What are YOUR houserules?


Homebrew and House Rules

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Rynjin wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
n the Idea that after level 5 the characters are far above the norm? we will just have to agree to disagree. Since I do not see that point happening until level 16 or so and even then I am not so sure.

It's pretty easily demonstrable. Level 6 is just ever so slightly above the norm. If you look at the amount of damage they can dish out or take, or the feats of skill they can accomplish easily, they are clearly mildly superhuman. They can accomplish things that even masters of their craft might find difficult. In game terms, they can Take 10 on a skill check a level 5 human master would have to roll on because he misses it by 1 if he Takes 10.

By level 10 it becomes VERY clear, just in the amount of punishment your character can take. The average Fighter can literally survive a fall from orbit or a short dip in lava, naked. No human can hope to accomplish these things, at least not with any reliability.

People tout the falling thing as being inaccurate "because people have survived falls like that before", but the thing is...not EVERYONE survives a fall like that. It's all a matter of luck.

Not so with the level 10 character.

And back to skills, a level 10 character can accomplish something a level 5 character would consider their magnum opus as a matter of course. That's clearly above anyone who's ever lived.

There are other ways to demonstrate it, but those are the most clear.

and here we see the differences in our approaches to gaming.

Dip naked in lava? I do not care what level you are... if you expect your character to survive that "because the numbers say so" move on to the next table cause that aint happening here.
PC are not gods among men just big damn heroes.

Rynjin wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:


That's where the take 10/take 20 rule comes.

I'm with Damian on this one (except that he got ride of the take 10/20), when you are under rushed or threatened conditions, there should be a chance of failure; even if the task is trivial. Is there are no rush or threat, then there shouldn't be a test at all IMO.

Put a gun on 20 people's head. Ask them to tie their shoes or else they're shot. Guarantied one will fail... (Damian is generous enough to say that 1 in 100 will fail).

You can't Take 10 on attack rolls and saves.

And even then,...

There are points/actions in a game where no roll is required. That is representative of the simple common everyday actions that hardly ever fail.

The "auto-fail" is to represent that odd time when "$#!+ happens."
The marker for what is a common no roll needed action does not move just because you got another rank/level or ten.


For what its worth Damian... the numbers say so because the game is deliberately presenting Lava in a way that PC's can- with enough hit points- survive contact or even immersion in it.

Not that making lava a force of nature which cannot be withstood is necessarily a bad thing. Just not part of the default assumptions.


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kyrt-ryder wrote:

For what its worth Damian... the numbers say so because the game is deliberately presenting Lava in a way that PC's can- with enough hit points- survive contact or even immersion in it.

Not that making lava a force of nature which cannot be withstood is necessarily a bad thing. Just not part of the default assumptions.

True enough...

Except part of the default assumptions (of nearly every TRPG) is that players will also apply "common" sense. (That is why Rule Zero exists).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Damian Magecraft wrote:


Except part of the default assumptions (of nearly every TRPG) is that players will also apply "common" sense.

Which isn't common nor even the same from person to person.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:


Except part of the default assumptions (of nearly every TRPG) is that players will also apply "common" sense.
Which isn't common nor even the same from person to person.

Sadly... true also.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Probably also other's houserules, yet this was a thread on what mine were -

1) Cohesive Group - You don't all have to be non-evil, yet for the sake of avoiding player conflicts, every PC should have a mindset that other party members are friends & allies (GURPS defined this as "thieves code" - even if evil, you stick by your allies).

2) Concentration stacks for all casting classes. - This means an Oracle 3, Wizard 3 would have concentration of 6 + Cha for Oracle spells, or 6 + Int for wizard spells.

3) No gunslingers - For Golarian campaigns, guns are allowed as rare, exotic weapons that many kingdoms declared "owned by nobility only" (Thus, why it isn't widespread out of Akenstar, while the expense makes it rare in the River Kingdoms). The gunslinger is a banned class, though any other class can still choose a firearms proficiency as an exotic weapon proficiency.


Damian Magecraft wrote:

and here we see the differences in our approaches to gaming.

Dip naked in lava? I do not care what level you are... if you expect your character to survive that "because the numbers say so" move on to the next table cause that aint happening here.
PC are not gods among men just big damn heroes.

Might as well have listed that as your houserule from the start and saved us a back and forth.

It's a houserule. It works for your group, so cool.

