PDF maps with online VTT gaming

[TexasStu]

I find trying to extract layers of the PDF maps exhausting and unnecessarily difficult in using an AP (which I'm a current subscriber of).
Most aren't situated as rural as myself. I am finding I'd love to run a couple games/week on Roll20 but the conversion time is prohibitive to doing so.
I guess my main question is how can I create online campaigns using Pathfinder APs and adapt the maps without a major conversion process? Why can't I just have access to each layer without a difficult process of separating the labeled layer from the 'map version' layer?
I apologize for resurrecting an old thread. I have gone as far as getting the print editions so I feel I should be able to quickly and easily download the PDF and copy/select/paste a map or image to my online campaign. So far the complexity has kept me from even bothering to get into running an AP online, that it's actually easier to search and download someone else's low res map from an AP from the net than to use your quality hi res map that I paid for from your AP. I find this to be anti productive to my wishes to get back into GMing (after 30+ years). How can I remedy this (other than unsubscribe or make my own unlabeled maps)?
Thanks for considering your online GMs as well (a growing subset)
Stu

[Lochar]

Texas,

If you open the PDF up in Adobe Reader, you can click on the map image, Ctrl C to copy it, then Ctrl V to paste it into mspaint. No labels come through that way, then you can save it as a .jpg and toss it into roll20. Takes me about 2-3 minutes per map, including any resizing.

[Tangent101]

It depends on the PDF. The PDF of just the maps by themselves are "interactive" and apparently won't copy. Unless they found a way to fix that...

Personally, I'm disappointed with one of the PDFs I recently purchased for the maps in Runelords. It's missing the Catacombs under Sandpoint, the final encounter with Karzoug, and several other maps. I half-suspect the maps are from the original series rather than the Anniversary Edition, and if I'd known that when I purchased it, I'd not have purchased it.

[Lochar]

True. I don't touch the interactive maps PDF. It drags down my machine to a laughable point.

[Tangent101]

It drags my machine which can run Skyrim with dozens of mods smoothly down to a pathetic level. Seriously, Paizo. It won't cost any extra for the pixels to just double the number of maps (player vs. GM). The Interactive maps are a failure. It's likely Adobe's fault, but when you have to work with the tools provided then you have to compensate for those tools.

[Lochar]

Honestly, I'd love a bunch of watermarked .png files that I can just load up, but I know that won't happen.

And yeah, my PC runs Skyrim and everything else without a hiccup. Four different PDF programs choke on the interactive PDFs.

[TexasStu]

I don't think requiring subscriber to purchase Adobe (as the free PDF reader: Acrobat Reader apparently isn't the same?) is problematic. Apparently my issue is not a singular issue and is a problem with many who wants to play the AP on a VTT?
ANY chance of Paizo grabbing the BULL by the horns here and giving your committed customers a little love with regards to maps and VTT?
After spending hundreds deciding on a system coming back into FRPGing and now spending hundreds on Pathfinder, subscribing to AP path and committing to Golarion I would really appreciate not regretting my choice based on my necessity for VTT gaming based on my extremely rural lifestyle. I would still use the products in live gaming with 1 or two players but to be able to do APs on Roll20 and get back into GMing properly would be preferred.
Thanks for revisiting this issue with me.
Stu

[archmagi1]

For Roll20, it is a lot easier since it has the align to grid tool, but historically, I've not had any problems selecting the image with Adobe Reader (the free pdf reader is Adobe Reader. Acrobat is the authoring software) using the arrow tool, copy, then paste into paint (or GIMP), save as a bmp (or PNG), then toss into VTT. You're gonna run into problems, though, with the row:column pixel ratio being off due to whatever reason and the grid will need a bit of tweaking to get your VTT to like the gridding already on the image.

At worst, you can always print screen the map and paste into your image editor.

[Tangent101]

I personally wonder if Paizo is going to put out their own VTT. They could either have the VTT as a free program and have people purchase data packs for either modules or AP, or sell the VTT itself as well. If things just lined up without a problem and was easy to use, I suspect Paizo would have a winner on their hands.

[Liz Courts]

Tangent101, check out Paizo GameSpace.

[Tinalles]

To the OP:

To quickly extract images from the AP PDFs, try Nitro Reader. It's a PDF viewer. It has a handy "Extract Images" button, which will dump all the images in the file into a folder of your choosing. I use it for extracting maps from AP things all the time. It's free. Though they do want an email address (if that bothers you, give 'em a fake one).

I also bought PDFs of all four bestiaries so I could make a library of monster tokens for use in MapTool. If you are doing something similar and have a full size book to extract, you may want to use the "one file per chapter" option when you download the book from Paizo. Nitro Reader may choke when extracting images from unusually large files.

Tangent101 wrote:

I personally wonder if Paizo is going to put out their own VTT.

That would be Paizo GameSpace. It's in closed beta.

Edit: Gninja'd! XD

[TexasStu]

Thanks Tinalles. I just tried the Adobe Reader on an interactive map (again) and still not having much luck. I change it to 1 page from 2, turn map tags off, try to copy and it blinks 3 times and ...nothing.
PaintShop sees nothing in clipboard to paste as new image and I get frustrated after trying about a dozen times with every method I can think of.
I'll try Nitro.
I believe I should have the permission to use these in my online games the same as someone can use them who prints theirs out for their table games. /sigh.

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[TexasStu]

Nitro only extracts backgrounds, title banner and cover page graphics from my interactive map PDF.

[Lochar]

Rip it out of the standard PDF, not the interactive map one.

[Tinalles]

Yeah. The standard one is the way to go.

