Hogeyhead |
Is there any way being really creative with feats and spells to overcome 1/2 Bab as a front line in higher level? I was thinking about the scarred witch doctor and thinking about how it could still be attacky at high level despite 1/2 bab however I don't want extensive dips, maybe one level or two max.
I'd be willing to spend pretty much as many feats as was necessary to mae this possible
David knott 242 |
I would start with magic -- bull's strength or a belt of giant strength (or cat's grace or a belt of incredible dexterity plus the Weapon Finesse feat), a magic weapon with the highest enhancement bonus you can get, a stone of good luck, and the ioun stone that boosts attack rolls.
For feats, go with Weapon Focus and add Weapon Finesse if (as is likely) your dexterity modifier is higher than your strength modifier.
If you want to keep up your spellcasting and are not too worried about hexes, you could always take a level as a fighter and then go into the Eldrith Knight prestige class. The net result of doing that is full BAB for your fighter and Eldritch Knight levels at the cost of two levels of spellcasting.
Corlindale |
EDIT: Scratch that, completely managed to overlook your second post.
If you can get access to some of the polymorph spells that boost strength without losing spellcasting (monstrous physique, etc) that might still help a little with chance to hit. The main problem is lack of iterative attacks, that's really hard to compensate for.
Eldritch Knight can work, it's just suboptimal for a witch because it hurts hex progression.
Bertious |
A scarred witch doctor with the strength patron gets some serious combat buff spells like divine favour and righteous might which would help make you a melee combatant. by level 10 you can have Divine favour +2 to hit and damage, Divine power +3 to hit and damage and +1 attack, and righteous might for +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1 ac, +1 size weapon damage, reach, and damage reduction. So your bab of 5 becomes +11/+11 before your normal bonuses.
... and I just noticed it may be possible to have Righteous might and giant form active at the same time as ' might is not listed as a polymorph effect. if so at level 12 you can get +6 more strength and lots of other bonuses.
Atarlost |
Don't forget that anything that increases your size penalizes your accuracy. That's going to cut into your strength benefits from polymorphing.
Even if you can get your numbers up you'll be spending too many actions and slots buffing to be effective.
Also remember that hexes are supernatural and can be used while under the influence of tenser's transformation. That will get your buffing time down to one round. I'm pretty sure it's the only way that'll work in practice and you'll have to be an orc for the hitpoints since you lack defenses as a witch.
Reynard_the_fox |
A natural attack build is probably your best bet, either using polymorph spells (alter self can get you natural attacks) or picking Tiefling or another race with claws.
Oh, here's an idea - go Half-Orc, take a level in Draconic sorcerer or Arcane Duelist Bard, and then go dragon disciple! You get claws to go with your bite, you can opt to boost your witch casting, and you can take "Extra Hex" as many times as you want to.
Mojorat |
A scarred witch doctor with the strength patron gets some serious combat buff spells like divine favour and righteous might which would help make you a melee combatant. by level 10 you can have Divine favour +2 to hit and damage, Divine power +3 to hit and damage and +1 attack, and righteous might for +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1 ac, +1 size weapon damage, reach, and damage reduction. So your bab of 5 becomes +11/+11 before your normal bonuses.
... and I just noticed it may be possible to have Righteous might and giant form active at the same time as ' might is not listed as a polymorph effect. if so at level 12 you can get +6 more strength and lots of other bonuses.
I can't remember the wording but I think the polymorph rules prevent other size changing effects.
Akerlof |
A scarred witch doctor with the strength patron gets some serious combat buff spells like divine favour and righteous might which would help make you a melee combatant. by level 10 you can have Divine favour +2 to hit and damage, Divine power +3 to hit and damage and +1 attack, and righteous might for +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1 ac, +1 size weapon damage, reach, and damage reduction. So your bab of 5 becomes +11/+11 before your normal bonuses.
Don't forget the Fate's Favored trait, it gives you an extra +1 from Divine Favor.
Bertious |
Bertious wrote:Don't forget the Fate's Favored trait, it gives you an extra +1 from Divine Favor.A scarred witch doctor with the strength patron gets some serious combat buff spells like divine favour and righteous might which would help make you a melee combatant. by level 10 you can have Divine favour +2 to hit and damage, Divine power +3 to hit and damage and +1 attack, and righteous might for +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1 ac, +1 size weapon damage, reach, and damage reduction. So your bab of 5 becomes +11/+11 before your normal bonuses.
I missed that one nice addition. :)
Lord_Malkov |
Alrighty, I actually think casters can totally get into melee and tear it up.
So, things to take:
- Arcane Strike
- Fate's Favored (Trait)
- You will want a decent +str belt
- Amulet of Mighty Fists
You could attempt to use manufactured weapons, but your low BAB will always hold you back because the lack of iteratives, so your best best is to go with natural attacks. You will also want to focus on Undead Anatomy, Monstrous Physique, and Form of the Dragon so you can still cast spells. You can try for witch, but they don't have these as base spells, you are far better off using Sorcerer + Dragon disciple.
So, lets look at a lvl 11 build:
Human Martial Artist+Master of Many Styles Monk 1, Sorcerer (Draconic) 4, Dragon Disciple 6
Str: 22 (+4 dragon disciple, +1 4th, +1 8th, +2 belt)
Dex: 16 (+2 belt)
Con: 18 (+2 dragon disciple, +2 belt)
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 18 (+2 human, +2 headband)
At level 11 you will have an effective CL of 8. The go-to spell will be Monstrous Physique II, an I like the mighty four-armed Gargoyle. Lets assume you are in that form during combat.