But still, the game itself is made with that kind of stuff in mind. It's why there's rule for it to begin with.

Saying "characters above level 6 aren't superhuman because I houserule them not to be" is a bit misleading.

Liberty's Edge

Great thread!

In my games, the pcs get their CON-Value (in addition to the modifier) as bonus hp at first level.
Why? Because this helps in not having the group rest after every single encounter.


Zhayne wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:
The GM should roleplay it too. In your example, if a (deleted)

Why wouldn't the Orc gods send an omen? Or evil gods in general? And if the GM has a problem with a PCs behavior, why isn't he talking to the player instead of using lame Deus Ex Machinae?

This is why I don't use extant, meddlesome gods in my games. I've never seen it done and not be totally lame.

I would like to distance myself from that vile example now.


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Rynjin wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:

and here we see the differences in our approaches to gaming.

Dip naked in lava? I do not care what level you are... if you expect your character to survive that "because the numbers say so" move on to the next table cause that aint happening here.
PC are not gods among men just big damn heroes.

Might as well have listed that as your houserule from the start and saved us a back and forth.

It's a houserule. It works for your group, so cool.

But still, the game itself is made with that kind of stuff in mind. It's why there's rule for it to begin with.

Saying "characters above level 6 aren't superhuman because I houserule them not to be" is a bit misleading.

Because it is not a house rule. It is a Play Style. Big difference.

You view the PCs as Gods among men. (nothing wrong with that style)
I view them as just Really Big Heroes. (nothing wrong with this style)
The RAW supports both views equally.


I really don't see how it does. There are some things in teh RAW that quite clearly inform that super-human PCs is the accepted norm.

Yes, it's a difference in playstyle (one I'd enjoy playing on occasion) but to achieve that playstyle you by necessity must houserule some things (like lava, and falling damage to an extent, and maybe HP as a whole).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing but the RAW really only supports super-human PCs after a certain level.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Rynjin wrote:

I really don't see how it does. There are some things in teh RAW that quite clearly inform that super-human PCs is the accepted norm.

Yes, it's a difference in playstyle (one I'd enjoy playing on occasion) but to achieve that playstyle you by necessity must houserule some things (like lava, and falling damage to an extent, and maybe HP as a whole).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing but the RAW really only supports super-human PCs after a certain level.

I'm with Rynjin on this. Playstyles aside, RAW only informs super humanism. There might be disagreements on when the transition from heroic humans to super humans takes place, but it definitely does.

Average damage for complete immersion in lava for one round is only 70 points. Max is only 120. That's definitely within normal survivability for melee classes by level 15, at the absolute latest. You can house rule it so that complete immersion in lava kills you, but then it's no longer RAW.

I agree with Damian on what the heroes should be, which is why I house rule things extensively.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd like to implement Mutants and Masterminds damage system.

Or at least I'd like to implement M&M's minion system (you can always take 10 against minions, including on attacks and saves). In this case, it'd apply to any foe who is CR -3 or lower.


Damian Magecraft wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

For what its worth Damian... the numbers say so because the game is deliberately presenting Lava in a way that PC's can- with enough hit points- survive contact or even immersion in it.

Not that making lava a force of nature which cannot be withstood is necessarily a bad thing. Just not part of the default assumptions.

True enough...

Except part of the default assumptions (of nearly every TRPG) is that players will also apply "common" sense. (That is why Rule Zero exists).

Characters have hit points. Lava deals damage. Therefore common sense dictates that characters with sufficient hit points don't obey real world physics, and that the game devs and their game expect such characters to survive hazards that would instantly kill any real person.

You can house rule all you like, but the last time RAW obeyed real world common sense was 2e D&D. (And then only selectively.)


Damian Magecraft wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

No, you don't sometimes fail at things that are ingrained in you like that.

A master chef is never going to sometimes forget how to make a grilled cheese sandwich.

A master swordsman is never going to cut at something and fail so hard he severs his own leg.

Things like that are things that don't happen in reality, with normal people, so why should it happen in a fantasy game with people who are beyond human?

By 6th level you've surpassed humanity. You should be getting better at things without a 1% chance of going "Whoops, guess all my training is useless".

And NOBODY is going to forget something as simple as 2+4, even for a moment, much less a guy who makes his living on numbers. Come on now. Even when you brain fart, I doubt it's something to do with your livelihood, and as you said...you know the answer, you just can't vocalize it. It's not the same thing.