The interactive bits of the PDF are cute but largely useless in a VTT -- because any VTT worth its salt has built-in mechanisms for hiding and revealing map information, and those will depend on having the map in the VTT's own format.

Fortunately Paizo is generally pretty good about keeping map labels and things separate from the map image. Once in a while they'll slip up and get a S marking for a secret door burned into the image -- Harrowstone Prison, I'm looking at YOU -- but for the most part you should be able to pull them out of the main PDF and use them.

That also has the advantage of getting you the NPC portraits, which can be used for making tokens.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

Tinalles wrote:

Fortunately Paizo is generally pretty good about keeping map labels and things separate from the map image. Once in a while they'll slip up and get a S marking for a secret door burned into the image -- Harrowstone Prison, I'm looking at YOU -- but for the most part you should be able to pull them out of the main PDF and use them.

Has anyone reported that error? I'm sure they would fix it so people could download a corrected version.

[Tinalles]

Dunno. I haven't. Where would I report it?

[Vic Wertz]

Extracting maps from our PDFs requires only that you have the right PDF and the right software (or, at least, not the *wrong* software).

The right PDF is the non-interactive PDF. Image extraction does not work with the interactive PDFs; that's not our doing‚ it's Adobe's (and I have no expectation that it will change).

I can't tell you what the right software is, as that'll depend on your OS and your own personal preference, but I can tell you what the *wrong* software is: Adobe Reader 9, on any platform. For some reason, they disabled image extraction in that version; it returned in Reader X, though.

There's another issue with Reader, though, and that's that sometime in the Reader lifecycle—I think in one of the revisions to Reader X—Adobe seems to have removed the ability to select page backgrounds for extraction, and that means that you can no longer extract an image when the image *is* the entire page.

[Vic Wertz]

Tinalles wrote:

Dunno. I haven't. Where would I report it?

I've passed your note on. (You could post that sort of thing in the discussion thread for the appropriate product.)

[Vic Wertz]

Tangent101 wrote:

Personally, I'm disappointed with one of the PDFs I recently purchased for the maps in Runelords. It's missing the Catacombs under Sandpoint, the final encounter with Karzoug, and several other maps. I half-suspect the maps are from the original series rather than the Anniversary Edition, and if I'd known that when I purchased it, I'd not have purchased it.

Yes—the product you purchased was the PDF edition of an accessory designed for use with the original six-volume edition of the AP. The product listing was less than clear on that point, so I've updated the product description, and I'll ask customer service to refund your purchase.

We do have an interactive map PDF for the Anniversary Edition, but, as noted above, it's not compatible with image extraction tools. If you want to extract maps for the Anniversary Edition, you'll need the full Anniversary Edition PDF.

[Tinalles]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Tinalles wrote:

Dunno. I haven't. Where would I report it?

I've passed your note on. (You could post that sort of thing in the discussion thread for the appropriate product.)

Good to know, and thanks. If I come across another snafu like that, I'll post it in the product discussion.

[Are]

Slightly related: Would it be legal to post such extracted images (of maps, monsters, or NPCs) online for the purpose of showing the players involved with a PBP game?

[TexasStu]

Thank you Vic. I'll look for the unlabeled maps in the standard PDF for use in a VTT campaign I run. Obviously having labels on a virtual tabletop map lessens the immersion for players.
Stu

[Lochar]

Are wrote:

Slightly related: Would it be legal to post such extracted images (of maps, monsters, or NPCs) online for the purpose of showing the players involved with a PBP game?

I'm not part of Paizo, but from what I've seen in the Pathfinder Society world and whatnot, the answer is 'not if it's publicly accessible' because then you're sharing out their copyrighted material.

I'd say toss it up on a Dropbox share and manipulate the tokens on it yourself when the players move. Or onto a VTT, link them into the VTT, and do the movement and everything for them there as a static map.

[Haladir]

[Paizo staff: Please correct me if I'm wrong...]

My understanding is that you cannot make the maps available for public viewing (i.e. on an open website like Obsidian Portal), but you can use them in a private online game in a VTT that's invite-only.

It's also my understanding that drawing your own functionally equivalent map and making it available is acceptable under the Community Use Policy.

[ryric]

A (windows) workaround when you want a full page image or want an easy way to get all the layers at once(I do this with handouts, as just copying the image only gets the background, often not the text), is to open the PDF, and when it's displayed on your screen, hit your PrtScn button on the upper right of your keyboard. That copies your current screen display to your clipboard. You can then paste it into Paint, Gimp, Photoshop, etc., and crop it to just the map/image you want.

I hope it's okay to copy images into VTT software like Maptools, as long as it's for a private password-protected game.

[Vic Wertz]

Haladir wrote:

[Paizo staff: Please correct me if I'm wrong...]

My understanding is that you cannot make the maps available for public viewing (i.e. on an open website like Obsidian Portal), but you can use them in a private online game in a VTT that's invite-only.

It's also my understanding that drawing your own functionally equivalent map and making it available is acceptable under the Community Use Policy.

All correct.

[BobROE]

You can also use the "Take a Snapshot" tool in Acrobat reader to copy maps in InteractiveMap files. At least in Acrobat Reader XI, and the RotR file.

[Grayn]

"Take a Snapshot" is what I use and then just paste it onto something (paint usually). I can then download it onto my VTT without any real issue.

The only problem I've been having is the quality of the image is pretty shabby. Things are really fuzzy for the players.

[Kelarith]

I've been using nitro reader, which has a function that will extract the images from the pdf. This makes it very easy to use them in Fantasy Grounds or other VTTs. Just been forewarned that it extracts ALL the images, which means the borders, backgrounds, icons, etc. A typical extract will pull hundreds of images, but it saves them all individually, so they're easy to find.