Help with training druid animal companion as mount


Rules Questions


I'm helping my wife build a druid for her first ever PF character and she wants to roll a gnome druid with a wolf companion that she rides as a mount. I'm having some trouble pinning down the specifics of how that breaks down in terms of tricks/training. It gets seven tricks (six from INT plus the companion bonus trick), so it looks like she needs to give it Combat Training to make it rideable (and viable in combat), which leaves one trick which should probably go into the second level Attack so it's viable against undead/aberrations. But...she also wants it to be able to Track, which seems obvious since it's a wolf and has Scent.

So, am I correct that she won't be able train her companion to Track until it can put a bonus point into INT at level four to give it new trick slots? Is she better off skipping the second-level Attack in favor of Track instead? And lastly, is she required to buy an exotic saddle in order to ride her wolf?


Raising the animal's Intelligence from 2 to 3 doesn't give it extra tricks. However, her animal companion will gain another bonus trick at level 3 and every 3 levels afterward.

You'll have to use your judgment as to whether Track is more or less useful than "Attack Horrible Things", as it will vary hugely from campaign to campaign. Alternately, think about the characters (both druid and companion) and decide what the animal would be more likely to know.

As for using an exotic saddle, yes, as wolves aren't really built for riding. Your GM might rule that riding dogs can be ridden with regular-cost saddles in areas that have a lot of Small riders, and that would likely transfer to riding a wolf, so check with him/her.


Thanks. So the number of tricks an animal has based on INT is only for determining the number of tricks it starts with and it doesn't change if the stat changes?


The number of tricks is specified for Intelligence scores of 1 or 2 (see the Handle Animal skill). The pattern doesn't extend past that, as animals normally cannot achieve such scores. Animal companions are special in that they can acquire higher intelligence.

The rules don't actually cover the idea of Intelligence 3 animals, so your GM is free to rule that it either gains extra tricks or (if the animal learns a language by spending a Linguistics point) no longer really needs tricks. I prefer interpreting thusly: Handle Animal still applies if you want to be able to *make* your animal do something, but simple speech can request a behavior if the animal can understand you--keeping in mind that even with a shared language, the animal has depressingly low Intelligence and may not understand your request unless it's "find smell" or "kill icky thing".

Some interesting info on intelligent animals, though it doesn't address the question of extra trick slots for higher Intelligence. The Animal Archive supplement may also be useful. This topic is of great interest to me, as my current character is accompanied by his trusty "dire pig" (read: boar) who is unusually smart and twice as good-looking.


The problem here might be that rules-wise an animal has either INT 1 or INT 2, which in turn gives it either 3 or 6 tricks.

BUT: the animal companion of a druid/ranger is rules-wise not an animal it's in its own category.

An AC with an INT of 3 does not have to rely on tricks (alone) but can put skill ranks in any skill.
If you spend a skill point on Linguistics your AC will be able to comprehend the druid's common language--with Survival being a class skill anyways you could now simply order/ask it to do some tracking.

Independent of the AC's INT you still need to do Handle Animal checks to get the AC to do what you want it to.

And, as always, using the search function might yield even more explainations. For starters go here.

Ruyan.

EDIT:13 min difference and blahpers' post wasn't showing... Ninja'ed by Squealy Nord.


Thanks, very helpful. Just to be clear, the ability to be ridden is part of the Combat Training "package" of tricks, right? She couldn't take five of the six CT tricks, plus Attack 2 and Track instead and still ride her companion?


Not at all; the package of tricks is just that, a package of tricks. Riding by itself only requires "come", "heel", and "stay", and you can try to get away with more if you're confident in your ability to push (note: not recommended, as it requires a longer action and is quite difficult). The other three tricks ("attack", "defend", and "guard") add the combat training. If you don't need "guard", for example, you could discard it, keeping in mind that the creature might not know enough to defend you from an approaching orc until it perceives that the orc is a threat to you or it. It may understand anyway, or it may not. The trick, along with the stipulation that animal companions follow their druid to the best of their ability, essentially guarantees that the animal will do the things you've trained it to do. Everything else is a function of (a) whether the animal can understand you, (b) whether it is smart enough to do the thing you've requested, and (c) whether it can overcome an opposing phenomenon that might prevent it from performing the requested task (e.g., fear, pain, strain, or even laziness).


Ah, gotcha! I failed to put together that the Combat Training purpose was just a combination of Fighting and Riding. Thanks for walking me through it.


blahpers wrote:

Raising the animal's Intelligence from 2 to 3 doesn't give it extra tricks. However, her animal companion will gain another bonus trick at level 3 and every 3 levels afterward.

Not true. PFS FAQ


That is a PFS FAQ, not a design team FAQ. This is a Pathfinder rules forum, not a PFS rules forum, and while PFS acknowledges and generally uses Pathfinder FAQs, they also implement their own interpretations and, on occasion, house rules. That entry contains several, including the idea that animals cannot take weapon feats--which they can, according to Paizo's own blog post mentioned above and subject to GM latitude, if they are capable of using the weapon (big if), though those feats may not be terribly useful if the animal doesn't like using those weapons.

(Edited for clarification.)


Yes, and the Handle Animal skill doesn't say that you don't get more tricks for Int higher than 2. It just says you get 3 tricks for 2 Int, and 6 tricks for a 3 Int. At the time, animals couldn't have an Int higher than 2 and still be animals. Which is why it says Int 2, not Int 2 or higher.

But the same blog post you linked states it is an intentional design choice to change that, so after raising your AC's Int to 3 or more they are still an animal.

The official blog doesn't address additional tricks, yea or nay. Animal Archive only discusses Awakened animals that I could see, not simply raising their Int. But the PFS FAQ does, using a progression derived from the Handle Animal skill (3 tricks per point of Int).

Since the PFS FAQ is the only place I can find that actually addresses the issue, it seems the most authoritative source to reference.


I will say this... as noted above, PFS and PF Paizo Designers have said a lot of things... but what has always made sense to the group I'm in now, is if you invest in the +1 Int, and 1 rank Linguistics for a language you and your companion then share, you no longer need tricks for "basic" commands that are easily understood, but you still need tricks for things like attacking a demon, flanking, heeling (contrary to popular belief, it is not a simple concept to "follow at my feet without question"), and so on. That's how we've been playing it, but obviously this is very much a GM thing. On the same note, really, the GM can opt for a lot of different ways of going about companions in general, whether you have full, limited, or virtually no actual control over the animal, how the 3 Int thing works, how you determine HP for the AC, and what feats "make sense" vs. "are available" and so on.


Samasboy1 wrote:
Since the PFS FAQ is the only place I can find that actually addresses the issue, it seems the most authoritative source to reference.

If that's what you consider authoritative, who am I to argue? But, in the end, PFS is just some guy's campaign with a whooooole lotta players.

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