So lets talk HUD

[Ashgan]

Watched the newest video and would like to poke out one or two details that I hope gets changed. If you disagree or have some of your own input please add it. Keep in mind that I am hoping that these ideas will be optional for anyone who likes it more traditional.
Finally before anyone states it I'm well aware that its probably a rough HUD that will get updated/redesigned possibly so I'm just throwing this out there now while its still early.

First and the big one is the bottom HUD this is a plague on MMO's as often you get stuck watching the bottom of the screen instead of what is happening and enjoying the game because you have to keep an eye on cooldowns and such. While I do remember reading something about attacks not having cooldowns but longer animations, however with that said there is still the 6 second stamina bar or whatever it was cooldown refresh bar that you will have to constantly look down for.
As for solution put the bar (I guess optionally would be best for anyone who does like it on bottom) next to the character that or create some sort of visual for every time it recharges, either way I would prefer to have my eyes naturally in center of the screen rather then at the bottom half the time.
I remember roughly something about feats going on cooldown this again can be solved by giving an optional icon in center near the character displaying the cooldown timer with the abilities icon.

The second thing is if it can be added is a shutdown of most of the HUD when not used. Personally I hate screen clutter when things are not being used, and usually the only options are turn entire HUD on or off.(which usually has the unfortunate side effect that you loose chat)
One of a few solutions would be add options to fade out completely certain parts of HUD when not in combat. Alternatively adding a button that would partially remove hud but not the entire thing (probably with an options section for which parts it would hide)

Third thing while I'm hoping is in the works I'm putting it down anyways of adding HP bars on top of enemies/friendly heads. While it does add more screen clutter if done right as in only when say the friendly/enemy is damaged again allows you to keep your attention on screen instead of bars and doodads on the sidelines.

[Being]

I think the button bars are convenient reminders for my keymapping, though I'd like them to be movable and resizable. If you map keys and remember them, you don't have to look at the buttons at all except to remind yourself which button triggers which event.

[Ashgan]

Being wrote:

I think the button bars are convenient reminders for my keymapping, though I'd like them to be movable and resizable. If you map keys and remember them, you don't have to look at the buttons at all except to remind yourself which button triggers which event.

*sighs* maybe I didn't explain it clearly I tend to do that, my problem isn't the button bars themselves as I do not have problems memorizing. My issue is with cooldowns and bars that are shoved all around the screen making you look every which way but in the center where your character is.

In an FPS that is not a problem as my character is right behind the camera but since that is not the case and optimally the primary mode of play is not in first person then I would like to keep my eyes on the center of the screen where my character is. (also all/most of the action does not require you to look elsewhere in an FPS other then say the ammo count)

Edit: at least I'm assuming you were responding to me and not throwing your own input in by mentioning looking at keys( if I'm wrong my apologies)

[Nihimon]

@Ashgan, I agree with virtually everything in your OP. I really like the recommendation to be able to turn off individual HUD elements, or even custom groups of HUD elements.

As for Cooldowns, I'd go so far as to even recommend certain sound queues for when particular abilities come off of cooldown; with less than a dozen active abilities (including feats), I would think it would be pretty easy to come up with an appropriate suite of sound queues.

I expect Being was just riffing off of your post and throwing in his own little solo. For my part, I hope that we'll be able to completely hide the hotbar.

I think the only way to really solve the UI problems you're talking about is to allow the UI to be extensively customized. Some folks really like having all the information in the center (bottomish); others really like having it spread around on the corners. It's probably a daunting task to expect the dev team to be able to provide sufficient variety to please everyone, but a vibrant modding community can produce some really stellar stuff.

[Keovar]

The flexibility of the UI is the one thing I truly miss from WoW. I would like the UI to be very customizable, and not so crowded that scaling it up so I can read it won't make it cluttered with overlapping elements. Context-appropriate elements would help, so some things hide automatically when they're not relevant. I suppose 'always on', 'always off', and a 'context-appropriate' (possibly with a deeper level of customization for what is considered relevant when) would be good.

