Ok so my plan is for a beast bonded witch 1/fighter 7... giving all of my feats and most of my gp to my familiar, using a polymorph any to turn my pseudo dragon into a gold dragon... so my question is what feats would you go with?
First off his stats wont be bad at all
saves also not much worse than a fight of the same lvl and has lots of feats to make up some of it
And it will probably have a gnome on its back for healing purposes... and will also be a stinking dragon and just be effing cool
|
Sorry, I don't think there is a mechanically viable way to do this. There are a couple of serious problems.
1. Your familiar only gets stronger when you take levels of witch (or 4 levels of anything else if you take Boon Companion). Thus, a level 1 witch has a familiar with the same power as a witch 1/fighter 19.
2. Even with a full strength familiar, polymorphing it won't make it combat ready; in Pathfinder, polymorph spells adjust stats, not replace. So you might be able to transform a 5 str familiar into a 9 str dragon, but that won't make it good in combat.
3. Witches don't get have access to Beast Shape, Form of the Dragon, or the polymorph spells apart from Baleful Polymorph. You'd need a wizard or sorcerer to do this.
I think your best bet is to remake this idea using the Summoner class. That class is all about turning your magical companion into a melee monster, and you can simply spend the evolution points to give your eidolon the abilities and appearance of a dragon if that's what you want.
Dont worry about all that stuff... I have all that cleared with the dm... I am just wondering what feats and equipment people might use
|
|
Well, if you say so. Make sure you get the details down now, though. Your DM may not realize quite how many rules he'll be altering.
If you're going to transform your familiar into a mount, you might as well take a lance and the Mounted feats. Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, etc.
Alternately, if you want to get really cheesy, make it an Unarmed Fighter and give your familiar Improved Unarmed Strike, your style of choice (Crane, Snake, and Dragon are very nice), Weapon Focus (claw), and Feral Combat Training. Crane Dragon, hoo-hah!
Yeah... I think you've just entered a homerule territory where we cant help you. What you're doing is so far from the norm of pathfinder rules that we cant really help. There are a couple of feats (improved familiar, evolved familiar) that let you improve familiars, but as said before... you're so far from normal rules I'm not sure how much we can help.
Also: one big weakness of a familiar is that it always has 1/2 of your HP, making them always more fragile than you. If it can get around that, you've either got an ungodly amount of HP, or whe're no longer talking about familiars.
You must be great at a fantasy game with its imagination and all
no, williamoak is right... you're so far outside of the norm that nobody knows where to start because none of the rules/strategies that any of us would use will apply...
you really probably should post this on one of the homebrew forums (there's a whole sub-page for that)
that disclaimer aside... here's a few guesses? you will need to address the familiar's HP, so give it toughness and leave a feat on the main character to also take toughness (and put favored class bonus towards HP), toughness is based on HD and a familiar has as many as its master's total character level, so that will help. you'll also need to leave a feat on the master for improved familiar... you'll need to do some math to figure out the best choice, but creatures smaller than 'small' get extra bonuses to str and stuff when polymorphed (based on some chart that i believe is maybe in the Magic chapter of CRB)- so, something like an imp or a faerie dragon might end up with a decent strength when polymorphed... i have no idea how you plan to put spells on it (since you only have one caster level and don't have most of the spells you'd want on it) but obviously any polymorph would be handy- and note that transformation is not a polymorph effect, so you can stack it with Form of the Dragon or Giant Form or whatever...
so, uhh, good luck?
Ok lets make ir more basic and go with a 7th lvl fighter with a lvl 1 witch ccohortand you dont have to take leadership
|
Ok lets make ir more basic and go with a 7th lvl fighter with a lvl 1 witch ccohortand you dont have to take leadership
And do what with it? Are you asking for a 7th level fighter build now since the witch cohort really can't do more than hit you with a fortune hex and follow you around cackling all day.
Maybe, MAYBE hit you with an enlarge person every once in a while.|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If the witch would be a cohort, is the idea simply that you want to ride around on a dragon? Because if so, you're best off with a summoner. Or taking a dragon as a cohort. I think there's a 3rd party class that focuses around a dragon mount, too.
Also, there's no reason to get snippy - we're trying to help you out. Imagination is obviously a vital part of Pathfinder or any RPG, but the rules are there for a reason. If you're going to just disregard how the rules for familiars and polymorph spells work, how can we advise you with things that rely on those rules? We're trying to help you make a viable character that fits within Pathfinder mechanics - if you want help inventing your own mechanics, then you should be posting in the homebrew forums.
To give an analogy... It's less like you've brought us an idea for a sculpture and asked us for the techniques to carve it, and more like you've brought us an idea for a submarine that can fly and shoot lasers and asked us to make you some blueprints. Doesn't matter how good at engineering we are, we can't make you something that breaks the laws of physics.