HP: 127 (1d8 + 4d6 + 6d12 + 44con + 11 favored class + 11 toughness)
BAB: +6/+1
AC: (10, +3 dex, +2 ring, +
CMB: +12 CMD: 25
Fort:+13 Ref:+11 Will:+12
Energy resistance to whatever your dragon bloodline is.
Feats:
Human: Dodge,1: Improved Unarmed Strike(Monk), Dragon Style(Monk), Stunning Fist(Monk), Crane Style,3: Weapon Focus: Claw, 5: Feral Combat Training, 7: Dragon Ferocity, Bloodline Feat: Power Attack, 9: Crane Wing, 10: Bloodline Feat Toughness, 11 Crane Riposte
Items: (82k WBL)
Belt of Physical Perfection +2 (16,000),Headband of Alluring Charisma +4 (16,000),Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 (5,000),Ring of Protection +2 (8,000)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9,000),This leaves 28,000 for whatever else you might want.
Four Armed Gargoyle Form:
Assume Mage Armor is cast. (form grants +4 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +4 natural armor)
AC: 29 (10, +2 natural armor from Draconic Bloodline, +2 natural armor from Dragon disciple (they stack), +4 size bonus to nat armor, +4 AC from mage armor, -1 size, +2 dex, +2 ring, +4 fighting defensively)
Attack Bonus: +13 (+6 BAB, -1 Size, +1 AoMF, +8 Str, -1 Fighting Defensively(crane), claws will get +1 (focus))
DEFENSE
AC 29, touch 17, flat-footed 23
Fort +13, Ref +10, Will +12
OFFENSE
Speed: 40 ft., fly 60 ft. (average)
Melee: bite +13 (1d8+9), 4 claws +14 (1d6+13), gore +13 (1d4+9)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks rend (1d6+9)
Beopere |
by level 10 you can have Divine favour +2 to hit and damage, Divine power +3 to hit and damage and +1 attack, and righteous might for +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1 ac, +1 size weapon damage, reach, and damage reduction. So your bab of 5 becomes +11/+11 before your normal bonuses.
... and I just noticed it may be possible to have Righteous might and giant form active at the same time as ' might is not listed as a polymorph effect. if so at level 12 you can get +6 more strength and lots of other bonuses.
Divine favor and divine power both give luck bonuses... as such I do not believe you can use them together.
Same with righteous might and giant form not stacking size bonuses.
Claxon |
Why do you want to melee with a witch?
If you're going to bother having full spell progression you should be casting spells or hexing every round. Leave sword swinging to the fighter and barbarian. If you even have a chance to hit it, it will probably be dead and steamrolled long before you get a whack at it.
Bertious |
Bertious wrote:by level 10 you can have Divine favour +2 to hit and damage, Divine power +3 to hit and damage and +1 attack, and righteous might for +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1 ac, +1 size weapon damage, reach, and damage reduction. So your bab of 5 becomes +11/+11 before your normal bonuses.
... and I just noticed it may be possible to have Righteous might and giant form active at the same time as ' might is not listed as a polymorph effect. if so at level 12 you can get +6 more strength and lots of other bonuses.
Divine favor and divine power both give luck bonuses... as such I do not believe you can use them together.
Same with righteous might and giant form not stacking size bonuses.
Oops you sir are correct. My bad.
AnarianElf1085 |
Another thing, expensive, but effective; Brilliant Energy weapons. They're useless against undead and constructs, but it bypasses all non-living matter so attacking a warrior, for instance, would ignore his armor and shield. You'd basically be making a touch attack against him, but with your weapon. I don't believe it bypasses natural armor, but I'd have to look it up. But that's a suggestion for you.
Jamie Charlan |
Doesn't work on natural armor. Only Shield and Armor bonuses to AC.
No help vs dragons, no help vs tarrasques, no help vs deflection, dodge or luck, means nothing more than it would without BE against DR either of course.
Were it a 12000gp upgrade or a +2 bonus it would be... something worth considering. However as a +4 bonus it's brutally expensive.
Sarf |
Greater Heroism. Monstrous physique. Greater magic weapon. Bulls strength or similar enhancement. Shield spell + 2handed weapons. These are how you match a fighter. Im actually playing a rift warden wizard right now who is doing amazingly with it. Just remember you will never have the iterative attacks so at higher levels focus less on full attacking and more on moving/vital striking. You can get insane strength scores with very little effort.
Sarf |
load yourself with +damage. 2 handed weapon 18 str base wizard buffed at level 5 can do -
+6 str
+3 bulls str
+1 monstrous physique or alter self both medium
+2 arcane strike
+1 weapon
+3 power qttack
damage dice +16
swinging at
+7 Str
+2 bab
+1 weapon
-1 power attack.
+2 heroism (if needed)
9 or 11
compared to fighter 18 base str +2 belt
+7 str
+1 weapon training
+2 weapon specialization
+6 power attack
+1 weapon
damage dice +17
+6 bab
+5 str
+1 weapon training
+1 weapon focus
+1 weapon
-2 power attack.
+12
you both have similar hit and damage. albeit yours is nova and his is lasting but you have other spells in addition to this. the higher the levels go the more things sway in your favor. id say level 5 is the beginning of a 'fighter' wizards career.