Eric Saxon |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
BAB +1 TWF - Scimitar & Light Shield -2 PENALTY to hit for both.
BAB +6 Improved TWF - You get a second attack with your off-hand, albeit at a -5 PENALTY
BAB +11 Greater TWF - You get a third attack with your off-hand, albeit at a -10 PENALTY
Now your to hit should look like this for all 3 attacks +9/+4/-1. Sound about right?
Enter Shield MASTER (And MASTER it truly is, if played as written.)
You do not suffer any PENALTIES on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.
Now the off hand shield attacks look like this +11/+11/+11? And if you take a second light shield as your main weapon they become +11/+6/+1? And this is before we add the +5 bonuses which make it two +5 weapons at the cost of a single +5 weapon?
Corodix |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
It does say that you don't suffer any penalties on attack rolls with the shield, there's nothing in the text of the feat that limits it to just the standard two-weapon fighting penalties, is there?
The improved and greater two weapon fighting feats specifically state that you get a penalty to the attack. So if the shield is in the off hand then that indeed looks like three attacks at +11 with the off-hand shield, unless I'm missing something.
What about power attack and combat expertise? Those both give penalties to the attack roll. And what about fighting defensively? That gives a penalty to your attacks in return for extra AC. Does that mean you could use those two feats and fight defensively, without getting any penalties to the shield attacks?
Eric Saxon |
That's the way I'm reading it Corodix. Like I said, Shield Master, truly looks like a MASTER feat to me. Now what was intended is probably what Durngrun said but intent and letter of the feat description are two different things.
Now going with this.
A Twin Tower Spiked Shields fighter at lvl. 11 looks like a beast.
Aelryinth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |
StreamOfTheSky |
I'm sure the clause about not taking penalties was supposed to be TWF penalties only, and they just weren't specific enough. I wouldn't try to make a Shield Master build w/ power attack, expertise, etc... and try to pass it off as taking no penalties, doubt your DM would approve.
Also, unless there is some ability I'm unaware of (and I'm sure there are), you cannot bash with a tower shield.
IIRC, the tower shield fighter archetype lets you, and that's why he mentioned Fighter.
Otherwise, Ranger is a much better class for shield fighting, due to early entry on both of the key feats.
StreamOfTheSky |
That is a TWF penalty, why wouldn't it be reasonable?
If I made a shield master build, it'd be dual heavy shields at no penalty. Though I suppose once you get Bashing Finish, a heavy in the main hand and an 18-20 crit weapon that's been made keen is more effective. The crits triggering main hand shield bashes.
Eric Saxon |
Calling them iteratives at a PFS table is fine and dandy but doesn't change the name in the books. Its called a penalty in a book. Incorrectly, I realize that but still is written.
This should probably be errataed so that there is no argument a player can make. Currently, if someone showed up at my table with his Shield Master, I'd be forced to allow it, since PFS doesn't have a 'at GM's discretion' rule.
Durngrun Stonebreaker |
Calling them iteratives at a PFS table is fine and dandy but doesn't change the name in the books. Its called a penalty in a book. Incorrectly, I realize that but still is written.
This should probably be errataed so that there is no argument a player can make. Currently, if someone showed up at my table with his Shield Master, I'd be forced to allow it, since PFS doesn't have a 'at GM's discretion' rule.
I don't play PFS but I've seen plenty of people post the "common sense" rule for GMs.
Eric Saxon |
Iterative attacks are not a penalty as they are set in the class level chart. Just because the attack is 5 less does make it a penalty. The second attack is just 5 BAB less, 3rd is 10 less and so on. So shield master does not raise your base attack.
And the chart holds for the main hand. Its the TWF, ITWF and GTWF feats that call it 'a penalty.' So the main hand I can just say its not a penalty, its the off-hand that the legal squabble could arise.