In conjunction with my other currently running thread, I'd like some advice for my players here.
Recap:
Level 12 group with no healer. The 5 characters are:
Fighter
Rogue
Monk
Arcane Archer (8th level caster)
Wizard
So my question is: please advise my players. What would YOU do if you were one of these players to increase your character's survival chances and the group's as well? What items, spells, feats, etc., would YOU bring if you were playing one or more of these characters?
Any flat defensive items; cloaks of resistance, rings of protection, amulets of nat armor, the usual stuff.
For more specific cases, I link you to this guide of useful class-specific items:
http://zenithgames.blogspot.ca/2013/11/improving-your-class-with-items.html
There are a lot of items there that can boost the defense/offense of specific classes far beyond the norm.
Otherwise, there might be "strategic" ways? More/better scouting?
The arcane archer and wizard ca try to synergize their spells to do a better job. Since they are probably both squishy, it might be worth if for them to stay together. Cant recommend any spells beyond standard though(protection from energy, heroism/greater heroism, haste, invisibility, black tentacles). The usefulness will depend on their schools. I really dont know the arcane archer well enough to recommend anything useful.
There's always the "godless healing" feat if anyone's an atheist. And I know that the save boosting feats & toughness are "boring", but they are worth it.
Craft wand.
Wands of CLW or infernal healing.
Use Magic Device skill plus a bundle of Cure Light Wounds wands
Put ranks in the Heal skill.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wizard uses Core rules to pay 1,000 gp per spell level to research arcane versions of cure spells. Worked for us.
I have run into this many time in my group when it is my turn to DM, as I almost always play the cleric.
We house rule the Heal skill to be able to cure an amount of HP based on player level and ranks in the skill.
We also use alchemy and herbalism to allow the player to craft non magical healing potions.
I used to play in a group without healers. Other than buying lots of wands of CLW, Infernal Healing and Lesser Restoration, there is not much to do that you wouldn't do anyway.
Not having a "healer" class among us was problematic here and there but it wasn't a deal-breaker.
Usually i play a PC with a follower (summoner/sorc(arcane with improv familiar)/bard(leadership)) and i make sure to avoid danger if possible.
So i will scout ahead and if i need to fight , i will try to stay away from the evil guys with spells and items.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Be the wizard, always have a run away spell ready, and be selfish when combat looks like it is going poorly.
Take the yuxia archetype from the super genius games genius guide to martial archetypes and have a swift action self heal to cover emergencies for myself.
Switch to the Vigor/Wounds system in the Ultimate Combat book and tweak it a little. Let them recover some vigor with short rests (say 30 minutes to regain 1 vigor/character level + Con modifier) That way Vigor becomes a renewing buffer against death and Wounds are the part they worry about.
Also the Retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign allow them to train up their Hit Points/Vigor. So if you allow those you can let the group run themselves up to Max Hit Points/Vigor.
We are running an extremely deadly adventure (the Slumbering Tsar) and the players have had no healer for about 9 games now, though we have had 4 party members die, all to circumstances where healing wouldn't help. They do alot of natural healing, but there is roughly a 40% chance of an encounter every 3 hours while out in the field. They get beat up alot.
Thus far they have survived through a pair of heavily used cure light wounds wands and sparse potions. They are now roughly level 8.
Sorcerer with the Celestial bloodline (Heal is a class skill; Heavenly Fire touch attack is 1D4+1 healing for Good characters)
Heal skill, healer's kits, healing alchemical items (don't forget the APG - Bloodblock).
Bandages of Rapid Recovery (APG, 200 gp), which is good for overnight healing.
Aforementioned CLW and UMD. Your group sounds desperate enough for a Skill Focus (UMD) to add +3. Add in the usual CHA buffers for more points to UMD.
But at Level 12? Seriously, somebody take one "for the team" and multiclass into Bard for the arcane CLW.
In-combat healing has been known to be not as effective, depending on the circumstances, as out-of-combat healing. It saves on money, resources, and time, plus healing even 50 HP per PC might not be as helpful, especially if not everyone is injured, as doing damage yourself. Finishing the encounter, whether by combat or some other means as quickly as possible has typically been the more logical choice then to take longer and waste resources, depending on the situation.