Yeah why not just be a dragonrider, where the rules of advancing your "familiar" (not a familiar per se) is already written out?
Whenever the beast-bonded witch is capable of learning a new feat, she may choose to instead have her familiar learn the feat as a bonus feat. The familiar must meet the prerequisites for any feats that it learns this way. If her familiar is lost or dies, the witch can reclaim the feat slots and select new feats for herself, or apply the slots toward her new familiar.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polymorph-any-object
Works just fine with a pseudo dragon
So I am confused as to how I am breaking the rules as long as I hire a wizard to cast it for me so explain that to me
|
|
I apologize, Dax; it seems I was wrong about #1 before. Unlike an Animal Companion, which only gains HD, etc. as you gain levels in the appropriate class, a familiar's HD and BAB scale with your character level. It is only the natural armor bonus, intelligence score, and features like speaking with your familiar and having it deliver touch spells that are based on the familiar-granting class level. So your build just got a whole lot more viable.
You'll still need to address the fact that the familiar will likely have terrible strength. However, familiar's attacks automatically use Dex or Str, whichever is higher, to hit; thus, if you give your familiar an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, it will be able to deal decent damage.
Its HP will still be pretty poor, so use Nate's suggestion there.
There's another problem, though: Beast Shape and Form of the Dragon are self-only spells. That means that you can cast them on yourself or your familiar, but a wizard can't cast it on you. You could find a 13th level wizard to cast Greater Polymorph on you, but that only lasts 1 min/level. However, a Polymorph Any Object spell could transform a lizard or pseudodragon into a proper dragon, depending on the intelligences involved and what your GM considers "related."
Also, to get a Pseudodragon you'd need the Improved Familiar feat, which requires 7 Arcane Spellcaster levels. However, if your GM agrees that a lizard is "in the same class as" and "related to" a dragon, you could have it permanently transformed. Of course, that requires cooperation from a 15th level wizard...
So good luck making friends with an incredibly powerful spellcaster!
Shield companion will help you with its hitpoints, and you can cast it as a first level witch. Spell sponge, evolved familiar and familiar focus are good feats. In fact, I would just recommend reading all of Animal Archive, it has a lot of really good crunch for familiars and ACs.
Pretty sure I dont need to be a 7th lvl spell caster I just need to have the ability to get a new familiar and also be lvl 7... and with gold comes progress haha
Nice sitri those help with hp "problem"
I was also looking at tidepool dragon... with a 11 str it would not be hard to get that up to a respectable lvl... and with feats it could do some fun stuff
Pretty sure I dont need to be a 7th lvl spell caster I just need to have the ability to get a new familiar and also be lvl 7... and with gold comes progress haha
No, while the feat prerequisite just says "sufficient level," the chart clearly titles the level column "spellcaster level." So, yeah, you need to have 7 spellcaster levels.
And just a warning, but giving your familiar the Toughness feat won't help with their hit points, since their own hit points are completely overridden by the rule that gives them half your HP. You taking Toughness will help, but of course only by half as much.
As for what feats will help your familiar--there's not really anything that can help. Power Attack, I suppose, if they'll be a huge dragon. Improved Natural Attack? Familiars are such weak combatants, feats are not going to really help. If you were willing just to let the Psuedodragon be a Psuedodragon, then Ability Focus would be almost required, since their poison is so awesome.
I guess you could be a douche and use those new feats to get your familiar an animal companion. That could be silly. You could both take Leadership. Short of cheaty stuff like that, though, I don't see any benefit to giving your familiar the feats.
A similar (if not quite exactly indentical) option is to be a druid with a saurian companion (T-Rex, Allosaurus, etc.). Druids can be VERY though if built right, have access to high level spells, and can have powerful animal companions (it isnt quite a dragon, but a T-rex is close).
Sorry if I was hard on the idea earlier, it's just that familiars have a well deserved reputation for being frail. So the idea of making it a frontline fighter, combined with polymorph (which is, unfortunately, fairly limited) seemed limited. Unfortunately, while our imagination can give us any concept we want, I can only help if we are using the same rules.
Good luck.
counter-intuitively, improved familiar is based on caster level (it should probably be based on levels in the class granting a familiar, but either way its bad news for you). there is a workaround though- pick a race (or a trait) with a Spell-Like Ability that scales with your character level, that'll satisfy the requirement... it doesn't solve the issue of Share Spell only working on spells you cast... your GM seems very lenient/loose with the rules, ask him if he would extend the ability to spells from scrolls- if he says yes, take the Dangerously Curious trait, max out your UMD, and take skill focus for it (and maybe even magical aptitude), then you should, hopefully, be able to use the scrolls you need.
