Glaive use advice


Advice


My half-orc lore oracle 2/paladin of Shelyn 1 has just acquired a nifty magical glaive of awesomeness. Sounds good, right?

Nope!

I've observed that reach combat only works when you take advantage of AoO combined with combat maneuvers. Unfortunately, that's not an obtion for my character; he has a Dex of 9 and would get no benefit out of combat reflexes. And even if I did, I don't have the feats to burn for things like improved trip.

So how do I use this super awesome weapon to it's full advantage? As it stands now, I'm going to be forced into a corner due to the constant 5 foot steps I'll have to take away from the enemy; I thought reach was supposed to give in the edge in a brawl, not hinder you.


You know You can trip with out improved trip alot of the time,
You will provoke but if they don´t have a reach weapon they can´t use there attack of oppertunity any way they same goes for disarm,so it still gives you certain advantages if used clever.
It can also make it alot easyer to get into a flank position without provoking to move there.
But ofcourse a reach weapon will give you even more if you got a high dex dosn´t mean it is useless without just play the few benefits it will offer,


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Yeah...if you wanted to really get the most out of a reach weapon build it normally involves having higher dex and Combat Reflexes to get multiple AoOs per round. However, as the above poster pointed out it still has its uses even without. Lucking into a reach weapon doesn't mean its optimal for your build and should just pick it up on the spot and expect it to be awesome.

Find a way to become large size category (ring of enlarge person) and now you threaten from 15-20ft. Make sure you have either a gauntlet equipped or armor spikes or something similar and now you can make attacks and threaten at 5 and 10ft range as well.


Claxon wrote:

Lucking into a reach weapon doesn't mean its optimal for your build and should just pick it up on the spot and expect it to be awesome.

This is luck so much as a plot item. It started out as a sword and then changes into your deities favored weapon. Which unfortunately for me is a glaive.


Mmm....put it in the party loot? Does the group (of characters) actually know its a plot item?

If it doesn't work for your character don't use it and sell it instead. If you know its a plot item, then just set it aside. Don't be forced into something you don't want to use just because the GM through in a plot item.

Silver Crusade

I don't see the problem. Your PC doesn't need any special feats or high DEX to use reach tactics effectively. Sure, combat reflexes and a high DEX give multiple AoOs, but everyone still gets one AoO. Often the one AoO is all you will get, anyway. That's one more full strength attack than you'll get without a reach weapon. Plus, a glaive hits pretty hard. Plus, you will exert some battlefield control because foes may not want to give you that AoO. Also, you can sometimes flank from unusual angles. Just concentrate on always getting that ONE AoO and you're golden.

As another poster said, if you can find a way to be Enlarged it works even better: you get your AoO out to 20 feet and base damage is 2d8. I have a low DEX PC who uses a reach weapon with no feats, and it works fine.

On those rare occasions when you want to trip, there's no downside. Because you're doing it at reach your foe gets no AoO in return.

Your GM might let you threaten adjacent somehow, or not, but it really does not matter. Reach lets you threaten more squares than non-reach, period. Note: Magda is a Cleric of Shelyn


It should be pointed out that you can't trip with the glaive however.

Silver Crusade

MatthewN wrote:
It should be pointed out that you can't trip with the glaive however.

Yes you can! It's not a trip weapon, which means you don't get any bonuses to trip. You can still attempt a trip. Any weapon can attempt a trip.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Magda Luckbender wrote:
MatthewN wrote:
It should be pointed out that you can't trip with the glaive however.
Yes you can! It's not a trip weapon, which means you don't get any bonuses to trip. You can still attempt a trip. Any weapon can attempt a trip.

Actually you get a bonus to trip attempts equal to its enhancement bonus and any other feats that may affect glaives such as weapon focus. The only things that the trip property does now are allowing you to drop a weapon to avoid being tripped when you fail by 10 or more and to use the drag combat maneuver with the weapon.

LINK


Claxon wrote:

Mmm....put it in the party loot? Does the group (of characters) actually know its a plot item?