You might go "Hand me that...thingy over there" when you mean a screwdriver, but you're not suddenly going to be like "And what's this for again?"

Also the way Knowledge checks work mean you CAN never try again but that's a whole 'nother basket of stupid that's not related to your rule at all.

I'm not going to go as far as to say your rule is horrible and you're terrible for using it or whatnot, I've fooled around with fumble rules too, but I don't think it makes sense like you implied it did.

No the master chef is not going to forget how to make a Grilled Cheese; but he might over season, burn, undercook, etc... no matter how good you are... mistakes happen. (just not as often as any system based on the limits of dice is going to limit you to).

Every decent Master will tell you that themselves.
You make a poor assumption on the fumbles.
yes a master swordsman is unlikely to cut his leg off.
But... Pull a groin muscle? Hyper-extend a joint? etc... Self-injury encompasses a large area. The reason I place the effect of rolling Skulls in the hands of the player is they then have a say in how "detrimental"...

Having critical fumbles is fine but only when you have to roll to confirm it and only when the result actually makes sense. Sure a master chef will make mistakes but will never be the same kind of mistake a novice would make.

Also, read "Calibrating your expectations" by the Alexandrian. Level 5 is the height of human capability and such folks only happen along once a generation or so.

The exception is combat mechanics, cause combat is not realistic and can not be made to be realistic without be extraordinarily complicated, not fun, lethal, and not "cinimatic" enough. Real combat is not cinimatic. In real combat, fancy tricks are more likely to get you killed then to hurt your opponent.

But in all other aspects, such as skills and carry capacity, etc are all around level 5 as max for humans. Additionally, this is a high estimate as 3.5 and PF each made alterations which lead to characters being more powerfull then before.


Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

For what its worth Damian... the numbers say so because the game is deliberately presenting Lava in a way that PC's can- with enough hit points- survive contact or even immersion in it.

Not that making lava a force of nature which cannot be withstood is necessarily a bad thing. Just not part of the default assumptions.

True enough...

Except part of the default assumptions (of nearly every TRPG) is that players will also apply "common" sense. (That is why Rule Zero exists).

Characters have hit points. Lava deals damage. Therefore common sense dictates that characters with sufficient hit points don't obey real world physics, and that the game devs and their game expect such characters to survive hazards that would instantly kill any real person.

You can house rule all you like, but the last time RAW obeyed real world common sense was 2e D&D. (And then only selectively.)

3.0 did fairly well making sense as far as skills, environmental effects, carry capacity, and some of the other secondary things. But then again common sense even in the real world will often lead to the wrong answer, hence the distinction between "the Book" (the proverbial book, not a game book) answer and the experienced person's answer.

Sovereign Court

If the game rules dictate that you can actually survive lava (which for some characters, they do ion the RAW), then it's not "common sense" to believe that you can't survive that.

Also, at level 15, it's not impossible that you have fire immunity - you're not common, and common sense doesn't apply to you. Common sense applies to people with commoner levels. (Low-level commoners, to be sure. A 20th level commoner that used the retraining rules to max his HP could survive the lava.)

Silly? Perhaps. But applying real-world common sense to a fantasy world is also a bit silly. You're expecting real-world physics to apply by default while simultaneously declaring that "fire" is a chemical element.

Shadow Lodge

Ascalaphus wrote:
If the game rules dictate that you can actually survive lava (which for some characters, they do ion the RAW), then it's not "common sense" to believe that you can't survive that.

A splash..sure, OK, you're basically a superhero.

Full immersion, or even submersion????

HELL NO. Not unless you're a god or a demigod (and weaker demigods are still kinda iffy).

Lava is NOT boiling Kool-Aid


Kthulhu wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
If the game rules dictate that you can actually survive lava (which for some characters, they do ion the RAW), then it's not "common sense" to believe that you can't survive that.

A splash..sure.

Full immersion, or even submersion????

HELL NO. Not unless you're a god or a demigod (and weaker demigods are still kinda iffy).

Lava is NOT boiling Kool-Aid

And yet the rules would beg to differ. Which is what we're discussing.

"Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round."

20d6 damage/round. Total immersion.

Shadow Lodge

Except those rules are ridiculously nerfing lava. It is not very very hot water.

IT IS MOLTEN ROCK.

If you are "submerged", any bit of you that would actually be submerged has already been burned away to nothingness.

