Noob help for a fighter


Advice


Hi everyone,

I used to paly AD&D a looooongf time ago and recently I was invited to do a run of Rappan Athuk with fellow 45-50 old players.
I was originally assumed to play a NPC as I was only supposed to play 2 sessions. Well things changed and I am more or less an ordinary player now.

The problem is that the DM (right word?) made a very standard NPC, a sword and shield fighter specilazed in Axes. Epic experiences in the caves of Rappan has provided me with a Vorpal Longsword +4, so I am turning away from axes.

We have a VERY weird party that is not by any means well balanced and I feel I want to find a way to provide more for the party than just a hacker/slasher.

We are all around lvl 7-9, Me human fighter, Hobgoblin Fighter (reachweapon), Hobgoblin Barbarian, Drow Archer, Drow Cleric/Fighter, Drow Sorceror, and Tiefling Rogue/Assasin.
The DM has been very generous with Magic and Stats so we are all really good at what we are doing.

For a lot of reasons I have ended up with;
Str 22
Dex 17
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 12

I am currently level 7 and I would love to spend next level as a fighter class to get the improved Critical feat at level 8. Our DM has tweaked the CR rolls a bit so this is a very important feat for me.

But please help me out what to do.....We are lacking magic an all forms, especially healing. But can I really go down the Cleric rout?? With a new stat point at lvl 8 I could go for 13 Wis, BUT I do want 18 in DEX for +1 in AC and initiative.
My INT screams WIZARD, but I have a shield and armor.....

Should I go on as a fighter?? Should I switch to Barbarian??? I sport a chainmail so I suppose it's doable...and Rage is fun.

Ranger??

I'm sorry for the looong post but I felt it needed to be =)

Live long and prosper


The alchemist is int based, has no arcane spell failure, can brew healing elixirs and gets a mutagen that helps in melee.

Other than that there are spells without somatic components which do not suffer from arcane spell failure.
So wizard or witch would work, too.


Just stick to the fighter. You have way too many lvl to multiclass and still have a major benefit. As fas as healing is concearned, just give all of you money to your multiclassed cleric to buy a want of cure light wounds for patching you up after battles. I suggest that you stay in fighter and take the two-weapon fighting and improved shield bashing as your next feats, eventually taking the Shieldmaster feat.


Asmodeus Pet wrote:

I am currently level 7 and I would love to spend next level as a fighter class to get the improved Critical feat at level 8. Our DM has tweaked the CR rolls a bit so this is a very important feat for me.

But please help me out what to do.....We are lacking magic an all forms, especially healing. But can I really go down the Cleric rout?? With a new stat point at lvl 8 I could go for 13 Wis, BUT I do want 18 in DEX for +1 in AC and initiative.
My INT screams WIZARD, but I have a shield and armor.....

Mutliclassing into wizard at level 8 isnt going to do alot for you unless you plan for it. For instance, as you mention you use armor. Multiclassing in general in pathfinder usually comes with pretty heavy tradeoffs. So think carefully before you decide to do that. In fact I'd ask your dm if you could rebuild your character before I went towards multiclassing, especially into a casting class.

If multiclassing is your only option, then alchemist is probably a better choice then wizard, as mentioned you can do SOME healing and magic, and its low level abilities would blend better with your martial prowess then a straight wizard.

Are you allowed 3rd party material? There might be some easier ways to mix in some additional options that mesh better with 7 levels of fighter.

Quote:

Should I go on as a fighter?? Should I switch to Barbarian??? I sport a chainmail so I suppose it's doable...and Rage is fun.

Ranger??

I'm sorry for the looong post but I felt it needed to be =)

Barbarian fits pretty well, and hte rage powers do let you do a few things that are different then a normal fighter, but you would still mostly just be hitting things with your sword.

I think your best option is to talk to your dm about rebuilding your character given you originally didnt think you were going to remain in the game and now would like something a little more interesting then a straight fighter.


Most of the martial/caster concepts (often called a gish) really only work well if planned that way from the start.

I would not do cleric unless you want to do a single level dip for the first level domain abilities and to use cleric magic items.

Having said that, you do have the intelligence to start adding wizard or sage bloodline sorcerer levels. There is the arcane armor training feat (and arcane armor mastery) to cast in armor. Though you wouldn't be able to take it for a few levels yet. So you would want the still spell feat (or a meta magic rod of the same), use spells with no somantic component, or use spells that have very long durations (hour+) so you could cast before you put on your armor.

You could also consider adding levels of magus or alchemist. They also use intelligence as their casting stat.

We can give you better suggestions with more info on the situation. What feats, traits, and or skill ranks do you have. Are you using the hero point system.

The group has a cleric so I would think a 1 level dip just to use a magic item is not necessary (but some of the 1st level domain powers can be nice).

The group has a single class sorc (blaster, crowd control, or buffer?), so you do have a primary arcane caster.

What it comes down to is, what do you want to be able to do with the character?


Shield slam and greater bull rush is all sorts of fun. If you want to do something else, try bard and/or the steel falcon prestige. First round inspire while your party swarms the enemy, next round bull rush so they all get AoOs..

