Familiars after the Spellcaster Dies


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Here's a Thought... What happens to a Familiar if the one they are bound to dies?

From what I can tell, a certain FAQ only covers what happens if a Wizard dismisses their familiar. And from what I can tell, since a Wizard dying doesn't dismiss their familiar, nor kills said familiar... It leaves a number of... Questions. Some are head scratchers, others are just musings.

For starters... Does the Familiar essentially get free roam while their master is gone?

If the Wizard is gone for good for some reason, do they get to go out and become Wizards themselves? Such as might be the case if they want to continue the Wizard's work.

What are the effects on a Familiar that remains infused with the soul of a being that has passed on since? E.G. Does a Familiar who sticks around long enough after their master's death to witness the day their master becomes an Angel feel the effects of this?

Do certain Familiars such as Cats have to learn to speak a language on their own to get by?

And here's the best part...

...What is life like for an "Orphaned" Familiar?

I look forward to hearing your takes on life for an Orphaned Cat Familiar. I'm sure it might make good campaign material.


Its the GM's call. Whatever best serves plot. But since you've asked, here are possibilities I can think of.

1) The connection is lost, and the animal gradually reverts to it's natural state, possibly retaining everything but it's augmented intelligence.

2) The animal gains free will and roams the earth, which could go any direction. As a free agent it can serve it's own agenda or the former master's and it is more durable than other animals of its kind, but has no real special powers of its own. It could also act as an NPC, sharing what it knows when it chooses, perhaps helping a group of PCs avenge it's master.

3) It becomes a familiar to another spell caster. The only real benefit this serves is further a plot element, which is a great benefit.

Silver Crusade

One tiny factoid is that a witches familiar can teach spells to another witches familar for 24 hours after its master is slain. If the familiar is willing.

So they pretty much have to remain sorta mostly magical for 24 hours and lose at least some abilities after 24 hours

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BlueStorm wrote:

Here's a Thought... What happens to a Familiar if the one they are bound to dies?

From what I can tell, a certain FAQ only covers what happens if a Wizard dismisses their familiar. And from what I can tell, since a Wizard dying doesn't dismiss their familiar, nor kills said familiar... It leaves a number of... Questions. Some are head scratchers, others are just musings.

For starters... Does the Familiar essentially get free roam while their master is gone?

It's not covered because in most campaigns, it's the wizard that's the player character, not his minion. So that's a question that's up to your local DM.

My answer is... whatever works best for the story, and I see no reason that the answer needs to be consistent.


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I am now planning to write the Familiar Haven. An arcane organisation for ex-familiars. It provides its members with the necessary magics to take humanoid shape or gain telekinesis so they can actually use objects. They even start taking class levels. And get familiars of their own.

All familiars of familiars are given membership as well.


Actually, the Reign of Winter Adventure Path has you (kinda) encounter the familiar of a dead witch. Apparently, it keeps all the stuff is got from it's former master. I would explain more, but it's a bit of a spoiler.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:


1) The connection is lost, and the animal gradually reverts to it's natural state, possibly retaining everything but it's augmented intelligence.

2) The animal gains free will and roams the earth, which could go any direction. As a free agent it can serve it's own agenda or the former master's and it is more durable than other animals of its kind, but has no real special powers of its own. It could also act as an NPC, sharing what it knows when it chooses, perhaps helping a group of PCs avenge it's master.

As a general rule I would go with one of these two, with a bias towards (2).

However, as CB and others have said, the best answer is probably "Whatever best serves the plotline the GM is creating".


I think a more interesting question is, "What happens to improved familiars like imps and lantern archons?" ;)


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I think a more interesting question is, "What happens to improved familiars like imps and lantern archons?" ;)

Not really, Imps and Lantern Archons are already kind of Intelligent. Or at least above 3 points of intelligence last I remember. So any interesting fact of being an uplifted intelligence would be missing.

Also... The behaviors of creatures like Imps and Lantern Archons after death is far too predictable. The Imp goes off and causes trouble and the Lantern Archon goes to be helpful.... Or they go home... Either way.