This is an instance where 4E got something right, and PFRPG kept a bad rule that's horribly based in ignorance.


Its not based on ignorance but the fact that both superman and the hulks reaction ti lava might be to go "hey" and that's the kind of people 15th level characters are mathematically based on. It reminds me if watching desolation of smaug vs Thor 2. The hobbit movies are what people think of when they imagine what their game looks like but Thor 2 intro better models mid to high level play. People teleporting in and out rays firing everywhere while minions bring down unstoppable monsters leaving the main villains to the Pc.

Sovereign Court

Eh. I'm not saying the rule is great. Then again, total immersion is about as deadly as twenty average people sticking a short sword in your gut - also not something we really expect people to survive.

If you know from experience that you can survive that, then common sense doesn't apply to you anymore.

PCs leave the land of common sense somewhere between 5th and 10th level. By that time they're turning into animals or even into living fire themselves, teleporting and traveling to other worlds, beating polar bears into submission with their bare hands, riding pteranodons, rising from the dead (possibly into a new race, achieving perpetual young adulthood) or possessing other people.


Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

For what its worth Damian... the numbers say so because the game is deliberately presenting Lava in a way that PC's can- with enough hit points- survive contact or even immersion in it.

Not that making lava a force of nature which cannot be withstood is necessarily a bad thing. Just not part of the default assumptions.

True enough...

Except part of the default assumptions (of nearly every TRPG) is that players will also apply "common" sense. (That is why Rule Zero exists).

Characters have hit points. Lava deals damage. Therefore common sense dictates that characters with sufficient hit points don't obey real world physics, and that the game devs and their game expect such characters to survive hazards that would instantly kill any real person.

You can house rule all you like, but the last time RAW obeyed real world common sense was 2e D&D. (And then only selectively.)

That's if you see hit points as "buffer for physical injuries" as opposed to "plot immunity points", or a mix of the two.


Actually I don't think it matters what kind of points they are, if it was intended that lava should kill instantly when submerged, why not just say that?

Also lava may be hot, but it doesn't matter whether it is rock or water, thhe heat and damage would be the same.

Besides, that damage amount would be instant death for an unprotected normal person even by these rules. These rules are not for just heros, these rules scale from normal to heroic to supernatural to demi-god and frankly it is kinda weird to try calling those demi-god characters as being merely heroic.

Also fun fact, a scientist once stuck his wet hand into 500 degree molten lead without injury.


GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Actually I don't think it matters what kind of points they are, if it was intended that lava should kill instantly when submerged, why not just say that?

Interpreting hp can matter, especially as plot immunity points. Then it would go something like:

If total immersion in lava should kill you, and the character has enough hp not to die, then surely "something" made it possible for the character to survive. The character spends hp not to be immersed into lava in ways that would be lethal, otherwise he/she wouldn't be alive no matter how many hp he/she has etc.

That isn't a play style that satisfies every group, but one that can reconcile hp and common sense.


GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Actually I don't think it matters what kind of points they are, if it was intended that lava should kill instantly when submerged, why not just say that?

Precisely.

If the game devs had intended lava to obey real world sense, or had wanted hp to be 'plot immunity' when it comes to lava, they wouldn't have assigned it a damage value. They would've just said "Some extreme hazards, like lava, don't deal damage or allow saving throws. They just kill characters." Like the 2e devs did.


Tequila Sunrise wrote:
If the game devs had intended lava to obey real world sense, or had wanted hp to be 'plot immunity' when it comes to lava, they wouldn't have assigned it a damage value. They would've just said "Some extreme hazards, like lava, don't deal damage or allow saving throws. They just kill characters." Like the 2e devs did.

I don't think the devs saw hp as plot immunity, but it doesn't make them less compatible with damage values.

Everything should have a damage value as RaW; that's when you know if you have enough hp (plot immunity points) not to die.

Lava deals 20d6 damage. That's RaW. If you still have hp left after; your DM describes how you likely survived. If that killed you, there's no immunity there; you're dead.

Hp as plot immunity points simply changes perspective. Instead of saying "I cut off your head; 35 points of damage", you say "35 points of damage; I cut off your head". Having your head cut off should kill you. Period. It's much easier to adjust whether the head was cut-off or not after damage is dealt and subtracted from hp than to try to figure why you are still alive after having your head cut off.

