| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Part of the issues perhaps is that your analogy is flawed there KSF, how is a gender chance on the same level as a fixing or replacing the heart or regrowing a limb that was damaged to someone?
Anevia could have lived the rest of her life the without dieing from being a man.
The concept of 'check your privilege' is sometimes overused these days, but seriously, this is precisely the situation where it is called for.
Check your privilege.
Given the percentages, and the statements you're making, I'm going to feel safe in assuming that you're not transgender, and you've never been in a relationship or very close to someone who is transgender.
You do not have the experience to be able to assert with any degree of justification the statement you are making above.
Gender dysphoria can cause depression, which can lead to suicide. It is, in fact, possible to die as a result (admittedly indirect) of feeling you're in the wrong body.
As for the creation issue, Golarion gods don't do omnipotence. (Whether an omnipotent god would be justified in saying, "I made you a man and I know better than you do what gender you're supposed to be" is a completely different argument.)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Part of the issues perhaps is that your analogy is flawed there KSF, how is a gender chance on the same level as a fixing or replacing the heart or regrowing a limb that was damaged to someone?
Anevia could have lived the rest of her life the without dieing from being a man.
The person that needed the new heart would have died.
The point I was trying to make is that it's in the same category as heart surgery or a prosthetic limb - it's alleviating a medical condition that causes suffering, rather than an "Oh, that's nice" gift of the sort that Thorri Grimbeard was setting it up as.
I agree that a heart condition is more immediately threatening, but that doesn't mean there isn't a negative health impact from being transgender and not being able to transition.
Here's what a real world health authority, the American Medical Association (AMA) has to say about the importance of treatment for transgender people:
“An established body of medical research demonstrates the effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with GID … Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder.”
You can find that, and similar statements by other health organizations at this link. It's a legitimate medical issue, just as a heart condition, or a lost or damaged limb is a medical condition.
That's the point I was trying to make. What Irabeth did was help alleviate her wife's suffering due to a medical condition. That seems to me a very paladin sort of thing to do. A very good thing to do. Anevia being her wife doesn't negate the significance of what Irabeth did.
I can kinda see a similarity with the person needing a new limb, but thats just restoring their quality of life to the same it was before.
Right, Irabeth improved Anevia's quality of life, much as a prosthetic limb can improve the quality of one's life. Again, a good thing to do. A paladin thing to do.
Perhaps the difference is in viewpoints..
of Good, I see it as putting the community first, not individuals but the whole within the community.
of Evil, I see it as putting the self, or small group of individuals before the whole community.There is nothing that i could see as that would make this act good, assuming it was the artifact she sold (that id been thinking in all my interaction with you ksf)
If that's your viewpoint, that's your viewpoint.
I think the community and individuals are both important. And I think it's a not uncommon thing, too common a thing, to tell people who are on the edge of the community, in one way or another, that they have to accept their lot for the good of the community.
I also think selling off the sword, even if it was an artifact, does not prevent Irabeth from continuing to aid the community.
Selling just a non-artifact to help Anevia. That is a good act.
Well, I'm glad to hear you say that you think what Irabeth actually did in the AP is a good act. We can agree on that at least.
Hopping down to your next post:
That last bit is exactly it. Being a pally is not about the easy route, i see the selling off an artifact for material gain as not a good act. Its the easy route.
Where is there material gain in this?
Drinking a potion to ease what she considers suffering yet another could consider it blasphemy thinking Irabeth/Anevia knew better then whatever creator god made anevia as to what gender she should be.
I cant see any LG pally thinking that. Its the price for being the ultimate source of goodness and law and order in the universe.
I'm going to second what Orthos and Ambrosia Slaad said about this.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Let's switch gears from a second. Rather than heart surgery to save a life... what about heart surgery to close a small hole in the heart (which is a real-life condition)? People can live with that condition. People used to live decades with a hole in their heart (allowing unoxygenated and oxygenated blood to mix). It causes weakness and can prevent them from doing many things. But it's ultimately something you can live with. Would thus selling a holy sword to repair that hole in the heart be a selfish act? After all, it's not "needed" per say. But by repairing that hole in that person's heart, you are allowing that person to now live a healthy and full life which was denied them before that point.
How is repairing the gender dysfunction that Anevia felt, to the point that she went around disguised as a girl even after it was no longer required (ie, after she left town) any different than repairing a hole in the heart?
I mean, technically the same could be said for any healing. Take the elvish Riftwarden wizard in the game. He could live his life without his eyes. Plenty of people are able to live lives while blind. So is not the act of buying or acquiring a scroll of regeneration for him in fact a selfish and evil act? Is not healing this elf thus not wrong?
In fact, any act of healing could ultimately be considered selfish and evil. What right does mankind have to say "I deny thee, Pharsma!" and refuse to allow someone to die when they should have and instead continue to fight on? Paladins should not be allowed to heal! They should not be allowed to cure disease! Instead, their touch should spread woe and pain because ultimately they all will die and this is the will of the Gods. So is not healing ultimately an act of rebellion, chaos, and selfishness?
The moment any Paladin heals, he or she should fall. After all, they are rebelling against destiny itself.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I kinda want to make an Antipaladin who takes Tangent's entire post as 100% literal.
But 99% of the reason why I had her use an elixir was the fact that I think that the fact that the girdle of femininity/masculinity with its traditions of being a "Cursed Item" is pretty insulting, and I'm not a fan of them and have zero interest in letting a cursed gender changing item show up in an adventure.
It *is* a curse to most people. If Anevia put one on post-transformation, she would not be comfortable at all. Most people aren't happy with having their physical body's sex switched. I'm really confused as to why you find it 'insulting.'
Creative Director
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
But 99% of the reason why I had her use an elixir was the fact that I think that the fact that the girdle of femininity/masculinity with its traditions of being a "Cursed Item" is pretty insulting, and I'm not a fan of them and have zero interest in letting a cursed gender changing item show up in an adventure.It *is* a curse to most people. If Anevia put one on post-transformation, she would not be comfortable at all. Most people aren't happy with having their physical body's sex switched. I'm really confused as to why you find it 'insulting.'
I find it insulting in the same way I'd find an item that changes you from one ethnicity into another ethnicity being labeled as a cursed item would be insulting.
And I don't want to continue to make it seem that Paizo prefers to present the item as a cursed item, so it's not gonna be showing up in our products if I can help it.
I find it insulting in the same way I'd find an item that changes you from one ethnicity into another ethnicity being labeled as a cursed item would be insulting.
And I don't want to continue to make it seem that Paizo prefers to present the item as a cursed item, so it's not gonna be showing up in our products if I can help it.
Wait, like it's making the judgment that being female is a curse compared to being male? That's certainly one way to interpret it, but I don't think that's what makes that particular item 'cursed.'
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
He didn't say it would strengthen it a whole lot. It's like that goofy hippy bumper sticker: "Practice Random Acts of Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty" -- it doesn't have to be a major thing to make a difference.