It's the regular house cat's actions after being uplifted to intelligence from their time as a familiar would be more complicated, not being motivated strictly by moral imperatives for one, and more to the point still grappling with their own existence outside their master's will.

So yeah, not getting why the outsiders would be more interesting here.

... And No, your Wink-ing emote does not clear things up.


What if it is a tattooed sorcerer and the familiar was in tattoo form when the sorcerer died?


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Nawtyit wrote:
What if it is a tattooed sorcerer and the familiar was in tattoo form when the sorcerer died?

Well since it says the familiar can transform itself then it stands to reason it can decide NOT to be a tattoo upon the master's death. However unless someone else binds it, any time it wants to transform again it goes right back to the corpse.

That'd be kind of thematic right? Just this black cat materializing on the old witch's grave from time to time (as it reverts to tattoo form, then reverts again)?


I've actually had a couple adventures around this trope. An ooze mephit familiar that belonged to a particularly odious wizard on his way to becoming a mystic theurge and self-styled demigod, his familiar then went on to form a cult of beggars and tried to destroy the city with slime.

Another adventure involved a thieving sorcerer who had a white cat as a familiar. Prior to his death the cat had gotten the power of speech from a spell and permanency effect. Now this talking cat used it's former master's wealth, contacts and magic items to assemble a guild of rogues to rob the countryside blind.

Still another adventure involved heading to an old wizard's tower for information. The wizard was long dead but for some reason his powers were still being maintained so the tower was defended. A few rooms in a wisened old feline humanoid shut down the clay golem and began apologizing profusely. Turns out the wizard had transformed his cat into a humanoid (back in 2e) but later died, so the cat just used the powers it had already learned to maintain the place and had been here ever since. Turned into a major NPC for the party.


Mark Hoover wrote:
Nawtyit wrote:
What if it is a tattooed sorcerer and the familiar was in tattoo form when the sorcerer died?
Well since it says the familiar can transform itself then it stands to reason it can decide NOT to be a tattoo upon the master's death. However unless someone else binds it, any time it wants to transform again it goes right back to the corpse.

The thought is that the familiar tattoo ability is SU, so doesn't it end when then sorcerer dies? So wouldn't the familiar pop out of the dead body?


I think that the familiar retains everything after the wizard dies. My supporting text is somewhat spoilerific for an AP.

Spoilers!:
In a Know Direction/3.5 Sanctuary podcast, I remember one of the Paizo staff commenting about one of the AP's (Wrath of the Rightous, I think). In their comment they mentioned that the party will/may meet the familiar of a dead wizard. The familiar might help them, it might hinder them, and it might even seek to kill the party wizard's familiar so that it can replace the party wizard's familiar (if their alignments are compatible).

That said, I'm going off memory, and I listened to a TON of KD/3.5S podcasts this fall, so I could be mistaken. That could have come from a Fire Mountain Games interview. But I don't think so.


Silly BlueStorm, don't you know that emoticons make everything clear? :O

In seriousness, the interesting aspect of demons and archons is that unlike normal familiars, they had lives and sentience prior. So do they go back to their homeplane, keeping/losing what they gained as familiars?


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Silly BlueStorm, don't you know that emoticons make everything clear? :O

In seriousness, the interesting aspect of demons and archons is that unlike normal familiars, they had lives and sentience prior. So do they go back to their homeplane, keeping/losing what they gained as familiars?

Well... In terms of Intelligence, they don't get too much, basically five points on average... They get a natural armor adjustment... And... About one or two abilities that are not that impressive for an outsider anyways.

(Unless I'm missing something about Improved Familiars here.)

In terms of whether they can go home though? Well... Looks like they have to find their own way back. None of the Improved Familiars I just looked up mention Reality hopping. And some texts say Imps being stuck in the material plane after their master has died is a real problem.

...But hey, considering from what I understand, the Improved Familiar practically signed up for the job, essentially having to be willing to be a Familiar... I don't think they'd be any more perturbed by that development that anyone else in that situation.