I use a desktop gamepad (Belkin Nostromo n52) and would like to make the hotbar morphable so it's laid out in the same way the gamepad is. A horizontal row matches a horizontal row of number keys, but what if you want to map them to a numpad, or the G-keys some Logitech devices have? Would the game be playable (apart from chat) with a hand-held gamepad like consoles use?

[Nihimon]

Keovar wrote:

I use a desktop gamepad (Belkin Nostromo n52)...

I do too and I absolutely love it. I just wish I could find a similar device that was a mirror image of it with a mouse trackball instead of a direction-pad. And I wouldn't mind another row and another column of buttons. And move the scroll wheel out of the buttons and put a regular button where it is now.

But other than that it's perfect :)

[Keovar]

Nihimon wrote:

Keovar wrote:

I use a desktop gamepad (Belkin Nostromo n52)...

I do too and I absolutely love it. I just wish I could find a similar device that was a mirror image of it with a mouse trackball instead of a direction-pad. And I wouldn't mind another row and another column of buttons. And move the scroll wheel out of the buttons and put a regular button where it is now.

But other than that it's perfect :)

Yeah, unfortunately the 'Tournament Edition' model and the Raser version are downgrades from the regular n52, though much of that could be fixed with a firmware/driver/profile-GUI update to re-add features that were lost. The Logitech G13 is pretty good too, but I still find the n52 software easier to use and don't currently need the few extra buttons the G13 provides, so it's on the shelf for now.

I use a trackball on my right hand too, and a few more buttons there could be helpful, since I use the two programmable ones I've got for my magnification (and contrast inverter) program.

[Proxima Sin]

Is it really hard to make each element of the GUI it's own piece with resize, snap to, pin/unpin, and show/hide?

[Nihimon]

My ultimate goal is to be able to game in my recliner. The Nostromo in my left hand and a versatile trackball in my right would go a long way towards that. Of course, I've been spoiled with three monitors for a while now...

[Keovar]

Nihimon wrote:

My ultimate goal is to be able to game in my recliner. The Nostromo in my left hand and a versatile trackball in my right would go a long way towards that. Of course, I've been spoiled with three monitors for a while now...

My ultimate goal is to get a datajack (preferably wireless so there's no port to constantly worry about getting infected) to bypass my damaged optic nerves and make input peripherals obsolete. :P

[Nihimon]

Keovar wrote:

My ultimate goal is to get a datajack (preferably wireless so there's no port to constantly worry about getting infected) to bypass my damaged optic nerves and make input peripherals obsolete. :P

Yeah, I'm ready to jack into the matrix, too :)

I often wonder if that's not the real answer to the Fermi Paradox.

[DeciusBrutus]

I see seven or eight critically important UI elements that inform immediate choices: PC health, stamina, and regen timer, target health, PC effects, target effects, and possibly the map (for situational awareness). Putting all seven in center-screen would obscure everything else, so they go on the periphery.

With the number of status effects that the combat blogs indicated would be relevant, I expect to need at least a 64x64px icon to rapidly recognize which are active, and enough room for at least six- that takes up a decent chunk of screen real estate, and I do not want that blocked in center screen.

[Ashgan]

DeciusBrutus wrote:

I see seven or eight critically important UI elements that inform immediate choices: PC health, stamina, and regen timer, target health, PC effects, target effects, and possibly the map (for situational awareness). Putting all seven in center-screen would obscure everything else, so they go on the periphery.

With the number of status effects that the combat blogs indicated would be relevant, I expect to need at least a 64x64px icon to rapidly recognize which are active, and enough room for at least six- that takes up a decent chunk of screen real estate, and I do not want that blocked in center screen.

*sighs* I must have mentioned optional at least twice in there -_-

[Keovar]

If there were a simple set of symbols for status effects (blood drop for bleed effects, skull'n'bones for poison, a turtle for slow effects, a bull head for bull's strength, etc.) then the symbols could be smaller, and just appear in a row above one's health. Hovering over the symbols could give detail about specific effects and their magnitude, but a countdown to when something is going to wear off could be just above the symbol. Basically, keep from making it too 'busy' with art and the symbol can be more recognizable with fewer pixels.

The stamina regen timer need not be it's own bar, it could be a much thinner bar inlaid on the stamina bar itself.

