Archmage Mythic Path: arcane surge and swift actions

[DRD1812]

Under the mythic rules, the archmage path ability Arcane Surge is a swift action, and therefore seems to say "get your highest level spell as an uber-powered quickened spell." However, the hierophant equivalent ability Recalled Blessing makes no mention of a swift action, leading me to believe it's only a standard. As such, I honestly wonder if I've been misreading Arcane Surge. Here's the relevant text:

"As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot."

Now does that mean casting the spell is a swift action, or that expending a use of mythic power is a distinct swift action, while the spell itself still counts as its own standard/full round/whatever action?

[blahpers]

Casting the spell is a swift action.

This is in line with the other "choose one of three" mythic starter abilities that allow an extra use of what is normally a standard action ability with a nice-to-have benefit. Compare Fleet Charge--it gives an additional move and attack, and it bypasses DR. Also compare Wild Arcana, which was erratum'd to require a standard action but allows you to cast anything on your entire spell list (whether you know the spell or not), allows metamagic, and further increases your effective caster level by 2.

[DRD1812]

blahpers wrote:

Casting the spell is a swift action.

Any thoughts on why the equivalent Hierophant ability is a standard action? The different wording between the two seems...odd.

[LazarX]

DRD1812 wrote:

blahpers wrote:

Casting the spell is a swift action.

Any thoughts on why the equivalent Hierophant ability is a standard action? The different wording between the two seems...odd.

Because in the end, arcane and divine are different?

[Are]

They probably want the Archmage to be the best at casting spells.

[rayous brightblade]

as per the FAQ here : http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gl

"Why do the "inspired spell" and "wild arcana" path abilities have slightly different rules text?

These two abilities should function the same and (other than they affect divine or arcane spells) have identical rules text. They also need some clarification about what spells you can cast with either of these path abilities.

The proposed text for these two abilities (pending an official errata of the Mythic Adventures book) is:

Inspired Spell (Su): As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one divine spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your divine class spell lists (or your domain or mystery spell list), must be of a level that you can cast with that divine spellcasting class, and must have a casting time of "1 standard action" (or less). You don't need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can't be greater than that of the highest-level divine spell you can cast from that spellcasting class.

Wild Arcana (Su): As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your arcane class spell lists, must be of a level that you can cast with that arcane spellcasting class, and must have a casting time of "1 standard action" (or less). You don't need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can't be greater than that of the highest-level arcane spell you can cast from that spellcasting class."

[DRD1812]

rayous brightblade wrote:

These two abilities should function the same and (other than they affect divine or arcane spells) have identical rules text.

That little FAQ nugget is part of what got me thinking about this. It seems strange that the Archmage gets a quickened super powered spell while the Hierophant only gets the equivalent as a standard.

[Are]

The FAQ says that they should have worked the same way, and should have been worded the same way, then goes on to say that they will be errata'd to actually work identically.

So as written, they don't work the same way, but they should have and will after errata.

The only sad thing is that they're reducing the arcane version to standard rather than improving the divine version to swift :)

[blahpers]

It's a good question. Making the swift action separate from the casting, however, would make arcane surge strictly worse than recalled blessing because the former would require both a swift action and the casting time, while recalled blessing doesn't require a separate action at all for its surge.

They'll probably issue errata for that ability as well, because the design team hates spellcasters. ; )

[blahpers]

Are wrote:

The FAQ says that they should have worked the same way, and should have been worded the same way, then goes on to say that they will be errata'd to actually work identically.

So as written, they don't work the same way, but they should have and will after errata.

The only sad thing is that they're reducing the arcane version to standard rather than improving the divine version to swift :)

The FAQ was not for arcane surge. It was for wild arcana.

[DRD1812]

blahpers wrote:

It's a good question. Making the swift action separate from the casting, however, would make arcane surge strictly worse than recalled blessing because the former would require both a swift action and the casting time, while recalled blessing doesn't require a separate action at all for its surge.

Looks like we're on the same page in terms of analysis. I'll probably ask my GM if we can just call all of these abilities a single standard action. That seems like the simplest, fairest solution while we wait for new errata.

[LazarX]

blahpers wrote:

It's a good question. Making the swift action separate from the casting, however, would make arcane surge strictly worse than recalled blessing because the former would require both a swift action and the casting time, while recalled blessing doesn't require a separate action at all for its surge.

They'll probably issue errata for that ability as well, because the design team hates spellcasters. ; )

Oh those poor underpowered spellcasters. Here... have a bucket.

[Are]

blahpers wrote:

The FAQ was not for arcane surge. It was for wild arcana.

Ah. I assumed (yeah, yeah, I know) it was for the discussed ability :)

[rayous brightblade]

my mistake. It seems there is a reason to take arcane surge now then.

[Isil-zha]

Hm... Is it just me or does it say it costs a swift action to expend the mythic power to not lose the spell slot. There is no mentioning of reduction of casting time for the actual spell being cast.

[Cat-thulhu]

That's what I interpret it as. That said it means the ability costs you your standard and your swift action for the round, but means you can retain/recast an added 25 spells per day at 5th tier.

[seebs]

Isil-zha wrote:

Hm... Is it just me or does it say it costs a swift action to expend the mythic power to not lose the spell slot. There is no mentioning of reduction of casting time for the actual spell being cast.

You're right, and the powers that say that you can move as a swift action don't say they reduce the action cost of moving, either.

But it turns out that when the rules say "as a swift action, you can", they mean "you can do it, and doing so is a swift action", even though they don't specifically stop and say "oh, and when we say you can do this as a swift action, we don't mean you can take a swift action to enable yourself to do it and then actually doing it still needs another action type".

Wacky!