Does a Theologian get +2 caster levels to domain spells?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

8 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Thanks.

Grand Lodge

I do not know why they would not. Domain spells are a granted power of the domain.


Domains wrote:

Each domain grants a number of domain powers, dependent upon the level of the cleric, as well as a number of bonus spells. A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, a cleric can prepare one of the spells from her two domains in that slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a cleric can prepare it only in her domain spell slot. Domain spells cannot be used to cast spells spontaneously.

In addition, a cleric gains the listed powers from both of her domains, if she is of a high enough level. Unless otherwise noted, activating a domain power is a standard action.

You'll note that 'domain power' and 'domain spell' are separately defined terms.

(Also, when looking at domains you'll notice that it is divided into those two separate features.)

Example Domain: Travel wrote:

Granted Powers: You are an explorer and find enlightenment in the simple joy of travel, be it by foot or conveyance or magic. Increase your base speed by 10 feet.

Agile Feet (Su): As a free action, you can gain increased mobility for 1 round. For the next round, you ignore all difficult terrain and do not take any penalties for moving through it. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Dimensional Hop (Sp): At 8th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought.

Domain Spells: 1st—longstrider, 2nd—locate object, 3rd—fly, 4th—dimension door, 5th—teleport, 6th—find the path, 7th—greater teleport, 8th—phase door, 9th—astral projection.

Theologian does not get +2 CL to domain spells.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

What does hero lab say about that?

Grand Lodge

Vincent The Dark wrote:
What does hero lab say about that?

Hero Lab says it works but that is hardly proof.

I do, however, disagree that domain spells are not granted powers despite Aioran's parsing.


I'm with Aioran on this.

FAQ'd.

Liberty's Edge

No. If the theologian had been meant to gain +2 caster levels for divine spells they would have stated such. Granted powers are clearly defined, domain spells are also clearly defined and they are not the same thing.

Grand Lodge

ShadowcatX wrote:
No. If the theologian had been meant to gain +2 caster levels for divine spells they would have stated such.

Right...because the rules for Pathfinder are never ambiguous.

Quote:
Granted powers are clearly defined, domain spells are also clearly defined and they are not the same thing.

I understand the interpretation but the rules clearly define spells as power and they also clearly define domain spells as being granted by the domain.

I wouldn't mind an FAQ on this either, though.


This isn't ambiguous, granted power =/= domain spells.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The term "Granted Power" explicitly refers to "the stuff your domain gives that aren't spells." There is no gray area here.

Grand Lodge

I never really read it that way, and if that is the case then it isn't much of a benefit. I will concede the point, however.

Scarab Sages

Those 2 caster levels are the difference between a good archetype and a bad one, and all the rest really have something worth a missing domain. Really wish to have this answered in an FAQ.

Scarab Sages

Focused Domain:
A theologian chooses only one domain from her deity’s portfolio rather than the normal two domains. All level-dependent effects of the granted powers from the theologian’s domain function as if she were two cleric levels higher than her actual cleric level. This does not allow her to gain domain-granted powers earlier than normal. A theologian can prepare domain spells using her non-domain slots. She cannot use her spontaneous casting ability on domain spells, even if they are prepared in non-domain slots.

In all other respects, this works like and replaces the standard cleric domain ability.

Liberty's Edge

trollbill wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
Granted powers are clearly defined, domain spells are also clearly defined and they are not the same thing.

I understand the interpretation but the rules clearly define spells as power and they also clearly define domain spells as being granted by the domain.

I wouldn't mind an FAQ on this either, though.

Domain powers are clearly defined. You can try and play word games, but really, there are actually confusing issues that need FAQs.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

This does not allow her to gain domain-granted powers earlier than normal
That implies that it does, in fact, affect the caster level for the Domain spells. I have to say that I am with Vincent the Dark on this one. If it does not give that benefit, it is not a decent trade for losing a Domain.


Domain Powers and Domain Spells are two different things, even the ability makes the distinction between the two.


Powers do not equate to spells. Simple enough, IMHO.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You all missed the big power here.. the trade for the Domain is NOT a higher caster level at all.. its the I CAN PUT MY DOMAIN SLOTS IN MY REGULAR SLOTS bonus.. I cant see how you missed that.


Endoralis wrote:
You all missed the big power here.. the trade for the Domain is NOT a higher caster level at all.. its the I CAN PUT MY DOMAIN SLOTS IN MY REGULAR SLOTS bonus.. I cant see how you missed that.

I actually had missed that. Thank you for pointing that out, because it's fairly freakin' huge, given that there are some very potent domain spells to which Clerics don't normally gain access...

Silver Crusade

Xaratherus wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
You all missed the big power here.. the trade for the Domain is NOT a higher caster level at all.. its the I CAN PUT MY DOMAIN SLOTS IN MY REGULAR SLOTS bonus.. I cant see how you missed that.
I actually had missed that. Thank you for pointing that out, because it's fairly freakin' huge, given that there are some very potent domain spells to which Clerics don't normally gain access...

Like I dunno.. the PROTECTION DOMAIN...Or some choice others

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

"Granted Power" refers to the non-spell portions of the domain. The wording is as old as D&D 3.0, where the "Domain Powers" were literally called "Granted Powers."

Grand Lodge

ShadowcatX wrote:
trollbill wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
Granted powers are clearly defined, domain spells are also clearly defined and they are not the same thing.

I understand the interpretation but the rules clearly define spells as power and they also clearly define domain spells as being granted by the domain.

I wouldn't mind an FAQ on this either, though.

Domain powers are clearly defined. You can try and play word games, but really, there are actually confusing issues that need FAQs.

It's not word games. It's how I see the RAI. Regardless, I have already conceded the point.

Grand Lodge

Xaratherus wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
You all missed the big power here.. the trade for the Domain is NOT a higher caster level at all.. its the I CAN PUT MY DOMAIN SLOTS IN MY REGULAR SLOTS bonus.. I cant see how you missed that.
I actually had missed that. Thank you for pointing that out, because it's fairly freakin' huge, given that there are some very potent domain spells to which Clerics don't normally gain access...

It's important to note that when you use this ability you cannot convert those spells spontaneously into Cures.


trollbill: not all clerics are primarily healers. So this is only a downside for certain concepts, others may not care too much about it.

Scarab Sages

It would have been much easier to say Both instead of All domain powers, then there is less of a reason to debate. I can see how it is possible for it to be about the 2 powers given and not the spells, but if I see an FAQ giving +2 caster levels to the spells, I would be very happy.

Liberty's Edge

SeeleyOne wrote:

This does not allow her to gain domain-granted powers earlier than normal

That implies that it does, in fact, affect the caster level for the Domain spells. I have to say that I am with Vincent the Dark on this one. If it does not give that benefit, it is not a decent trade for losing a Domain.

How? What?

That sentence has absolutely nothing to do with domain spells. That simply states that while you gain +2 levels for using your domain powers, you do not, in fact, get them earlier than normal.

Example:

An animal domain cleric would still get his animal companion at level 4, but would have a druid level of 3, rather than 1, when he got the power because he's at +2 levels.

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