YogoZuno Venture-Agent, Australia—QLD—Brisbane |
Baronjett |
This is an interesting question. The GM's character did go on the adventure, otherwise he wouldn't get the Scenario sheet. It would set in strange dynamic at the table though.
Would this lead to GMs "playing nice" so they don't have to be asked to donate gold to a fallen hero?
My feeling is that there should be an invisible wall between the GM character and the player characters.
I would be interested in getting Mike or John's thoughts though....
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
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I should say no.
An important principle of the GM Chronicle is that there's never any impact between the game session and the GM credit. The GM doesn't benefit from the party's success, nor from the party's failure.
This would allow such an impact. "If the ninja and ranger die, then I'll be expected to help spring for their raise deads. So, of course, I'll make sure they don't die."
pauljathome |
Unfortunately no. As stated, it could skew GM decisions.
Also, don't forget that a lot of time the GM isn't actually getting money (the more one GMs the less one worries about the chronicle sheets. I often rerun scenarios). So you'd get the weird situation of wanting your GM to be GMing it for the first time :-)
On a related note, a player who isn't playing for credit can't contribute either. That actually came up at a table I was playing at a few months ago.
Sniggevert |
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On a related note, a player who isn't playing for credit can't contribute either. That actually came up at a table I was playing at a few months ago.
Why not? The player who's not playing for credit can die, and will expend resources while playing, why couldn't they chip in for the group? That is a player playing one of their own characters rather than a pre-gen.
Brian Lefebvre |
Mahtobedis wrote:A pregen character is not able to contribute to a raise dead that is not for themselves. A GM's character who is not even there also should not be able to contribute.Can you cite that rule, please?
The Getting Started section of chapter 1 of the Guide, and the Legal Pathfinder Society Character of chapter 6 both mention this restriction.
When both sections mention how to use a pregen, they both mention the pregen can only sell gear to clear their own conditions, and not anyone else.
Sitri |
This is an interesting question. The GM's character did go on the adventure, otherwise he wouldn't get the Scenario sheet. It would set in strange dynamic at the table though.
Would this lead to GMs "playing nice" so they don't have to be asked to donate gold to a fallen hero?
My feeling is that there should be an invisible wall between the GM character and the player characters.
I would be interested in getting Mike or John's thoughts though....
+1
Coraith Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman |
Sitri |
While I think it best the GM not have the option to help raise players for the reasons mentioned, it does raise an interesting point on how much he counts as a player in the scenario. For example, on some of the scenarios where you are supposed to track which people you gain influence with, is he considered a player like everyone else and only marks the people influenced on the chronicle that the players did, or does he automatically get endorsements with all of them. I don't remember seeing this brought up anywhere.
kinevon |
In all honesty, especially since the GM character getting credit for this scenario, if any, may not even be getting credit for the same sub-tier as was being played, there is no way to justify, in an in-game way, that George Henry, who was not along for the ride, would even know that Kevin McMurtry died while exploring site X.
JohnF Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West |
Nothing that happens in the play of the scenario affects what is on the GM chronicle; the GM gets influence with every listed NPC, just as he gets access to every item (and, now, boon) shown on the chronicle, and full GP, XP and PP, no matter what the players receive.
The only restriction on GM rewards is that the GM receives only those appropriate to the level of the character to whom the chronicle is assigned (with, presumably, out-of-subtier characters receiving out-of-subtier gold, but access to the low subtier items).
If nothing in the play of the scenario affects the GM character, it's hard to see how the GM character can be considered to be a participant.
Belryan |
I asked because I was running a rather difficult scenario tonight at 3-4, which is often on the fringe of people being able to raise themselves with prestige, and knew there was definitely a chance of someone dying. It wasn't going to prevent me from playing the tactics as written, but I just figured I could help out from my character's chronicle is someone died.
As it turns out, because I told everyone at the beginning that it was going to potentially be difficult and to come prepared, I had three of the five players play Level 5 characters (thus between 3-4 and 6-7) and of course nobody even dropped unconscious and they murdered everything.
I can see your arguments though.
Matt Thomason |
Logistics of whether the GM character is deemed to be present or not aside, from what I understand the process is this:
- Characters need to be raised (or whatever) before the end of the adventure.
- Adventure ends. Anyone not raised is gone gone gone.
- The GM's chronicle sheet is then applied to one of the GM's characters, after the adventure.