Same goes with immersion in lava. Survive the 20d6 damage? Then you weren't immerse in lethal ways. Dead after those 20d6 damage; yeah, you probably were immerse in ways that would sensibly kill you. I find this applies well to falling damage as well. Survived the fall; you most likely landed on something that allowed you to get-up fresh, bouncing off Hollywood style. Fall killed you; your legs got crushed into your lungs as you landed on rocks.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

That's 20d6 per round, and lava is much thicker than water, and should reduce the speed if you try to "swim" your way out. If you are in the middle of the lake of lava, that is gonna take more than a single round. And using spells will take a hefty penalty to the concentration check from the damage. I am sure most magic items will melt into uselessness as they typically don't have the HP of that of a character that could survive a 1 round dip into lava.

You may not instantly die the minute you plunge into the lava, but unless you have fire immunity, there's an enormously high chance that you will die no matter how many hit points you have.


Kthulhu wrote:

Except those rules are ridiculously nerfing lava. It is not very very hot water.

IT IS MOLTEN ROCK.

If you are "submerged", any bit of you that would actually be submerged has already been burned away to nothingness.

This is an instance where 4E got something right, and PFRPG kept a bad rule that's horribly based in ignorance.

Rather than ignorance (and believe me, I accuse PF of ignorance on a LOT of things), I'd argue that PF kept this rule out of flavor concerns.

If a Pathfinder character is high enough level to reliably endure a 5,000 foot fall without any injury (broken bones, internal bleeding, etc) whatsoever, no matter how he lands, I'd say he's got to be tough enough to withstand up to 6 seconds submerged in Lava.

Why? Because high level heroes might as well be divinity. Hell, the original term hero had nothing to do with good or bad, it simply meant 'one of divine blood.'


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I have players roll every dice roll, with the exception of rolls the PCs are unaware of, particularly opposed skill checks.

For instance, my PCs take 10 away from their AC, and I add 10 to my attack rolls. Whenever my NPC attacks the PC, the player rolls a d20 and adds it to their new AC. Likewise, I add 10 to NPC saves and the PCs subtract 10 and add d20 to their save DCs.

The pros to this is that the players feel like they're more actively involved in defense. Especially for our defensively focused monk. The other pro is that a player rolling a 1 (the equivalent of the opponent rolling a 20), doesn't feel like they had no choice in this scenario (even though it's the same choice.)

The con is that all the dice are in the open, and also that effects like poison, with effects that last more than a single turn, get sort of confusing.


Kthulhu wrote:

Except those rules are ridiculously nerfing lava. It is not very very hot water.

IT IS MOLTEN ROCK.

If you are "submerged", any bit of you that would actually be submerged has already been burned away to nothingness.

That's as may be, but it's not what we were discussing. We were saying "by the rules, a high level character can survive a dip in lava".

You said "Nope, lava instakills".

Kthulhu wrote:
This is an instance where 4E got something right, and PFRPG kept a bad rule that's horribly based in ignorance.

I doubt it's "a bad rule horribly base din ignorance" and more "A rule based on Rule of Cool".

Protagonists in fantasy do stuff like this all the time.


Rynjin wrote:
Protagonists in fantasy do stuff like this all the time.

Super-hero fantasy, yeah. Literary fantasy, no.

But you're correct. The rules say a lava immersion bath is survivable.


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You guys wanna start another thread about lava already? ~_~


Jaelithe wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Protagonists in fantasy do stuff like this all the time.

Super-hero fantasy, yeah. Literary fantasy, no.

But you're correct. The rules say a lava immersion bath is survivable.

So, you've never read the book where the protagonists are crossing a tiny rock bridge mere feet above a pool of lava?

Or hopping from one floating rock to another, inches from the lava?

Because those are just as impossible.

You've never seen some demi-god/hero swim through lava? There's ones that have KILLED THE FREAKIN' SUN WITH AN ARROW (7 suns, in fact), but swimming in lava is too far-fetched for you?


Laurefindel wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
If the game devs had intended lava to obey real world sense, or had wanted hp to be 'plot immunity' when it comes to lava, they wouldn't have assigned it a damage value. They would've just said "Some extreme hazards, like lava, don't deal damage or allow saving throws. They just kill characters." Like the 2e devs did.

I don't think the devs saw hp as plot immunity, but it doesn't make them less compatible with damage values.

Everything should have a damage value as RaW; that's when you know if you have enough hp (plot immunity points) not to die.

