Vincent The Dark |
I really hope that I can cast a metamagic spell the round I start casting it but it seems like that is not the case.
What is a 1-round casting time? (that is mentioned in this text I guess is my question.)
Thanks
For a spell with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell.
Jeff Merola |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It takes you a full round to cast a metamagic spell that's not Quickened (unless the spell normally takes longer than a standard action to cast), so it takes your full turn (minus swift and free actions), but it goes off the same turn you cast it.
A one-round casting time takes your whole turn AND the rest of the round, only finishing when it becomes your turn again.
CRobledo |
Jeff is correct. Spontaneous casters's spells become a full-round action, which still go off the same turn they are cast, but you can't move and cast in the same turn.
If you want to specialize in a single spell, you can look into the feat Spontaneous Metafocus to ignore this restriction.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
It takes you a full round to cast a metamagic spell that's not Quickened (unless the spell normally takes longer than a standard action to cast), so it takes your full turn (minus swift and free actions), but it goes off the same turn you cast it.
Sorry to nitpick, but I think referring to a full-round action as "taking a full round" is (at least partially) the source of confusion/errors on this topic. "Takes a full round" really makes it sound like it takes the entire combat round before it's finished. (I think the rules might also use that phrasing to mean exactly that, but I don't have an example on hand; I might look that up later.)
Though it may seem picky, probably best to make sure to say "full-round action" when talking about that action type.
EDIT:
The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting if it comes between the time you started and the time you complete a spell (for a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to your casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or a contingent attack, such as a readied action).
Bolding mine. "One full round" means it takes until just before your next turn (and in the case of spellcasting, also requires a full-round action on the turn you start casting).
Also:When the rules refer to a "full round", they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round.
Don't you just love this game's legacy of different things with similar names? Can't imagine how the difference between "full round" and "full-round action" could cause confusion, right? ;)
The Morphling |
So, a "1 round" casting time (for, let's say, Summon Monster I) finishes at the beginning of your next turn, and the summoned creature doesn't appear until then.
But an empowered fireball (with a "full round action") casting time takes from the beginning to the end of your turn, and fires off before the next person acts.
Right?
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
So, a "1 round" casting time (for, let's say, Summon Monster I) finishes at the beginning of your next turn, and the summoned creature doesn't appear until then.
But an empowered fireball (with a "full round action") casting time takes from the beginning to the end of your turn, and fires off before the next person acts.
Right?
Correct.
The Morphling |
Man, they really hate the idea of a non-Summoner summoning anything, don't they? I hadn't realized that 1 round casting times had that much of a delay... eliminates any lingering desire I had to play an Abyssal Bloodline summoning-focused sorcerer. Ugh.
Wraith235 |
I was initially confused about this as well
but keep in mind ... when it comes to a summoner there is another way to cast 1 round cast time spells
there is an action called "Begin Full round casting" which is a Standard action ... then you expend another standard action on the following Round to complete the spell
CRobledo |
Before the Summoner class came along, this was the case for ALL conjurers. This is nothing new. The Summoner class just made it easier for people that wanted to do so (hence it's name, who knew!).
But, there are other ways around it for "traditional" conjurers, such as with Quicken Spell (what my bloatmage does) and feats like Acadamae Graduate:
Source Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide pg. 11
You have passed the grueling Test of Summoning and graduated from the Acadamae.Prerequisites: Specialist wizard 1st; cannot have conjuration as a forbidden school.
Benefit: Whenever you cast a prepared arcane spell from the conjuration (summoning) school that takes longer than a standard action to cast, reduce the casting time by one round (to a minimum casting time of one standard action). Casting a spell in this way is taxing and requires a Fortitude save (DC 15 + spell level) to resist becoming fatigued.
The Morphling |
Before the Summoner class came along, this was the case for ALL conjurers. This is nothing new. The Summoner class just made it easier for people that wanted to do so (hence it's name, who knew!).
But, there are other ways around it for "traditional" conjurers, such as with Quicken Spell (what my bloatmage does) and feats like Acadamae Graduate:
Quote:Source Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide pg. 11
You have passed the grueling Test of Summoning and graduated from the Acadamae.Prerequisites: Specialist wizard 1st; cannot have conjuration as a forbidden school.
Benefit: Whenever you cast a prepared arcane spell from the conjuration (summoning) school that takes longer than a standard action to cast, reduce the casting time by one round (to a minimum casting time of one standard action). Casting a spell in this way is taxing and requires a Fortitude save (DC 15 + spell level) to resist becoming fatigued.