A Cat though? If their master dies, you have to realize that they just lost what's basically a father/mother, a brother/sister, a teacher, a companion, a source of food, the one that changed how they saw the world for the better, inspired them, gave them understanding, gave their life meaning, gave them a meaning for everything else as well, and practically defined them. They also gave them everything they might ever need to find their way and place in the world, and everything they need to master the world like few others of their kind can, especially since they have a high level of familiarity (Pun) with how magic works from their time with the Spellcaster.

A regular animal, recruited as a Familiar... Once they lose their master, they loose the one that gave them everything they have and have ever had... Literally, save for their own body.

...The fact they may get to keep it indefinitely after their death... That is the kind of infinite gratitude that will stay with them forever. Almost as if they own them their life.

But an outsider?

Its basically just what its like after your internship is over and you have to find a way to pay for a train ticket back to your home country. You've learned and gained plenty, and its a little sad but its not that bad, considering your friend and boss is probably going to be there when you get home anyways. And when you get back, you have a chance at a promotion to a new job... And that's about it. Unless of course you decide not to go home, in which case you also happen to have been given a free plane ticket to this place and get to stay.

Perspective.


I wasn't trying to start a big argument. Just figured since the discussion over cats was settled we could talk about something else. ;D

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I think a more interesting question is, "What happens to improved familiars like imps and lantern archons?" ;)

Traditionally with Imps and Quasits (at least in 1E), they snatched up their masters' souls and headed back to the Abyss or the Hells with their new prize. (and possible promotion) Celestial famillairs may very well guide thier former masters to their reward... if they merited it.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I wasn't trying to start a big argument. Just figured since the discussion over cats was settled we could talk about something else. ;D

Oh I don't mind, I get the feeling I take to arguing some things the same way the ancient Greeks/Romans did. Which is to say revel in and enjoyed it.

...Most of the Time. :3


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So a bit of fiction then?

Re: Archons:

"It's TIME mistress"

Revelda stood, dumbfounded. All around her was a shadowy chaos; some distant sounds of battle in a mist that obscured all around her save her own corpse.

That can't be right?

Revelda Hartsmore was just standing, not a moment ago, preparing to unleash a torrent of scorching fire on the savage goblins that had ambushed her friends. Javek and Cloudsmire, they were readying their usual flurry of greatsword attacks up the middle followed by the halfling's snicker-snack of his hidden knives.

"I need to HELP them!" Revelda started. That's when Gloam, her trusted ally came into her vision. "No, mistress; there is no more aid you can render here. Your path has finally intersected with the Great Wheel. You must move on.

Fear. A terror the young devout had never known. Revelda could no longer feel but she knew she was shaking.

"What? Wait I... I can't..." Her umbral eyes filled with welling tears. "Gloam, please, I can't be done. I have so much left to accomplish! Please, you have to bring me back; I'll do anything!" Revelda's childish looks and truthful soul had melted the hearts of hardened criminals and even a monstrous tyrant, yet the ebbing star of the Lantern Archon before her remained unmoved.

"Good mistress; bargaining. You are grieving. You must move to accept this before the Crossing. It is your only hope of passing the Veil and surviving the Maelstrom to arrive at the Mother's Wheel."

Revelda gritted her teeth. This impudent little gnat! He was HER minion, not the other way around! "I ORDER you to return me at once!" Madame Hartsmore's button nose wrinkled atop her pouting lips; had her comrades been able to see her Cloudsmire would certainly have belted out a laugh.

For his part Gloam remained unmoved.

The mist was suddenly quiet. A muted howl cut the fog and Revelda Hartsmore saw her gruff companion Javek's form kneeling over her corpse ("I'm just a body, growing ever colder") and it suddenly came clear. Their meeting in battle in the market square months ago when the rats got loose; their chats over drinks at the Dusty Mug in the Firmfoot District; the stolen kiss at the Brewfall Festival.

"I love him Gloam..." She'd never said it out loud. She'd felt it a million times and she was SURE Javek shared the feeling. But there was never time. There were the missions and distractions and training and all the trappings and preparations a young wizardess needs done for her chosen profession.

A sudden hope glimmered. The MESSAGE spell. She'd had it going the whole time they'd been scouting through the highlands so they could communicate quietly in the windswept wilds. Perhaps...