If it doesn't work for your character don't use it and sell it instead. If you know its a plot item, then just set it aside. Don't be forced into something you don't want to use just because the GM through in a plot item.

Well, it's somewhat complicated. The item is the "sword" Radiance in the Wrath of the Righteous AP. I don't know how important it is for the plot, but I do know that it is a mythic weapon that grows with the wielder. It also transforms into the favored weapon of the wielders deity. As far as I know, only paladins can use Radiance to its full effectiveness, and since I'm the only paladin...

Being that it is actually a pretty cool weapon, and powerful to boot, I'd rather not just toss it in the corner to collect dust. Especially since, from a role playing stand point, my character is honored to use it.


Problems like this were among the multitude of reasons I decided to not play in this AP.


Umbranus wrote:
Problems like this were among the multitude of reasons I decided to not play in this AP.

Well to be fair, the writers of the AP didn't know my dislike for reach weapons. I actually like the fact that the weapon adapts itself to fit the deity the character serves. I just regret that I picked a goddess with a reach weapon. :p


King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
Problems like this were among the multitude of reasons I decided to not play in this AP.
Well to be fair, the writers of the AP didn't know my dislike for reach weapons. I actually like the fact that the weapon adapts itself to fit the deity the character serves. I just regret that I picked a goddess with a reach weapon. :p

Yes, but a lot of gods have rather strange favoured weapons.

A Paladin of Kurgess, for example, would suddenly have an all mighty javelin. Good luck if he doesn't have a throwing build.

Other gods which could have paladins that could run into problems:
Irori, Korada (Unarmed strike)
Yuelral, Alseta (dagger)
Andoletta, Apsu, Folgrit (quarterstaff)
Erastil (Bow)
Abadar (light crossbow)

This list is by no means complete and still it has a significant number of deities on it that would have , or at least could have, a problem with this weapon.
As I do not have the AP to look it up I can't say if it actually CAN change into a ranged weapon. And if not what happens instead. But what it surely can not do is turn into an unarmed strike.

Grand Lodge

Don't forget you can ready a trip action for when a character comes within range. That's a sure way to ruin a melee character's day, and cause them to waste their standard action getting up.


Yeah...having a weapon turn into the deity's favored weapon is kind of a crappy mechanic. Especially since most deity favored weapons kind of suck.

The one way this could have worked out well is if you had been a paladin of erastil and focused on being a ranged paladin from the beginning. Probably would have worked out very well. Iomedae could have been okay since you could two hand a longsword for extra damage and at higher levels most damage comes from static modifiers not damage dice, but it still stinks by comparison to having an 18-20 crit range or big damage dice.

Perhaps you can talk to your DM about this and get him to change how the weapon functions? Instead of turning into a glaive it can be used as though it has the transformative quality.

The Exchange

take the lunge feat and attack from 10' away, and get an AoO when they walk up.

still not that big of a deal to me, reach is good even with out feat support.

The Exchange

Save up a bit and get a +4 dex item. Toss your next ability score bonus point into dex. Suddenly you have a 14 dex, 12 if you go with a +2 dex item....someone always tosses out a +2 dex item when they find +4 dex items so you could buy that from the group at the sale price of 1/2.
Alternately you could get the Transformative enchantment added to it for 10,000gp and use it as any medium-sized 2-handed weapon, whether you go with reach or not is up to you.
There are ways around this that won't kill your whole character ideal, you will just need to spend either gold, feats, bonus ability points or a combo of them to achieve it.


Well, as long as you are not prevented from taking a 5-foot step, you can just use the glaive as a pretty decent two-handed weapon. Anyone who gets in close gets a gauntlet to the face (and those come free with near-any medium or heavy armor). The glaive is still one of the better favored weapons you can get.


Talk to the GM about working with you. Either in character communing with the blade to convince it to take the shape of different weapon, or possibly house ruling the ability to choke up on a reach weapon as a swift action to toggle on/off it's reach.


There is a feat called Bladed Brush that allows you to shorten your grip on your glaive and use on adjacent opponents. The prereq is Weapon Focus and follower of Shelyn. It also allows you to use Weapon Finesse with your glaive.

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