[Ashgan]

Keovar wrote:

The stamina regen timer need not be it's own bar, it could be a much thinner bar inlaid on the stamina bar itself.

If you look at the video I'm pretty sure that is how it works right now, regardless I'd rather have a bar on the side that is lateral rather then horizontal maybe even sethrough but that's an extra.

Edit: and again on the side of the character where I can see it and the action not where I have to look around for it.

[Keovar]

Ashgan wrote:

Keovar wrote:

The stamina regen timer need not be it's own bar, it could be a much thinner bar inlaid on the stamina bar itself.

If you look at the video I'm pretty sure that is how it works right now...

To me, it looks like a thinner but separate bar, stuck under the stamina bar. There's actually no reason it need be a bar at all, though. There could be a d6 (with pips, not digits) that flips one face per second, counting up to six or down to one. Die faces are easier to read in one's peripheral vision than a bar or numbers. It only needs to appear when you're in combat, searching a husk, or doing some other activity that has a 6-second timer, and you could alter it's placement, scale, and transparency.

Set a hotkey for putting the UI in 'editable' mode in which you can drag parts around, change colours (or enable colour-blind mode), set transparency, alter scaling, turn on or off a grid overlay which elements would snap to, etc. Use that hotkey again and your UI is locked and won't be accidentally altered during play.

You could even have multiple UI configurations that change dependent upon hotkey-press or automatically via context, so you have a 'normal' UI that brings chat into focus, a 'combat' UI that moves your vitals and skill elements into more comfortable view, a 'crafting' UI that makes your inventory more convenient, etc.

Let the settings be imported and exported via TXT files so people who enjoy tinkering with the UI can share their creations.

[Ashgan]

Keovar wrote:

Ashgan wrote:

Keovar wrote:

The stamina regen timer need not be it's own bar, it could be a much thinner bar inlaid on the stamina bar itself.

If you look at the video I'm pretty sure that is how it works right now...

To me, it looks like a thinner but separate bar, stuck under the stamina bar. There's actually no reason it need be a bar at all, though. There could be a d6 (with pips, not digits) that flips one face per second, counting up to six or down to one. Die faces are easier to read in one's peripheral vision than a bar or numbers. It only needs to appear when you're in combat, searching a husk, or doing some other activity that has a 6-second timer, and you could alter it's placement, scale, and transparency.

Set a hotkey for putting the UI in 'editable' mode in which you can drag parts around, change colours (or enable colour-blind mode), set transparency, alter scaling, turn on or off a grid overlay which elements would snap to, etc. Use that hotkey again and your UI is locked and won't be accidentally altered during play.

You could even have multiple UI configurations that change dependent upon hotkey-press or automatically via context, so you have a 'normal' UI that brings chat into focus, a 'combat' UI that moves your vitals and skill elements into more comfortable view, a 'crafting' UI that makes your inventory more convenient, etc.

Let the settings be imported and exported via TXT files so people who enjoy tinkering with the UI can share their creations.

Definately would love this amount of customization. Normally I don't have too many problems with HUDS in games, but MMO's tend to always create one that has you looking everywhere but at the game... well that is my experience anyways.

[Nihimon]

Ashgan wrote:

Normally I don't have too many problems with HUDS in games, but MMO's tend to always create one that has you looking everywhere but at the game... well that is my experience anyways.

I really don't know how much work it would take, but I've always thought it would be awesome if there were enough queues in the game that you could realistically play with the UI turned off. If they take a minimalist approach to debuffs, it seems like they could be represented as runes floating around the character.

[randomwalker]

Ashgan wrote:

Definately would love this amount of customization. Normally I don't have too many problems with HUDS in games, but MMO's tend to always create one that has you looking everywhere but at the game... well that is my experience anyways.

Give us also customization for the complete opposite reason: refining, crafting, trading and settlement management.

I'd love to have a minimal GUI for exploring, a bit more for fighting and option to go full clutter for hanging around and making money.

[Nihimon]

randomwalker wrote:

I'd love to have a minimal GUI for exploring, a bit more for fighting and option to go full clutter for hanging around and making money.

That's a great idea. I'd love to be able to customize the UI so that different elements were only displayed when the character is in certain states.