"Mistress, please" the soft glow was at once tender and insistent. "Gloam wait. I beg of you. Let me say it. Let me say goodbye."

There was a brief silence. Then the beautiful brilliance seemed to warm visibly. "Of course Mistress. Speak and I would be honored to be your lips" and with that the radiance filled her face as she knelt beside her love, the human fighter known simply as Javek.

And now it was here and the words still wouldn't come. All the things she wanted to say; all the everything welled up in Revelda at once. Her spectral hand quivered. But she could FEEL once more; her face at least felt warm and alive. She could lean in close and see through the fog. The smell of the battle was on him, but Javek still had the appearance to her of a stubborn yet noble man. He was honest and that was a quality so rare as to be treasured more than all the coin and spellbooks in Karnoss.

"Thank you," Revelda managed at last. "Thank you, Javek, for what you gave me, what you are, and all that you will yet become. I love you, faults and all. Let nothing and no one EVER belittle the good your heart holds, for I have seen it and I was blessed to do so. Goodbye my dearest friend." and with that Revelda Hartsmore extended her ephemeral lips to the rough stubble of Javek's tear-soaked cheek.

The man who'd hewn muscle from bone mere moments before closed his eyes and wept, cradling his beloved in his arms.

"It is TIME mistress" The Archon repeated, disentangling from her visage. "I'm ready Gloam." The mist behind the divine spark began to slowly part. "Very good, mistress. Just follow me then; follow the light and accept the Crossing. I will guide you true - that I swear." The lady's face brightened, "Onward by lantern light then, like always. Lead on my sweet companion..."

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nicely done.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I wasn't trying to start a big argument. Just figured since the discussion over cats was settled we could talk about something else. ;D

What discussion about cats?

On topic kingmaker has a couple of ex druid animal companions as well. There's quite a few others in various fiction as well so I'd say what they have when the wizard dies they keep.

Kind of sad to think about them losing their father/mother companion too especially since I prefer the 3.x grimalkin as a familiar and their described as having the personality of a curious child.

I still want to find a gm who'll let me take leadership and make my familar my cohort imagine a cat sorceress or bard singing on your shoulder. If your playing with mythic rules take the evangelist cleric archetype and have them running around trying to convert people into worshiping their creator. Hmmm could be an interesting character concept to try playing as a former familiar trying to raise the money by adventuring to pay a cleric to raise your master/creator.


I still think an ex-familiar would be an awesome NPC. The wizard has an owl named Peninghet who is there when his master dies at the hands of an evil warlord on a lonely hilltop. The rest of the party chases after the BBEG as he flees leaving their fallen friend for a few minutes. Peninghet however leans helplessly over the wizard's pale face. "Vater?"

When the party returns curiously they find the wizard's spellbook and the owl gone.

Cut to years later. Disciples of the warlord are covertly gathering power for another bid at dominance. The game's been re-started and the new PCs are 1st level planning their first adventure in a bar when they're approached by a shady character who is trying to get them to join some clandestine rebellion.

Suddenly the door bursts open revealing a tengu in dark robes silhouetted on the threshold. "The warlord will not rise again. So swears... The Owl!" and with that his feathered hand flicks and several magic missiles smash into the agent speaking with the party.

Three more of the nefarious rebels rise around the room drawing weapons. One is near the party and they're free to deal with that one. The Owl ducks behind a post as crossbow bolts embed themselves in the door, then he rolls out from cover chanting and gesturing. From his hand leaps four coruscating beams of pure cold (an admixture trick the old campaign wizard used all the time); two of the rays hit one agent, two hit another.

As the fight comes to an end, The Owl peers at the young PCs from the recesses of his hood. "Five years ago these savages threatened our kingdom under the banner of an evil warlord. They killed my vater before my very eyes. Their master may be dead but their treachery lives on. I've sworn a blood oath against them and I shall see their vile insurgance perish from this world!" and with that the tengu leaps off the stoop of the inn to fly away, into the night air as silently as he came.

I know: good fiction but a DMPC shouldn't show up the PCs. Still, picturing and owl-shaped tengu in the Assassin's Creed get up and having him take out a bunch of dudes with magic? That's pretty dope.

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