Lava deals 20d6 damage. That's RaW. If you still have hp left after; your DM describes how you likely survived. If that killed you, there's no immunity there; you're dead.

Same goes with immersion in lava. Survive the 20d6 damage? Then you weren't immerse in lethal ways. Dead after those 20d6 damage; yeah, you probably were immerse in ways that would sensibly kill you. I find this applies well to falling damage as well. Survived the fall; you most likely landed on something that allowed you to get-up fresh, bouncing off Hollywood style. Fall killed you; your legs got crushed into your lungs as you landed on rocks.

So your explanation for a character surviving full lava-immersion would be, like what, the sudden Sherlock reveal? "Suspecting that a lava-bath trap would be part of the wicked Count LeDuche's lair defenses, you bought a potion of fire resistance before setting out on this dangerous quest, which you just happened to drink before falling into this particular lava-bath trap! Deficit your current gp total by the potion's cost."?

Or maybe "No, full lava immersion doesn't mean full lava immersion! It means you caught yourself on the conveniently placed floating bits of cooled lava."?


Rynjin wrote:
Jaelithe wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Protagonists in fantasy do stuff like this all the time.

Super-hero fantasy, yeah. Literary fantasy, no.

But you're correct. The rules say a lava immersion bath is survivable.

So, you've never read the book where the protagonists are crossing a tiny rock bridge mere feet above a pool of lava?

Or hopping from one floating rock to another, inches from the lava?

Because those are just as impossible.

You've never seen some demi-god/hero swim through lava? There's ones that have KILLED THE FREAKIN' SUN WITH AN ARROW (7 suns, in fact), but swimming in lava is too far-fetched for you?

OK. Relax. Wasn't really thinking that one through, evidently. (Not thinking too clearly at all over the last few days. Hurt my back in the gym and am living on Aleve. Not fun.)

The Obi Wan vs. Anakin duel always confused me. What were they breathing? I suppose I could buy the Force protecting them telekinetically from the heat, and even cooling the air, but ... filtering out the poisonous gas?

But, yeah. Marvel's Thor ignores lava, hell-fire, and all sorts of hot stuff.

I actually recall characters being pushed up from the center of the Earth whilst riding lava in a shell, or something of that sort. Is that in Verne, perhaps?

I probably just demote something from "literary" to "pulp" when I see something like that, I suppose.

Mythology is a whole different order of discussion. If your characters are mythic heroes, anything's possible. I mean, Kahless threw a piece of his hair into lava, then pulled it out and twisted it into the first bat'leth. Metaphor is literal in gaming.


Tequila Sunrise wrote:

So your explanation for a character surviving full lava-immersion would be, like what, the sudden Sherlock reveal? "Suspecting that a lava-bath trap would be part of the wicked Count LeDuche's lair defenses, you bought a potion of fire resistance before setting out on this dangerous quest, which you just happened to drink before falling into this particular lava-bath trap! Deficit your current gp total by the potion's cost."?

Or maybe "No, full lava immersion doesn't mean full lava immersion! It means you caught yourself on the conveniently placed floating bits of cooled lava."?

I was thinking option 2, but I guess option 1 could work for a very theamtic game.

If "immersion in lava should be fatal" and "character didn't die", then logically there was no immersion. Momentary lava bubble, bit of rock, cooled crust etc. Anything goes. Otherwise it doesn't change anyting by RaW. Character will still have to swim its way through on the following round, taking more damage and most likely succumb.

As a playstyle, it works well in a very cinematographic, somewhat exagerated hollywood movie style, but not all players and/or DMs are willing to roll with it. If the players are unprepared for this style, you quickly get into the "but if I wasn't immersed, why did I take 20d6 points of damage" type of circular logic. Damage goes with the threat, concequence happens after the expentidure of plot immunity points.

In my experience, believability is only stretched that far in very few and distant situations. It's easier to narrate the haywagon below the thrid floor where the PC fell, the in-extremis parry of the orc's falchion, the timely dodge of the giant's thrown rock, the sheild's protection against the flames of the dragon and other common situations.


One of my most cherished D20 products of all time is Fire and Brimstone: A Comprehensive Guide to Lava, Magma, and Superheated Rock, by SammichCon Publishing.

It is a full production, D20system licensed, supplement containing alternate rules for lava.

The core rule is "If you fall into lava, you die. No save."