Oooh. That's a cool feat.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
I was initially confused about this as well
but keep in mind ... when it comes to a summoner there is another way to cast 1 round cast time spells
there is an action called "Begin Full round casting" which is a Standard action ... then you expend another standard action on the following Round to complete the spell
Not to complete the spell, but to complete the full-round action.
Look:
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
It's only a full-round action that you can split up into a pair of standard actions. A summoning spell (or any other that takes 1 round) starts with a full-round action and then keeps going AFTER that action.
So you could certainly use this option to split up the full-round action that starts the casting of a summon spell, but once you've spent your second standard action, all you've completed is the full-round action, which does NOT complete the casting of a summon spell; it begins the casting of a summon spell.
Bizbag |
If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.)
If a spell's normal description says "1 round" or "1 full round", they mean the same thing: the Sorcerer is casting until the beginning of his next turn.
For a Metamagic spell modifying a "1 standard action"
Spell, it's a regular Full Round Action- the Sorcerer may take a 5' step, but the spell completes immediately.
LazarX |
Man, they really hate the idea of a non-Summoner summoning anything, don't they? I hadn't realized that 1 round casting times had that much of a delay... eliminates any lingering desire I had to play an Abyssal Bloodline summoning-focused sorcerer. Ugh.
Before there was such a thing as a Summoner, that was a limit that every Cleric, Wizard, Druid, and Sorcerer had to live with, and with very few exceptions still do. The Summmoner's standard action SLA's hardly represent the "norm".
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
勝20100 |
Metamagic Rules wrote:If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.)If a spell's normal description says "1 round" or "1 full round", they mean the same thing: the Sorcerer is casting until the beginning of his next turn.
(…)
I don’t really agree, because I think the 1 full round refer to a full round action; but I never saw any spell with “1 full round” as its casting time.
Bizbag |
I don’t really agree, because I think the 1 full round refer to a full round action; but I never saw any spell with “1 full round” as its casting time.
Fair enough; the point is, in a spell's description, "1 round" means from when the sorcerer starts casting until his next action. (I think PRG may have cleaned it up; 3.5 might have had a few spells that said "1 full round").
In the Metamagic rules, it specifically calls the Metamagic Full-Round Action as not being the same as the "1 round" casting time. So if a Sorcerer casts a Maximized Fireball, it goes off immediately. If he casts Extended Summon Monster IV, he spends his turn casting the spell, and it goes off after his second action is expended (but not right before his third turn).
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Sniggevert |
IS that feat Acadamae Grad legal for PFS?
Yes...provided you have the Curse of the Crimson Throne player's guide.
And you can quicken a 1 round casting time spell...
Quicken Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast spells in a fraction of the normal time.
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 round or 1 full-round action cannot be quickened.
A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
That line is actually kind of weird... what you can't quicken is something with a casting time of:
1) 1 round
or
2) 1 full-round action
A casting time of 1 round is longer than 1 full-round action, and therefore can't be quickened. So why even mention "1 round" as one of the things the casting time can't be longer than?
Sniggevert |
That line is actually kind of weird... what you can't quicken is something with a casting time of:
1) 1 round
or
2) 1 full-round actionA casting time of 1 round is longer than 1 full-round action, and therefore can't be quickened. So why even mention "1 round" as one of the things the casting time can't be longer than?
I agree, they're two different length of times, and they should have left out #2. But they do call out both lengths as being eligible in the feat.
That being said, they've also used quickened 1 round spells in in print and scenarios, so even with the odd language the intent appears that quickened summons spells are legitimate.
Sniggevert |
I think it's because in 3.5, some spells were full round actions to cast, and others were 1 round actions. There aren't anymore, they're just 1 round, but the language stayed.
Well, spontaneous casters using most metamagics are full round actions to cast still. The language is wonky, but intent really does imply both are eligible for quickening as they're both even called out in the feat.
Of course, the special note does mean that spontaneous casters couldn't quicken a summoning spell...interesting.
blahpers |
Yes, you can quicken both "1 round" and "1 full round" spells.
Yes and yes. Neither type has a longer casting time than the "longer than 1 full-round action" limitation of Quicken Spell, therefore both can be quickened.
This means that a sorcerer could cast an empowered quickened magic missile as a swift action. Likewise, as multiple metamagic feats don't push the casting time longer than 1 full-round action, a sorcerer could cast an empowered silent stilled quickened magic missile as a swift action.
—Sean K Reynolds, 06/30/11