch has always liked Osprey because "his missions are always so exciting!"
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My Chelish wizard loves Drendle Dreng, as he seems to be the only VC to keep reasonable hours. Most of the others expect me to be awake first thing in the afternoon!
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It would be kind of funny if the GM turns it into a joke.
"You're clearly not cut out for this mission. Forget the whole thing! We'll find some other Pathfinders who are up for the challenge and are willing to be a little more grateful." The VC waves you off, 0 exp, 0 prestige today. Thanks guyz.
Watch what happens and let them flounder a bit before you laugh it up and retcon.
Its worth noting that the don't be jerk guideline applies to GMs as well as players.
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Its worth noting that the don't be jerk guideline applies to GMs as well as players.It would be kind of funny if the GM turns it into a joke.
"You're clearly not cut out for this mission. Forget the whole thing! We'll find some other Pathfinders who are up for the challenge and are willing to be a little more grateful." The VC waves you off, 0 exp, 0 prestige today. Thanks guyz.
Watch what happens and let them flounder a bit before you laugh it up and retcon.
Hence retconning.
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My Ifrit character doesn't get rude. She stops listening. This bit her in the firey butt in Icebound Outpost.
It has been decided my ifrit will probably be dead by level 4-5.
I encourage players at my tables to take part in the box text, often pausing at quesitons or actions for players to take part in, such as the tea parties that the Lantern Lodge loved to do in their box texts.
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Even NPC Pathfinders make fun of Sheila Heidmarch (though not to her face):
The gnome, Ignizi Dinneletter, addressing the PCs. "You lot with the weapons, unpack this horse, build a nice fire, and pull up some turnips from the garden. Then come have a drink and tell me how fat Sheila's gotten."
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By the end of the day the VCs need a job done. The PCs are the guys to do the job.
If the PCs are rude or fail a previous mission. I have the VC remember.
When they failed quest for perfection 3. The next mission was thornkeep we did and I gave the impression the VC was sending them to their deaths following the corpses of many other pathfinders. As they found a pile of burnt bodies and smashed wayfinders outside it.
If the players have fun being rude or whatever in their roleplay. Roleplay it back. It is a game where they gte to be someone else. Why wreck it by making it artifcially harder and unrealistic by the VC holding back information that may cause them to fail.
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Sheila kicked my low-Cha PC out of a meeting. He (I) wasn't trying to be rude, and definitely not trying to be disruptive, just offering his two cents. In his low-Cha "helpful" way.
Really.
:)
He rolled a nat 20 to worm his way back in, then, having realized his opinion was unwanted, kept quiet, but a bit grumpily so.
:)
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I uncyphermaged that shiela fatty-fat-needs-to-march-it-offs delemma and she would not even share her chocolate biscuit.
Stupid adventure captains.. disrespecting respectable pathsearchers like myself.
"Oh hush.. here have a chocolate cookie.. I'm not sharing my Bearhugger's Double Malt Extreme though. "
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While I have never had players be outright rude to the VCs I was GMing, I have seen it several times. While I think the insinuation of contempt and hints of mockery can be funny, the blatant, in your face, "what are you going to do about it" attitude that I have seen a couple of times is rather immersion breaking. I would be all for VCs laying the smack down if PCs get stupid with them, but there are some GMs I would trust with that authority more than others.
After reading this thread and thinking about it, if PCs started getting abrasive at my table, I think I might start feeding them bogus information in character from the VC.
The OPs option would be a lot more positive reinforcement route.
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I've had a lot of fun - primarily with the woman in charge of the Lantern Lodge - running the various VCs over the last couple years. Reading a bit about their history - be it from the old First Steps line or one of the various books - can really make prep dead-simple for these NPCs.
Sure, they were Pathfinders... but it's been so long that those days are almost a lifetime away. Now? Now they're managers, having to take calculated risks, and ultimately responsible for their own success or failure in the grand scheme of things.
I used to actually look forward to the moments when the "bully" or the low-Cha PCs would try to insert their thoughts. Was quite fun to banter inside the context and scope of the adventure. Unfortunately I've been taking a break since earning my 4th star and running some other game systems.