The archer can try to see if the DM would allow customized arrows. I.e. homebrew arrows. If so, see if you create an injection arrow. There exists one in the Super genius games for archers or the ranger class. It has an injector arrow. See if you can get potions of cure X and put those in the archers new arrows. Voila! Ranged healing on the fly. And get wands of cure light wounds for out of combat.
Infernal Healing and Greater infernal Healing are available to be used by the wizard and arcane archer. It is great out of combat healing.
The easiest to me seems to be to take Leadership, and get a cohort who heals.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Play as if you were actually your character and felt their pain and feared their death.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Some of this is for any party, but a healer is often an excuse to play sloppy, counting on them to fix you when you screw up.
1) Plan - Discuss general party tactics. How you will support each other. If a wizard wants to lead with a black tentacles, it is best if the rogue hasn't improved initiatived his way into the center of the battle. In general, what spells and items will each PC have, how can they help each other out? What are the party weaknesses and how can they best be countered?
2) Research - Know what you will be facing before you even enter an encounter area whenever possible. Gather information. Scry if you can. If you know what you are facing encounters are a whole lot simpler, and you are likely to have the extra scrolls of remove paralysis you will need.
3) Scout - Rogue and Monk should have pretty good stealth, don't split the party completely, but 50-60 feet ahead whenever possible means the bad guys probably won't hear your fighter clumping in the rear and you will be able to prep for an fight.
4) Coordinate - Concentrate fire on one target at a time as much as possible. Foes with 1 hp do as much damage as those with full HP, so make sure you kill one rather than wound several. Rogues need a flanking buddy to be effective, make sure that is happening.
5) Adapt - Know the options in the game. Against multiple low CR foes, you might want to fight defensively since you will still probably hit them and if they can't hit you, you will win (this can be an incredibly effective against a touch-ac attack.) Readying an action to shoot a spell caster can shut down a powerful foe, even if it isn't as much damage as a full attack. Even without a special build, a monk or fighter can probably grapple/trip/steal/sunder against scrawny wizard.
6) Evaluate - Sometimes you end up unprepared and you are facing an encounter that you just can't handle, or luck has abandoned you. Retreat is a valid tactic. Having a couple of plans for retreating can make sure everyone gets home and can return to fight another day.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When it comes time to flee, be sure you can out run your fellow party members. You don't need to outrun the monster, just the slower members of the group.
Good advice.
I don't think the wizard wants infernal healing - he's decidedly NOT evil and neither is his silver dragon familiar.
Out of combat healing is covered. The rogue does have 1 cleric level so he can use wands without UMD. We've also used the Summon Monster 5/6 thing to get healing monsters.
The real killer so far is conditions like paralysis, or needing defensive buffs like Fire Resistance, or needing emergency heals when someone is on the brink of death and certainly gonna take a ton of damage next round.
So, any ideas to survive that kind of stuff?
Does the rogue/cleric have enough UMD to use a scroll of Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy (Communal), Freedom of Movement or Heal?
|
A drunken master/sensei monk can fill up on alcohol and then start passing out Wholeness of Body to everyone. Although I suppose that's technically playing a healer now. :)
Crafted goods are the answer. If your GM and group doesn't find it broken, create a cure light wounds trap that automatically resets and use that to reduce downtime to nothing. Alternatively, a wondrous item that can cast cure light wounds 3/day on command at CL 1st would cost 1080 gp.
If your character is about to die, use the Withdraw action to get out of harms way. Let someone else soak some hits.
Take a level of Drunken Brute Barbarian, then you can drink a potion as a move action without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Pre-roll a backup character.
The real killer so far is conditions like paralysis, or needing defensive buffs like Fire Resistance, or needing emergency heals when someone is on the brink of death and certainly gonna take a ton of damage next round.
So, any ideas to survive that kind of stuff?
If you allow purchase of partially used wands that can be a great way to deal with it. 50 charges of remove paralysis is probably overkill and certainly 50 charges of every possible condition removal wand will break your bank. But 5 - 10 can be a great investment, and 1 level of cleric means you can activate without failure.
Failing that, scrolls and potions.