Simpler fix, make sure you have UMD maxed. Even consider additional traits for dangerously curious or the like to get it higher. Wands are fun for status removal, anti-swarm, utility..


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Asmodeus Pet wrote:

Hi everyone,

I used to paly AD&D a looooong time ago and recently I was invited to ...Should I go on as a fighter?? Should I switch to Barbarian??? I sport a chainmail so I suppose it's doable...and Rage is fun.
...
I'm sorry for the looong post but I felt it needed to be =)

Live long and prosper

Peace and long life.

If I were in your shoes:
1)I'd ask for a rebuild/retrain or simply come in with a new character entirely.

2) Otherwise, I'd stick with fighter as others have said you are already 7 levels in.

If you really need a healer...you may consider taking Leadership as your 7th level feat. Your current leadership score (barring other factors) would be level+charisma mod=>7+1=8 which would be a 5th level follower. You could take a 5th level cleric as a follower then. Just make sure he has the Selective Channel feat and stays escorted/in the back.

Though with +4 Vorpals...I am not sure any amount of healing is going to be enough against what you may be facing :)


Well, its tough. As Kydeem de'Morcaine said, its very difficult to jump to a full caster at level 7.

I guess the question at hand is really this, what sort of effects are you really looking for?

My best suggestion would be to simply take the Additional Traits feat to get Dangerously Curious. This makes Use Magic Device a class skill for you, and gives you a +1 on the check. So, if you take this feat at level 9 (the next time you get a feat) and start jamming ranks into UMD at level 8, you should be good. You are getting 7 skill points per level with your high int and human bonus, so you will have max ranks at level 9.

That will give you 9 ranks, +1 for the trait, +3 for being a class skill, +1 for charisma. If you get an opportunity to buy an item, pick up a Circlet of Persuasion for another +3. At level 11 take Magical Knack for another +4.

So at level 9 with a circlet you will have a +17
Adding 2 more ranks and Magical Knack at 11 will give you a +23

You only need to pass a DC 20 check to activate any wand, so you are going to make that automatically at 11, and 90% of the time at 9th.

Your high int will also be a huge help here. You can cast scrolls using UMD as well, and you won't have to emulate an ability score for any Wizard spell up to level 8. So the check will be DC 20 + Caster level. Scroll CL, unless specifically stated otherwise, is the minimum needed to cast a spell.

So, you can cast, say a level 5 wizard spell from a scroll with a DC 29 UMD check. Far from impossible at level 11.

Once you hit 13, if you want to keep investing, you can pick up Skill Focus: Use magic Device for another +6. Again, 2 more ranks, so at 13 your check would be +31. This would mean that you could activate a Wizard Scroll of up to level 6th with no chance of failure. You could also activate an 8th level scroll with a DC 37 check (75% odds)

So, that is the best bet. Start picking up some healing wands, and a few scrolls, and you can get access to a lot of spells.

As a fighter feat you may also want to grab Quickdraw so you can pull out a wand, use it, and get back to your weapons with ease. Buy an Efficient Quiver, the second compartment can hold up to 18 wands, which then act like they are in a scabbard, allowing you to use quickdraw to grab any of them.


I woudl say go fighter 8 for improved critical and (if you already have not done it) put all your skill points into UMD (and buy some masterwok tools) so you can use some wands.

Spend the +1 in dex for better saves, AC and initiative.


I guess my long intro was not long enough =)

We were teleported into Rappan Athuk, we have taken over a hobgoblin tribe that can maybe help us with food, berries, herbs etc for an alchemist.
We have no stores whatsoever available, so buying stuff is out of the question =(

Just realized I can not do Barbarian as I am Lawful Evil.

The GM will not let me do a make-over and that is fine, sometimes everything is not exactly what you want =)

My feats and skills are all over the place...with my high int I have an absolute load of them..Climb, Swimming, Perception and a bunch of knowledge skills (NOT planes or religion)

Feats
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round)
Great Cleave
Improved Initiative
Martial Weapon Proficiency - All
Power Attack -2/+4
Shield Proficiency
Shield Wall
Simple Weapon Proficiency - All
Surprise Follow-Through
Tower Shield Proficiency
Weapon Focus (Battleaxe)
Weapon Specialization (Battleaxe)

Next level I will take improved critical for my long sword, and I believe I can re-train one of my current feats.

This build was made by the GM and I know some feats are not even available for me (surprise follow through) the skills was put in as he saw fit and I will not argue but accept what I have to deal with =)

When it comes to dipping for availability of class-bound items, we are without shops...we find all kind of amazing stuff in the belly of Rappan, but so far nothing worhy of persuing a new class.

I guess all this makes it hard for new classes...a wizard needs a spell book I guess....
For a cleric I assume our current cleric could initiate me
An alchemist....he sounds interesting and I will look into him a bit closer...
The Magus is also under consideration

Thanks for all input...I also want to say we are mainly playing for sentimental and pure fun reasons, so we do not care if we are a wee bit off from maximization, but it would be great to survive Rappan and maybe killing the enemies before they can hit us.