Which means the GM's character's gold doesn't technically exist until after it would be wanted anyway, making it impossible to use.
I have zero experience with this, so I apologize if I've got that process wrong, and feel free to correct me (please do, so I can get it right when it matters! :) )
(What am I saying? This is an internet forum, of course people will correct me! ;) )
BringerofSouls |
Logistics of whether the GM character is deemed to be present or not aside, from what I understand the process is this:
- Characters need to be raised (or whatever) before the end of the adventure.
- Adventure ends. Anyone not raised is gone gone gone.
- The GM's chronicle sheet is then applied to one of the GM's characters, after the adventure.Which means the GM's character's gold doesn't technically exist until after it would be wanted anyway, making it impossible to use.
I have zero experience with this, so I apologize if I've got that process wrong, and feel free to correct me (please do, so I can get it right when it matters! :) )
(What am I saying? This is an internet forum, of course people will correct me! ;) )
As a note, Death is "basicly" a condition gained on the chronicle sheet of the player, a condition that needs to be cleared/resolved.
"PCs may use the rewards from the Chronicle sheet they earned in order to resolve any conditions, such as death."however, if you are unable to do this
"PCs who ultimately do not return to the realm of the living receive no XP, 0 Prestige Points, 0 gp, and no boons for the scenario in which they died." -their character is also no longer playable.
It should be noted that
"PCs can also sell off gear, including the dead character’s gear, at 50% of its listed value to raise money to purchase a spell that will return their slain ally from the dead, though they can only do so in a settlement and they cannot sell off any items found during the current scenario that they haven’t purchased."
((quotes are from page 22 of the guide to pathfinder society organized play season 5))
Final note, pooling resources is encouraged but in no way forced.
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In regards to the actual topic, I would have to agree with many others that it poses a problem in regards to GM neutrality in the game.
Further he receives a GM chronicle sheet rather than a PC chronicle sheet ^^
And as pointed out many GM, actually GM the scenarios multiple times (especially scenarios they like), and thus do not actually gain any chronicle sheet.
pauljathome |
pauljathome wrote:Why not? The player who's not playing for credit can die, and will expend resources while playing, why couldn't they chip in for the group? That is a player playing one of their own characters rather than a pre-gen.
On a related note, a player who isn't playing for credit can't contribute either. That actually came up at a table I was playing at a few months ago.
I slightly misspoke. I wasn't allowed to use the money was on the chronicle sheet for that session.
The character that was playing had essentially no wealth at the time. Which is just as well, actually. Losing significant amounts of wealth on a mission that you couldn't gain from would be unpleasant. As would feeling like a jerk for not contributing to the raise dead.
Sniggevert |
Sniggevert wrote:pauljathome wrote:Why not? The player who's not playing for credit can die, and will expend resources while playing, why couldn't they chip in for the group? That is a player playing one of their own characters rather than a pre-gen.
On a related note, a player who isn't playing for credit can't contribute either. That actually came up at a table I was playing at a few months ago.I slightly misspoke. I wasn't allowed to use the money was on the chronicle sheet for that session.
The character that was playing had essentially no wealth at the time. Which is just as well, actually. Losing significant amounts of wealth on a mission that you couldn't gain from would be unpleasant. As would feeling like a jerk for not contributing to the raise dead.
OK, that makes sense. Yeah, if you're not getting anything from the chronicle, you couldn't use money from it to contribute.
I personally try and play a pregen when I make a table and replay for pretty much your latter sentiments there. I will try my best to help the table make and then succeed, but if something goes bad for whatever reason, then I'm not losing my character or resources in a no win situation.
Avatar-1 |
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That's absurd.
It's like asking the GM if they're willing (or the GM offering) to pay for some equipment at the beginning of the scenario with their character.
The GM's character doesn't go with you, the GM adjudicates the scenario and gets a chronicle as a reward for doing so so that their character can keep up with the party's level and still play with them.
pauljathome |
I personally try and play a pregen when I make a table and replay for pretty much your latter sentiments there. I will try my best to help the table make and then succeed, but if something goes bad for whatever reason, then I'm not losing my character or resources in a no win situation.
I most certainly see your point of view and am always tempted to play a pregen for precisely those reasons but the fact is that I strongly prefer to play my own character. Losing a few consumables is no big deal. Even dying is no huge deal since I basically have too many characters anyway :-)