For emergency healing, a familiar with either a custom magic item or wand can be great, usually able to get to the person and provide enough to keep them on their feet for another round.
Also, group tactics can be great. If the fighter has gotten pummeled the monk could draw off attacks of opportunity allowing him to pull back and either get some healing or support the fight a different way, maybe pulling out a bow.
Pump UMD
The Heal skill can restore Hit Points if you are willing to spend the hour on surgery
The Wizard could take the "Summon Good Monsters" feat from Champions of Purity. Even low level summons like the Lyrakien Azata come with useful spells like Cure light wounds or their Traveler's Friend power that removes Fatigue and exhaustion
May I inquire what the division of the Arcane Archer levels are?
Actual HP healing is fairly easily handled via CLW/IH wands, what I'd be more worried about is conditions.
Blindness, disease, poison, ability score damage, energy drain, petrification etc tend to crop up frequently when you get up in the medium-high levels. The wizard can handle some of those conditions (assuming he acquires the right spells), but not all of them.
As for solutions... At level 12 WBL gives your party a WBL total of 540 000 GP. If each player is ok with setting aside 3% of his WBL to spend on miscellaneous restorative items that's 16k gold, which can go a long way. Some scrolls of Remove blindness/curse/disease, neutralize poison, restoration etc as well as a few scrolls of Heal for emergencies would be viable if the rogue has sufficient UMD to swing it or if the Arcane Archer has a divine starter class.
|
So my question is: please advise my players. What would YOU do if you were one of these players to increase your character's survival chances and the group's as well? What items, spells, feats, etc., would YOU bring if you were playing one or more of these characters?
@OP: People mostly had good suggestions above. The best suggestions were the ones about using smart tactics, so your group does not take damage. Do everything you can to mitigate damage, so you don't need healing. Take down your foes fast & by surprise.
Your group already contains a semi-competent healer. Although several people mentioned that the Wizard can summon things with SLAs that heal, no one mentioned the lowly Lantern Archon (SM3). A Lantern Archon can give everyone d8+3 extra HP before a fight, which is like pre-healing 37 HP in your group of 5. With a 4th level spell that same wizard can summon multiple Lantern Archons which can each pre-heal one PC each round. This adds up. For a 5 round combat * average 2 Archons per SM4 spell * 7.5 HP pre-healing per round that's about 75 HP of in-combat healing, with free action economy, from a 4th level spell which could be cast before the fight starts. Thus, with one correctly-timed 4th level spell your wizard can mitigate (prevent) over 100 HP damage. Who needs cure spells?
With a 6th level spell the Wizard can can summon multiple Lillend Azata's, which can each cast Cure Serious Wounds twice per day (average 82 HP in-combat healing). They would also provide +2 +2 Inspire Courage as a 7th level Bard, which your group notably lacks, and some other neat SLAs (e.g. cast eight DC16 Sound Burst or Hold Person spells).
If you use smart tactics, effective damage mitigation, and an occasional summoned healer, you should be fine.
In my groups no one has ever wanted to play a cleric. we just removed the artificial division on arcane/divine spells and put the heaing spells in the socceror/wizard list. has not relly changed things and wands of cure light wounds are still the go to option.
Do as you like, of course, but I think that's a lame house rule. Arcane casters are already overpowered, and that just makes them more so. You eliminated the one big drawback arcane casters have with respect to divine casters. With that house rule in place no one will ever want to play a divine caster. You basically house-ruled those classes out of existence. Bleah!
Unless you also put Grease, Invisibility, Fireball, Haste, Black Tentacles, et cetera on the Divine list ... which I doubt. That house rule further widens the gap between Wizards and Everyone Else.
Of course, I like to play Clerics. I get it that some people don't like the flavor of playing a servant of the gods. I also note that many people [incorrectly] think Cleric == Healer, and fail to grasp that Cleric is a tremendously powerful and flexible class.
May I inquire what the division of the Arcane Archer levels are?
I don't exactly remember. He has a few wizard levels, a few eldritch knight levels, and a few arcane archer levels, but I don't remember the exact mix. I know his 12 character levels add up to a 9th level caster (wizard).
And buy First Aid Gloves
What you really need sometimes is Heal and Breath of Life. The gloves can get someone back twice...