Maybe I should also mention that we have competition in the dungeons, our GM is playing 3 groups (evil, neutral and good) simultanously, so we cant take to much time off walking around the world looking for a store as that would leave our "competition ahead of us when we inevetably and finally will run into them. There can be only one !!! =)

Time to sleep, but again, thanks for all input and I'm sure I will be back for more.


Found my skills and more feats .

Skill Name Total Ability Ranks Temp
Acrobatics +2 DEX (3) -
Appraise +4 INT (4) -
Bluff +1 CHA (1) -
Climb +15 STR (6) 7
Diplomacy +1 CHA (1) -
Disguise +1 CHA (1) -
Escape Artist +2 DEX (3) -
Fly +2 DEX (3) -
Handle Animal +5 CHA (1) 1
Heal +4 WIS (1) 3
Intimidate +12 CHA (1) 7
Compass: +2 circumstance bonus to navigate underground
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9 INT (4) 2
Knowledge (engineering) +10 INT (4) 3
Knowledge (history) +6 INT (4) 2
Knowledge (nature) +11 INT (4) 7
Perception +18 WIS (1) 7
Ride +6 DEX (3) 1
Sense Motive +1 WIS (1) -
Stealth +6 DEX (3) 4
Compass: +2 circumstance bonus to avoid becoming lost when using
this
Survival +11 WIS (1) 7
Swim +12 STR (6) 4

Feats
Armor Proficiency (Heavy)
Armor Proficiency (Light)
Armor Proficiency (Medium)
Cleave


If you are a twoer shield user then your priority shoudl be feats that increase your low DPR. More points to improved critical.


I do not use a tower shield, just have the feat for free as a fighter.


Well, firstly it looks like you are missing a feat (I'll assume its Cleave since you couldn't have great cleave otherwise)

Well... retraining will be your friend from here on out. You will want to drop Cleave, Great Cleave, and Surprise Follow Through ASAP. Cleave is just not what it used to be. It is a trap option. You can't use it as part of a full attack, you take -2 ac for using it, and the targets need to be adjacent both to you and to each other for it to even work. This makes great cleave even more impossible, since you need to have three targets all standing in a row, and by 11th level you can just make three attacks in a round.

As a fighter, if you are going to use a longsword, there is no reason that you can't (A)start toward shield bashing feats or (B) start using your longsword as a Two-Handed weapon.

But man alive you are stuck.
If you really just got handed a longsword...
I mean you have the following useless feats:
1. Cleave
2. Great Cleave
3. Surprise Follow Through
4. Weapon Focus (for a weapon you are no longer using)
5. Weapon Spec, (ditto)
6. Shield Wall

Without a complete overhaul, I don't know what to say... as a fighter, you have effectively lost all of your bonus feats and more... its hard to suggest much of anything. Even Combat Reflexes is a bit of a wash here since you aren't using a reach weapon. I mean, if you have weapon training in axes, you are better off using a +2 axe and never even bothering with the vorpal longsword.

But alright... here is my suggestion. Sticking with fighter.

Lvl 8 - Retrain shield wall to get Improved Shield Bash, Take Two-Weapon Fighting
Lvl 9 - Take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Lvl 10 - Take Shield Slam
Lvl 11 - Take Shield Master
Lvl 12 - Retrain Surprise Follow Through to take Double Slice, Take Two-Weapon Rend

That will remedy at least some of your build worries.


Thanks Malkov,

(The cleave feat is listed on the post with my skills, sorry for the confusion)

As I mentioned we are kind of noobs to pathfinder and we realise a bunch of flaws in our builds while we are playing, but then again playing a slightly flawed character can be fun from a roleplaying perspective.

To give you an idea of how flawed I can tell you that I am a human and all the others are creatures with dark vision, so imagine me in a dark dungeon fumbling around blindly, or me lightning my torch ruining everyone elses vision....and any posibility to surprise anyone/anything.
An absolutely amazing relic eye solved that problem though....but just last playing occation.

I was an axe fighter, BUT when we got the +4 vorpal longsword I cant see myself using my +2 battle axe. Even withe the axe feats I feel the sword is better. Also our GM has "cards" to decide the effects of a critical hit, and the effects can be pretty devestating (This also means that the axe's x3 damage does NOT come into play). With the long sword's crit range 17-20 (with improved crit feat) I feel I must use it. Also from a roleplaying perspective it makes sense for me to use it, as I was the one solving the puzzle to get it.

Much of our tactics are to NOT get hit and that means AC boost, the shield wall feat gives +2 for AC when next to my Hobgoblin fighter friend. It also cancels out the - 2AC for cleave. Cleave has actually been handy so far, so that would probably be the last thing I retrain.

I will look closer to your feat suggestions though =)

Why would I want to use the longsword twohanded? Wouldn't I loose tons of AC?? In trade for what??

If I go shield bashing with two weapons feat, would that effect the AC? What would be the upside?

How do I retrain feats and how often can I do it?

Again thanks for all help guys!!

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