Multiple attacks, grab, and constrict- Wolves in sheeps clothing


Rules Questions


No not me cross dressing!

There's a monster called the Wolf in sheeps clothing. It pretends to be a stump. it has 8 tentacles, grab, and constrict.

Constrict (Ex):
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

Grab (Ex):
If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Now, if this thing reaches out to grab someone, can it constrict multiple times?

The way I read it was that you could only constrict once, since grappling someone you've already grappled is like tripping someone thats always on the ground. (would have needed a spatula for the paladin otherwise...)


Grappling is usually a standard action. So is the check to maintain the grapple. The Grab ability lets it start a grapple for free, but doesn't do anything for the standard action to maintain the grapple. Neither does the Constrict ability.

So, round 1:
Attack with free Grab if the attack hits and free Constrict if the Grab works. It could do this to multiple enemies in this round as a Full-Attack

Round 2:
Standard action to maintain the grapple. If it grabbed more than one victim, it has to pick one to maintain and let the others go. If the grapple check succeeds, it can Constrict for free. Since this uses its Standard action, it can do nothing else this round.

Arguably, a critter like this one is MUCH better off just releasing everybody as free actions and then attacking 8 times again, rather than just maintaining one grapple - as long as there are multiple targets within reach.

Which seems really silly.


I wonder, has anyone tried house-ruling the "Maintain Grapple" check as an Attack Action so that it can be used with every attack in a Full-Attack?

This way, WiSCs, Ropers, Krakens, etc., could all grab multiple enemies and hang onto all of them, dragging, constricting, squishing them all every round with their multiple attacks.

I wonder if such creatures become overpowered TPK-machines if we try this as a house rule?

Has anyone tried it?


DM_Blake wrote:
Neither does the Constrict ability.

dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check

It makes the grapple check as soon as it strikes its target, so as soon as you're grabbed you're constricted;

Quote:
Arguably, a critter like this one is MUCH better off just releasing everybody as free actions and then attacking 8 times again, rather than just maintaining one grapple - as long as there are multiple targets within reach.

Definitely. (i thought it would be funnier to try to plant its seed in the party member though)


BigNorseWolf wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Neither does the Constrict ability.

dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check

It makes the grapple check as soon as it strikes its target, so as soon as you're grabbed you're constricted;

Yes, which doesn't do anything for the fact that maintaining a grapple is a standard action - Constrict is free, but maintaining is not, and Constrict doesn't change that.


DM_Blake wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Neither does the Constrict ability.

dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check

It makes the grapple check as soon as it strikes its target, so as soon as you're grabbed you're constricted;

Yes, which doesn't do anything for the fact that maintaining a grapple is a standard action - Constrict is free, but maintaining is not, and Constrict doesn't change that.

Right, but i'm worried about round 1.

Tentacle 1 attacks, hits and grabs. The PC takes hit damage and constrict damage.

Tentacle 2 attacks and hits. The PC takes hit damage. Can the tentacle then grab the PC and get a second constrict on him? Both of the constricts are free actions.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Neither does the Constrict ability.

dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check

It makes the grapple check as soon as it strikes its target, so as soon as you're grabbed you're constricted;

Yes, which doesn't do anything for the fact that maintaining a grapple is a standard action - Constrict is free, but maintaining is not, and Constrict doesn't change that.

Right, but i'm worried about round 1.

Tentacle 1 attacks, hits and grabs. The PC takes hit damage and constrict damage.

Tentacle 2 attacks and hits. The PC takes hit damage. Can the tentacle then grab the PC and get a second constrict on him? Both of the constricts are free actions.

If it doesn't, Tentacle 1 could add drop as a free action after the constrict damage, leaving Tentacle 2-8 free to do the same...though 8 may want to hold on for later.


Yes, the Grab and Constrict both happen for free with a successful attack, so dropping the victims is not necessary - it can Hit/Grab/Constrict 8 times in a round, hang onto everyone during their turns (which limits their actions somewhat), then release everyone as a free action at the start of its turn and repeat with 8 more Hit/Grab/Constrict attempts.

Very silly.

Not many real life scenarios to compare with, but I don't think this is how octopi or squids constrict in real life - then again, I have never seen them try to constrict two victims at once, either, so I have no idea. Nevertheless, the idea of a constrictor, designed for grappling and constricting, preferring to release and re-grab its enemies every round is a very silly game mechanic indeed.


And if there's one target?

Can you make a grapple check against someone to establish a grapple when you're already grappling them?

Dark Archive

I don't believe you can "regrapple" a grappled creature to get more constricts, but you can do the following as a full attack:

1) Attack with tentacle.
2) On a hit, attempt to grab as a free action.
3) On a successful grab, automatically constrict.
4) Release the creature as a free action.
5) Repeat above actions against the same creature until you run out of tentacle attacks, at which point you'll likely want to hold your grapple until the beginning of your next turn when you can begin again.

You can use free actions during a full attack as often as you'd like, so unless the GM feels the above 15 to 16 free actions are more than the creature can realistically accomplish in a round, then that's a perfectly legitimate strategy. And since the GM is likely the one using this creature, he or she would only be nerfing his or her own plan.

EDIT: Others beat me to it!


Even the nerfed wisc almost caught a body :)

Dark Archive

Yeah, these creatures are no joke. 15 ft. reach, pull, and a bite attack they can use against the creature once they pull it closer? You're looking at up to 16d4+1d6+35 damage per round.

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