Those gloves are interesting. A complete waste of time if you just get 10 CLW spells out of them for the price of 6 wands. But using them for Breath of Life has some merit.
If outside of PFS; craft a unique item (rod or stave). Something that can cast heal would be ideal - it is that awesome.
I am very torn on this. The Paizo staff has made it very clear that non-depletable healing items are a big no-no, and for good reason. That is why they don't have any items that have unlimited healing. Potions, scrolls, wands, those are OK. Even a Staff of Healing (permanent, but limited charges - and nobody in this group could recharge one anyway). But nothing permanent.
And I agree with the reasons. Way overpowered to make a stone of Cure Serious Wounds for 30,000 (15,000 to make it) with simple command word activation and infinite uses.
Or I should say, I normally agree. But, with this group, it might be just what they need.
On the other hand, giving them a pair of gloves that heals party members will end up just turning the wearer into a heal-bot, at least part-time, which is what the five players were trying to avoid in the first place.
In my groups no one has ever wanted to play a cleric. we just removed the artivicai division on arcane/divine spells and purth te heaing spells in the socceror/wizard list. has not relly changed things and wands of cure light wounds are still the go to option.
have you tried Super Genius's Mosaic Mage. It's an alternative Wizard class that does have access to all spells but breaks them down into colors depending on School and Subschool
The Conjuration (Healing) spells for example are White magic, usable by White Mages. Evocation (Fire) spells are Red Magic usable by Red Mages, Illusion (Shadow) is Black Magic, etc......
it opens up the spell lists a great deal while still putting limits on who can cast what.
There are a lot of chars that can generate hp without really being a healer. Just yesterday I posted in another thread about someone being forced to play a healer how a blaster can heal while blasting/buffing.
For it to be really effective you need a 3pp feat but even without it the build can do some passive healing.
Half-orc flame oracle with firegod's blessing, glorious heat, if allowed the mystical healer feat and a one level dip into life necromancer.
Another option is alchemist (has a self heal discovery tree.) Or a two level dip into alchemist for classes with access to shield other. Get a tumour familiar and cast shield other on it. If it is attached to you it has fast healing 5.
Or be a stonelord paladin. You can have good ac, good saves, have DR and lay on hands. But no one can call you a healer. Being no spellcaster and, most often a low cha guy with few LoH.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hide behind the Fighter.
|
|
Since the Arcane Archer is about a 9th level Wizard, that PC could take up the missing role of 'Anvil'. It would work better if the 12th level Wizard did it, but the Level 9 can do fine. That way the Arcane Archer takes the 'God Wizard' role and provides battlefield control, freeing up the 12th level wizard to blast stuff and not matter much. If your party adopted that tactic they would take a lot less hurt and need a lot less healing.
I am very torn on this. The Paizo staff has made it very clear that non-depletable healing items are a big no-no, and for good reason. That is why they don't have any items that have unlimited healing. Potions, scrolls, wands, those are OK. Even a Staff of Healing (permanent, but limited charges - and nobody in this group could recharge one anyway). But nothing permanent.
And I agree with the reasons. Way overpowered to make a stone of Cure Serious Wounds for 30,000 (15,000 to make it) with simple command word activation and infinite uses.
Or I should say, I normally agree. But, with this group, it might be just what they need.
On the other hand, giving them a pair of gloves that heals party members will end up just turning the wearer into a heal-bot, at least part-time, which is what the five players were trying to avoid in the first place.
If you are worried about healing in your party and the lack is disrupting your game, who cares what paizo says is balanced? Do what works for your game. I dispise the need for hp healing coming from character resources and dont like the war of attrition of resources that wands create. So my party generally gets several 3.5 healing belts. Are they 'balanced' in the strictest sense? no. But they deal with something i'd rather not be an issue in my game. If 3 players have something like that (renewable healing), then no one character is the new 'healbot'. Its spread out. Sometimes characters will use them on others, other times on themselves. And no one has to be the walking bandaid cleric.
Do the players have more resources then they are 'supposed' to have? Sure, but they are also 'supposed' to have a cleric, and if they are just healing between fights anyway with cure wands, they are arent gaining alot of power, just the ability to deal with the problems you are worried about without having to change classes.