Ok good I was planning on building a gnome so that is good to here nate, and I only need it cast once and have a buddy that is playing a wizard and will be able to cast polymorph any object for me no problem... it also wont be a front line fighter, I am planning on having it be a very fluff hit and run flyby oh s healer and all around utility ninja
just a warning, but giving your familiar the Toughness feat won't help with their hit points, since their own hit points are completely overridden by the rule that gives them half your HP.
the familiar's base hp are established by the hit points entry of the class feature:
"Hit Points: The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice."it negates the normal hp by HD, but it doesn't negate the feat:
"You gain +3 hit points. For every Hit Die you possess beyond 3, you gain an additional +1 hit point. If you have more than 3 Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit points whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level)."
the feat gives extra hp beyond what you normally have (and based on HD which the familiar ability states are equal to the master's)... i can't see any reason to think they wouldn't interact that way?
Nate... I like you haha
Wow you can type but you cant read that is impressive... go ahead morph tell me what rules am I breaking bc I am pretty sure that the only technicality I am using is being a gnome so I can take improved familiar
People, please get up to speed before you critize the OP's rulecrafting. I've seen a lot of flat-out-wrong statements already.
Now, my suggestion is to look at the Valet familiar archetype from Animal Archive; I don't remember the cost, but it automatically has all the teamwork feats the master has.
It is all for flavor... I am going to rp it as a gnome that wants to pimp his "ride"... I am already planning on boosting saves with feats and items... his ac will be fine I dont think I am going to be in combat with him all that much unless it is in mass combat with lots of low lvl baddies
dax-
i've pretty well exhausted all my ideas on how to make this specific idea work... i know you've gotten frustrated with people ignoring your request and just suggesting other things, but i'm hoping that after me giving some specific advice about your idea already you'll tolerate one more 'why not do it this way' kind of posts?
have you read the summoner class? i know it gets a bad rap sometimes- during the open playtest before APG was released, I was one of the vocal people on this site bashing them for being too easy to abuse (which i still think they are), but they're pretty much custom built for "a gnome that wants to pimp his 'ride'"... the eidolon is very customizable, and doesn't need to be in combat a lot, but you won't end up investing so many resources into it that you have trouble contributing without it (which i fear might be an issue if you effectively reduce your self to the warrior NPC class with a cool mount that doesn't fight).
you have to pick its base form at 1st level (and i think it has to be serpentine or quadruped to be a mount), but everything else you get to change every time you level (and there are spells and archetype abilities that give you even more flexibility)- you could start with something like a wolf or large goat and when you have enough evolution points permanently turn it into a dragon (or whatever other creature seems cool). and, they get their own feats, skills, etc (so you're not sacrificing yours for them).
this would leave your actual character with about the same number of feats as your fighter would have... at 8th you'd have -1 BAB vs a fighter 7/witch 1, so your unbuffed melee would be slightly behind the other idea, but you'd also have 1st-3rd level spells with which to buff yourself and other party members. on top of all that, if you really want to have some of those transmutations that summoners don't normally get, you could make a Samsaran with the mystic past life ability to add them to your spell list.
well, like i said, i know this isn't what you asked for but i thought this might be worth reading- good luck figuring out exactly what you'll do!
Like I said nate I like you... I have built a great summoner in the past kinda the reason my dm wont let anyone play one now :(
I second nate's suggestion. I've seen it done before, and the players had a lot of fun. You really can pimp an eidolon; this one players added new and ridiculous elements to the eidolon each time it gained evolution points. If made right, it can also be a decent fighter, comparable to a magus or bard or rogue, with cooler spells to boot.
Edit: Noticed the summoner is banned. Unfortunate, but it's got to be lived with.
Otherwise, dont forget the "evolved familiar" feat that allows you to add to your familiar similar elements as those the eidolon gets; you could give your familiar "reach" (keeping it from being hurt too much), better attacks, better natural armor, bacically any 1-point evolution. If your GM allows you to stack them (IE, 2x "evolved familiar"=2 evolution points), you could give it better flight, teach it to use weapons, etc. With enough you could eventually make your familiar "large" to ride it (though this isnt strick raw, since normally "evolved familiar" doesnt stack).
okay- i don't want to push my luck (and this really might be too far away from your idea) but, given that new information, here's one more 'alternate idea'...
a wildblooded sorcerer with the Sylvan bloodline (the alternate for fey) gets an animal companion equal to a ranger (druid -3 levels)... the Boon Companion feat will bring that right up to full power and then you can pick whatever animal seems like it would make for a cool mount. focus your spells known mostly on buffs and transmutations- you can use them to make yourself decent in combat (since that seems like part of the concept), but then you'll also have them to cast on your animal companion (they get Share Spells too, normally limited to druid spells, but for you- anything on the wiz/sorc list), then you'll be able to just cast your form of the dragon spells on your mount yourself :)
either way, good luck!