It has accompanying charts and graphs, as well as detailed examples of play, to support this rule.

Hilarious...and I use it.


To each his own CFtP. If the campaign stayed low level where it didn't matter, I wouldn't mind, but just a heads up some people (myself included) would be prone to walking out on a game where their 15th level character was outright killed by lava: no save, do not roll for damage.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:

Yeah ... I want to play Pathfinder, not The Three Stooges RPG. I don't use the autofail or the autosuccess rules.

I wouldn't say that the Olympic Athletes rolled a 1, because 1s don't autofail on skill checks, by RAW. What they try to do is difficult (high DC), and sometimes they just don't make the check.

Sill checks have never been affected by the Natural 1/20 rules. That said, even Olympic athletes have been known to have complete disasters from time to time. The D20 rules come up rather short if you're looking to expect simulation. I've said it before and I will continue to say it. D20/Pathfinder is a wargame with roleplaying tacked on, not a life simulation system.


Detect Magic wrote:
You guys wanna start another thread about lava already? ~_~

Shadow Lodge

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GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Also lava may be hot, but it doesn't matter whether it is rock or water, thhe heat and damage would be the same.

Not even close. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
When first erupted from a volcanic vent, lava is a liquid at temperatures from 700 to 1,200 °C (1,292 to 2,192 °F). Up to 100,000 times as viscous as water, lava can flow great distances before cooling and solidifying because of its thixotropic and shear thinning properties.

Water would have completely boiled away LONG before reaching even the lower bound of 700° C.


Can'tFindthePath wrote:

One of my most cherished D20 products of all time is Fire and Brimstone: A Comprehensive Guide to Lava, Magma, and Superheated Rock, by SammichCon Publishing.

It is a full production, D20system licensed, supplement containing alternate rules for lava.

The core rule is "If you fall into lava, you die. No save."

It has accompanying charts and graphs, as well as detailed examples of play, to support this rule.

Hilarious...and I use it.

I thought this was a joke.

Shadow Lodge

GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Also fun fact, a scientist once stuck his wet hand into 500 degree molten lead without injury.

I'm gonna need a citation on that one.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
... just a heads up some people (myself included) would be prone to walking out on a game where their 15th level character was outright killed by lava: no save, do not roll for damage.

Do you consider the tactic/expedient of swimming or wading across lava because you know you can handle the damage a valid one for a high-level character?


Jaelithe wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
... just a heads up some people (myself included) would be prone to walking out on a game where their 15th level character was outright killed by lava: no save, do not roll for damage.
Do you consider the tactic/expedient of swimming or wading across lava because you know you can handle the damage a valid one for a high-level character?

Thankfully lava is way too dense for that. You can 'trudge' across it in a similar manner to swampy soil. And yes, I fully support a high level character walking across a lava field if the need arises. (I would actually vastly prefer such to the standard high level solution of 'lets just fly over it.')

Full immersion is usually only going to happen if you fall into it from a height, which is a good thing, because being immersed in it for one minute is going to kill any character who doesn't have a hefty dose of fire resistance.

That being said, I'm actually leaning towards a houserule for lava of my own, where one makes fortitude saving throws against it vs constitution damage. So characters with absurd fort (such as high level martials) can endure it for an extended period of time irrespective of HP, but eventually it's going to kill anybody. Even those who save on a 2 will eventually roll a 1, take con damage, reduce their fort save, and the cycle continues on.


This is the "What are YOUR houserules" thread, not the "Let's discuss lava mechanics" thread; please move the discussion someplace else. I mean, it's really off topic at this point.


That last post was a houserule :P

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:


Full immersion is usually only going to happen if you fall into it from a height, which is a good thing, because being immersed in it for one minute is going to kill any character who doesn't have a hefty dose of fire resistance.

This brings back memories of falling off the chain at Blackrock Mountain.


LazarX wrote:
Zhayne wrote:

Yeah ... I want to play Pathfinder, not The Three Stooges RPG. I don't use the autofail or the autosuccess rules.

I wouldn't say that the Olympic Athletes rolled a 1, because 1s don't autofail on skill checks, by RAW. What they try to do is difficult (high DC), and sometimes they just don't make the check.

Sill checks have never been affected by the Natural 1/20 rules. That said, even Olympic athletes have been known to have complete disasters from time to time.

Which is exactly what I said in the post you quoted. Olympic athletes have wipeouts because what they're trying is high difficulty.

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